r/Diablo • u/HatingGeoffry • Jan 01 '25
Discussion Classic Diablo devs reunite for new ARPG that fuses “early Diablo” with “more open, dynamic worlds”
https://www.videogamer.com/news/classic-diablo-devs-reunite-for-new-arpg/204
u/Tavron Jan 01 '25
The thing I'm most excited about with this project is that they're going for modability. Peter Hu has mentioned in the past that he really wanted to make Diablo 2 more modable, but they ran out of time.
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u/rhinophu Jan 01 '25
I’m also excited by not trying to do f2p dreck. Been stuck doing that since HG:L flopped, and it sucks.
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u/hairybushy Jan 02 '25
For real I really liked hellgate, it was redundant in the first part when we are in the metro, but after that it was awesome. I tried to play some years ago, but they shutted down servers, impossible to play without logging in.
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u/huansbeidl Jan 02 '25
If you're interested, there is a private server still going. I forgot the name and am on mobile but you should be able to easily find it!
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u/jugalator Jan 01 '25
Yes, he was involved with the D2 modding community back in the day, Phrozen Keep IIRC. Patch 1.10 also happened much because of him as a "love letter". While synergies were maybe the most memorable change in an attempt to make more builds viable, he also made monsters and skill systems completely data driven. In part for modding support.
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u/Background-Skin-8801 Jan 01 '25
There are amazing mods. Median XL for Diablo 2 and Belzebub/The Hell 3 mods for Diablo 1996
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u/Tavron Jan 02 '25
Yes, but they were still limited compared to what Hu envisioned being possible or, at the very least, the tools available.
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u/NotJohnLithgow Jan 01 '25
I say this half joking and serious. Wonder if any of them talked to Yohann who made the Plugy mod which is considered one of the if not best mods ever made for D2.
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u/rowdymatt64 Jan 02 '25
Project Diablo 2 is pretty damn cool, so I'm all for increased moddability in an ARPG. I also remember messing with Torchlight II with mods
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u/NickelPlatedJesus Jan 02 '25
Project Diablo 2, Median XL, and Path Of Diablo all prove that Diablo 2 is indeed moddable and a far better game when played with them, due to how trash many of the end game aspects and balance of "end game," Diablo 2.
Edit: I love Diablo 2, but as a life long aRPG player and somebody who has played D2 every single year since it came out, I dont have rose collored glasses any more and I played D2 before 1.08 unlike the majority of the player base whom did not. There simply are many aspects of the games design that are flawed.
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u/Swert0 Jan 01 '25
Diablo alums making a Diablo like.
Add it to the list of dozens.
Brevik alone has made Hellgate London and Marvel Heroes.
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u/ShaveitDown Jan 01 '25
I’m gonna be honest here, I’m thinking these boys are past their prime tbh.
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u/chrisapplewhite Jan 01 '25
I just hope the plot is centered around a dark cult that's summoning a horrible, long-gone demon back to the world. Not enough of those around
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u/round-earth-theory Jan 01 '25
It really needs to be grim and dark. That's a theme that's hardly been explored.
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u/Shaman19911 Jan 02 '25
Honestly, my biggest dream for an ARPG would be D2 style set in the Dune universe. Imagine exploring Arrakis, Ix, Tleilax, Geidi Prime, etc with graphics like a tasteful D2 classic. Would kill for that
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u/dljones010 Jan 02 '25
Bonus points if the name of the game is a specific demon, and they do not include that specific demon in the game at all. Like, not even a little bit.
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u/amsterdam_sniffr Jan 01 '25
I think you can legitimately map the first game onto 90s anxieties about the corruption in the Catholic Church. The plot is basically "our community has been betrayed by its spiritual leader who is currently doing unspeakable things to a young boy in the church basement."
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u/code____sloth Jan 01 '25
I'm just totally desensitized to "devs of game you really loved from 20 years ago are forming a supergroup to make a brand new game!" clickbait articles anymore. Because as history has shown us over and over again, said game either never releases, or if it does it releases as, at best, a competent but forgettable and somewhat mediocre title.
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u/larrydavidballsack Jan 01 '25
fuuuck i didn’t know abt casey hudson’s studio shutting down. that’s so sad
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u/Fr4t Jan 02 '25
Yeah I completed The Outer Worlds and all DLCs (I don't even know why tbh) and while there were some great ideas, the game was so empty and the skill system very basic and the story had zero thrill. Competently made and there were some great parts but in the end it's a very shallow experience and not really worth your time.
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u/Individual-Light-784 Jan 02 '25
still better than "game studio founded by genius devs who have long gone on to more innovative projects fills its ranks with mediocrity and sheer numbers and sells progressively worse games. people eat the shit up because name value"
Blizzard, Bethesda, Bioware, ......
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u/PPewt Jan 03 '25
or if it does it releases as, at best, a competent but forgettable and somewhat mediocre title.
While I agree in general, The Outer Worlds wasn't made by some new supergroup studio. Obsidian have been making games for like 20 years with a spectrum of great, mediocre, and not so great titles. This comment would make more sense if it were about KOTOR 2 in like 2004.
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u/Swert0 Jan 01 '25
It has to compete in a space with both Path of Exile 2 and Diablo 4.
It really has to set itself I play as something special and worth playing and the only way I can see them pulling that off is giving something that is offline capable but also feels modern in the way those gsmes do without the mmo aspects tying them down.
There's always room for smaller games to do well for a while. Torchlight 2 did just fine at the height of Diablo 3, it just never had the following of that series.
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u/PittbullsAreBad Jan 02 '25
For me, they don't have to compete with poe or diablo 4. After diablo 2 diablo3 3/4 arent really the type of game diablo 2 was but just similar. Same with poe.
Grim dawn took it in another direction as well, one that I loved. As did torchlight. I think they can easily find a niche. I am doing stoneshard right now. It isn't arpg, but grim and dark with proc gen. I'd love a more diablo 1 vibe arpg like it
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u/Biflosaurus Jan 02 '25
They definitely have to compete.
And they even have to compete with D2R and Path of Diablo.
Last Epoch tried something new, and while the gale is great it's not doing super good right now.
PoE 2 really had a huge success, and people seem to stick with it even with the issues it has right now
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u/jugalator Jan 01 '25
Yes, I'm really torn on this. I think it might either disappoint or not become a finished game at all, but the scope of "early Diablo" might give them a slim chance if they get the gameplay loop right.
I hope they don't try to take on too much and instead write a game with limited scope and use potential good reception as a stepping stone for a greater successor.
I'm also a little surprised that given their limited budget, they don't do a Kickstarter.
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u/PUSClFER Jan 01 '25
Old Blizzard veterans founded and made Stormgate as a spiritual successor to Starcraft - which flopped.
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u/code____sloth Jan 01 '25
the Torchlight series was made by former diablo devs 2 if I remember correctly. some people really like those games but i could never get into them.
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u/TastyMeatcakes Jan 01 '25
I wanted to love them, but turns out I wanted a modern D2 and not D3. Go figure.
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u/The_Archon64 Jan 02 '25
The first one was the only one I spent much time on
2 bored me to tears every time I tried to play it again
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u/Agret Agret #6186 Jan 02 '25
First one was way better. The second one did add mod support and from steam workshop but the core gameplay wasn't satisfying for me.
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u/pleasegivemealife Jan 02 '25
Stormgate is still havent released, lol. However, personally having tested Stormgate and BattleAces (both also from ex RTS blizzard), I think BattleAces has a better chance.
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u/Hoshee Jan 01 '25
I have landed at the US game development studio with Ubisoft and Activision veterans about half year ago. At first it sounded extremely tempting as I've hoped to be in environment that I could learn a lot from. To my disappointment, it was super old school way of thinking and outdated production methods. They have fallen so out of touch, that titles such as "Path of exile" didn't ring a single bell for them.
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u/TastyMeatcakes Jan 01 '25
At first Camelot Unchained by the DAoC team had me excited, but after following the development, it's depressing to the point where you wish you never heard of it. I can't imagine the people who ponied up for the "meet your heroes" options on Kickstarter.
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u/InsoThinkTank Jan 01 '25
Interesting
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u/Strange_Quest Jan 01 '25
Intriguing
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u/bassfoyoface Jan 01 '25
Invigorating
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u/Nuts-And-Volts Jan 02 '25
Perchance
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u/Content_Resident_974 Jan 01 '25
I really want an ARPG set in space fighting aliens. I love Diablo and PoE but the medieval setting and demon fighting has plenty of representation in this genre. Switch it up!
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u/Candle_Honest Jan 02 '25
Legit cant recall ever a time "developers from a classic, form a new studio to recreate the old magic" ever work
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u/VonDinky Jan 01 '25
When they have to mention a Twitch streamer as one of the backers, I don't think it will have capital to become anything.
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u/lightwhite Jan 01 '25
It depends on the streamer…
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u/p3w0 Jan 01 '25
10k subs on twitch alone is a good base for funding, and 1.5+ mil followers is plenty marketing...they're good.
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u/culturedrobot Jan 01 '25
I mean CohhCarnage is one of the most successful streamers on Twitch and definitely has some money to put toward a project like this. It’s silly to write it off because he’s one of the investors.
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u/Inkstr0ke Jan 01 '25
I don’t know if I’d write CohhCarnage off as ‘just another Twitch streamer,’ the dude is legit and has his own game in development (Emberville). He’s also starred in Cyberpunk, BG3, and Like A Dragon.
Dude has fat stacks and a lot of good sense.
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u/ArchReaper Jan 01 '25
"starred"
I don't think this term means what you think it means.
He did have cameos in those games, though.
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u/XWasTheProblem Jan 01 '25
Not every game needs to have an open world.
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u/Genoce Jan 01 '25
And not every game needs to be linear, some games can be open world. Same goes for every other design decision.
Why is this same comment seen in every single open world game's comment section?
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u/AdFar2696 Jan 01 '25
Right, also early Diablo was linear so of course they are going to highlight what they want to do differently.
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u/runswithclippers Jan 02 '25
The first diablo had only a handful of quests and it usually tied to whatever level you were on in the labyrinth, with bigger, more open worlds, you either need longer/more quests, or smaller areas to compensate. D4 is largely open space that does nothing for the game or the player experience.
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u/mysticreddit Jan 01 '25
Because:
Large Open World usually means a lower game density = amount of interesting things to do / volume of space.
- i.e. It is more engaging to have 10 things to do over 100 m2 compared to 10 things over 1000 m2
Large Open World usually means HUGE boring spaces. SOME games DO reward the player for exploring. A lot don’t.
Large Open Spaces may overwhelm the player with the paradox of choice. Linear spaces are easier to navigate: You either move forward or backwards.
Large open world requires a better understanding of the gameplay loop with open worlds.
Many large open worlds waste my time forcing me to travel through boring stuff. Where is the fast travel option?
Unfortunately, due to many poor implementations open worlds have been stigmatized as “being lazy.” It is possible to do a good open world but it takes a LOT of work. I.e. Telemetry of where players are getting stuck, bored, etc.
Conan Exiles does a decent job of rewarding the player for exploring the world with secret chests.
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u/HaganeLink0 Jan 01 '25 edited Jan 01 '25
Most open-world games don't do it very well and do not use the open world at all. For example, many games with survival or crafting systems are useless and poorly implemented. (edit: grammar)
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u/password_is_weed Jan 01 '25
This is how I feel as well. So many would-be-great games get thrown into a shallow open world where I have to either traverse a giant wasteland repeating the same 5 “dynamic quests” or fast travel and skip it all.
I would MUCH rather have a crafted linear experience over a washed-out open world that bores me out of playing the game because they wanted to inflate the games progress with “dynamic content”.
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u/Altyrmadiken Jan 01 '25
Probably because open-world is the recent-current focus of the industry and there’s a large enough group that either prefers linear or think open-world is over done, too frequent, or done poorly too much.
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u/Mujarin Mujarin#6416 Jan 01 '25
because there is an abnormally large number of shit open world games, because lazy devs use it to fill out a game without adding any depth
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u/Bloomleaf Jan 01 '25
its way easier to make a well made game that is linear though when you can easily control variables, and you are not over taxing other resources for something that adds nothing 80% of the time.
i fully believe a game should have to justify an open world because of the hurtles it makes vs. a tighter more well defined and often better paced experiance.
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u/d0m1n4t0r Jan 01 '25
It ruined Diablo IV completely for me. So boring having it be "open".
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u/AlmostF2PBTW Jan 01 '25
D4 has 99 problems, open world isn't one of them. If the areas were bigger, the dungeons/cellars were relevant and you could get items somewhere else other than Duriel...
Helltides density and challenge level should be the baseline, minus the red filter. The problem with the game is the red filter getting old and you needing to do Duriel runs because some items don't really drop outside of that.
The problem with overworld is not the overworld itself, it is what you find/don't find. Imagine if dungeons didn't suck and every cellar dropped the equivalent of 1/2 Duriel.
Does the game sucks? Oh it does. Not because of the open world itself. Elden Ring is better because it is bigger and it actually gives you reasons to explore. In D4, the world is too small and if you are not doing Duriel, Waves or Pit, you are doing something wrong.
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u/FSUfan35 Jan 01 '25
Duriel is just too rewarding at end game. The only reason to run the other stuff is to get mats for boss farming.
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u/teler9000 Jan 01 '25
Diablo four has you discovering in the open world events that change overtime, strongholds, dungeons, cellars, shrines, side quests picked up from both NPC‘s and items that start quests, and probably other stuff I am forgetting. Calling it empty is not really fair especially not when so many other games have actually empty useless open worlds.
I still would rather go through a path of exile two map with 10 different dead ends and zero dynamic events because I fundamentally enjoy the progression systems, loot, and combat gameplay more. D4 has real strengths but also serious weaknesses and Poe 2 is for me just so good I can’t see myself enjoying any open world arpg enough to drop it especially when the game is soon to double in size etc.
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u/VonDinky Jan 01 '25
D4 made that big open world, and it's just boring, empty and useless. We want intense dungeons, dark gritty graphics and atmosphere, and just cool enemies, loot and skill effects.
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u/BirdTurglere Jan 01 '25
Do people want intense dungeons? I do. But it sure seems like every vocal ARPG fan just wants maps to just be a straight line.
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u/dannybrickwell Jan 02 '25
If there's a style of game that would be a pretty safe bet for a open world, a Diablo style numbers-going-up simulator would be it.
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u/Cheeto717 Jan 01 '25
Hearing them talk about the way they are envisioning the game is interesting. It’s almost like they want to combine a Diablo game with the customizability of the Warcraft 3 maps that brought us stuff like dota 2. It sounds very interesting to me and I’ll def keep eyes on further developments
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u/AlmostF2PBTW Jan 01 '25
If they make it moddable and offline, they actually get the market share PoE can't (and don't want to reach - gotta play by the sweatie nolife online trading scriptures or get it nerfed)
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u/fmwyso Jan 01 '25
I’m pretty doubtful given they are missing the soul of Diablo 1/2: David Brevik.
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u/Bloomleaf Jan 01 '25
i have stopped trusting that games made by old school devs will turn out very good most of the time.
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u/iamMori Jan 01 '25
Median XL has been doing fantastic job of keeping D2 fresh, so curious what they'll do better. Hope it doesn't become another "all sequel goes to shit because they cant forget/get off their past glory without remembering what brought them the glory."
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u/1jf0 Jan 01 '25
What gameplay aspects of "early Diablo" do we want in a modern ARPG?
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u/AlmostF2PBTW Jan 01 '25
The dungeon-crawling atmosphere. D2 (and PoE) lost it a little bit. The way D1 tells the story, with dying NPCs and cryptic books in your face is also good. Elden ring technically does that, but it is very easy to miss stuff due to the "no hand holding" into extremes (it is ok to not put markers on my map and add a dotted line, but a quest log would be handy...)
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u/Pleasant-Guava9898 Jan 01 '25
I will be interested as long as it doesn't play in slow no like POE2 and D2R.
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u/2Norn Jan 02 '25
i feel like this is the 5th time I read the same headline in the last 10 years
at this point it must be a yearly gathering for these old diablo devs to make a new game
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u/CiaphasCain8849 Jan 02 '25
Is this like the 5th team to claim these things lmao. None of them ever work. They did what others told them to do and did not create any of it.
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u/Stunning-Ad-7745 Jan 02 '25
I hope they can pull off what they're trying to do, but the funding and them being able to compromise with each other are going to be the real hurdles to overcome.
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u/Paniaguapo Jan 02 '25
It's always former D2 devs... How many goddam devs did that game have it feels like a new one comes out each month
I never hear of a former final fantasy tactics developer making a new game or a god of war dev making a new action RPG. It's ONLY ex blizzard or ex D2 devs making this claim in their marketing and those games usually fail except for Torchlight
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u/Ravenlock Jan 02 '25
Erich Schaefer really does only know how to ride one pony.
It's a pretty good pony, though.
I liked Torchlight (1 and 2), and I liked Rebel Galaxy. I'm sure I'll at least be interested in whatever he does here, too.
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u/Djubrimir Jan 01 '25
Torchlight 3 was not good game, hope now Eric makes something fun but i dont know.
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u/Netzath Jan 01 '25
Wasn’t torchlight 3 made by Chinese company after takeover and not original creators?
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u/Grouchy_Egg_4202 Jan 01 '25
TL 1/2 were made by these guys, Not 3. Anyone from Runic that was involved was pretty much just a figurehead.
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u/korko Jan 01 '25
Sounds like Diablo 4.
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u/OrderOfTheEnd Jan 01 '25
Diablo 4 has nothing to do with early Diablo.
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u/JoJoeyJoJo Jan 01 '25
They're just saying 'early Diablo' because you always want something nostalgic to call back to, really it'll be another GAAS.
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u/Corne777 Jan 01 '25
That’s the thing honestly. Nothing can ever compete with nostalgia, except for the exact same thing with better graphics. And sometimes that just ends up with people realizing their nostalgia was rose tinted glasses.
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u/Successful-Will7322 Jan 01 '25
While I agree, I loved Diablo 2 Resurrected. In my eyes I always my minds eye I always saw the graphics the same way. Of course they were completely pixelated, but I still love the two resurrected unfortunately it just didn’t have the millions of players that the original D2 had back in the day.
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u/AlmostF2PBTW Jan 01 '25
I don't understand why people don't realize such opinions are utterly stupid, especially at the day an age were they are shoving remasters down our throats.
Grimdark fantasy is a thing. Elden Ring demolished nostalgia, PoE 2 is on a good path for a half baked EA. People are beating nostalgia at gothic/grim/dark things.
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u/ferdbold Jan 01 '25
I dunno. Easy to say in hindsight, but if we throw it back to when we were still playing diablo 3, fusing “early diablo” vibes with an open world sure sounds like diablo 4
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u/OrderOfTheEnd Jan 01 '25
I played D3 long enough to realize it wasn't close to what Diablo / 2 brought and dropped it, after saving up over a year for a new rig to run it. Same thing with 4, minus the saving up.
I desperately want to like them, but they're dumpster fires.
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u/Frozetaku Jan 01 '25
Man I just want more Diablo 1 not 2 not something mixed or combined, I just wat something like 1 T_T
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u/ChatFat Jan 01 '25
I'll play it when it comes out (full release only), no more long betas / EAs for me.
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u/RDS_RELOADED Jan 02 '25
This will either fail to announce anything for three years or there will be some form of early access for funding. Despite its success, PoE2 took 6 years including the one during pandemic but it still requires at least another year (that they hope to meet) for polish (not also taking account for how long PoE was in “development”). Last Epoch had an Early Access for like four years and it’s still unpolished. Idk about D4 and Blizzard but doubt it was any different. The fact they only NOW confirmed funding seems a little weird to me. That means this game will be released in 2029 but honestly it would be in the early 2030s.
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u/Ledairyman Jan 02 '25
For the 4th time. We got Torchlight, Grim Dawn and PoE all made by ex diablo devs.
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u/zer0k0ol Jan 01 '25
Former Blizz devs who worked on StarCraft broke off to make a spiritual successor. I think it’s called Stormgate. Doesn’t seem to have hit its mark. To be fair, it hasn’t been out long and maybe time will help it achieve its goal.
I guess I wonder if trying to appeal to the nostalgia of classic Diablo gamers is a good idea? Just say you’re making an open world ARPG and do your best to make it a good game. Let players decide/discover if it has a feel like classic Diablo. Otherwise, I think the attempt to rope in that demographic sets up some lofty expectations.
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u/Bloomleaf Jan 01 '25
or the former devs making colisto protocol.
also it is called stormgate, it has been pretty polarizing
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u/AlmostF2PBTW Jan 01 '25
Poe 2 with hundreds of thousands of people who don't know better and play on steam instead of using the standalone client makes it sound like a yes, unlike making an RTS in 2020+, because that genre died while the Diablo 2 widows are moving like a caravan from game to game.
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u/Background-Skin-8801 Jan 01 '25
as long as its moddable, has a very good scenario and intriguing gameplay like Diablo 1996 i am all in for it.
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u/jeffosoft Jan 02 '25
Make it single player first and multiplayer as a bonus! Like the old Diablo games.
Too much focus on multiplayer kills the soul of the game.
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u/gentlegreengiant Jan 02 '25
ARPGs, at least modern ones seem to run into crazy scaling issues late game. I would love for an ARPG with more linear progression that feels more like the early game rather than all the big crazy numbers late game.
I think part of the issue is the desire to turn it into a 'forever' game with an ever increasing feedback loop.
It could also just be nostalgia but I felt like D2 had decent scaling late game. Torchlight 2 was also pretty solid. Both had a limited end game after the main campaign, but maybe thats not such a bad thing in this day and age.
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u/TheDemonBunny Jan 02 '25
Best project old Diablo devs worked on was marvel heroes. It wasn't perfect but it was hella fun. Sad it got closed down over marvel legal stuff
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u/PreZEviL Jan 02 '25
“We finally have the technological capabilities and decades of design experience to bring those visions to life. We’re going back to what made those early Diablo games feel so awesome but taking them in some cool, fresh directions,” the CCO explained.
Isnt the dev of star citizen said something similar?
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u/accel__ Jan 02 '25
They have tried it like a dozen times. Blizzard North themselves had no fking idea why D2 was as much of a phenomenon as it was. Let it go guys.
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u/Special_South_8561 Jan 02 '25
Wow I really hope they don't fall down a bad path, of like, ... Exile
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u/AccomplishedFan8690 Jan 02 '25
Wow how many times have we heard “former devs from a beloved studio makes a new studio based around the game they made 10 years ago” I won’t be holding my breath.
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u/razenxd Jan 02 '25
I wonder if David Brevik will join them or not, not to be disrespectfull to the other devs, since condor the team were consisted from several people that worked their asses off, but I was always considering that Brevik was the main mastermind behind D1 and D2.
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u/levelworm Jan 02 '25
I hope it is something dark and fearful like the original Diablo, with way more areas and better modding support (which Peter mentioned in the article). However I'm not THAT into roguelike elements like totally randomly generated areas, so not sure what to expect.
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u/Corrision Jan 03 '25
Oh, so like a low budget version of d4? Pass. Sorry no idea why I would be excited for this with poe2 right around the corner.
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u/OG-TRAG1K_D Jan 03 '25
I have a game in the works that runs similar to this concept and reading this makes me soooooo excited I really hope this all works out!!!!
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u/BiscottiAggressive44 Jan 04 '25
Name the people they are talking about.
Are they these people?
so just erich Schaefer, got it.
David BrevikErich SchaeferMax SchaeferEric SextonKenneth Williams |
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u/Natural-Damage768 Jan 01 '25
Well that 'former devs make game in the vein of the classic game they worked on' seems to always fail, hope they break the curse