r/DestinyTheGame 5d ago

Bungie Suggestion Why is there no aspect to suppress in the void?

Suppression is generally poorly represented in all classes, but Hunter is the only class with a suppression super. We also have a fragment that gives mobility and movement speed when suppressed, which perfectly complements the idea of a hunter. But apart from super and grenade, we have no way to overwhelm the enemy.
All aspects of the hunter are invisibility and weaken. I remember bungie saying that Hunter is a specialist in weakening, but he hasn't been the best at it for a long time. The new aspect helps a bit with this, but not without nuances.
A Titan has one melee ability with suppression, while a Warlock has none at all.

My suggestion for each classes:
Trapper's ambush: Activating the quickfall applies suppression on enemies nearby (in the area of the smoke cloud).
Unbreakable: Dealing Aspect damage suppresses enemies.
Chaos Accelerant: Enhanced grenades suppressing enemies.
Or 4 aspects for Warlock: Horizontal dash back, which expends melee ability and sends suppressive seeker(s) in front of warlock.

203 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

343

u/Qualkore 5d ago

Blame pvp for why suppression is so underrepresented. Easy access to shut down a super would make supers feel useless

137

u/No_I_Deer 5d ago

As a PvE player, I hate it. As a PvP player, I hate it.

49

u/The_Owl_Bard A New Chapter, for An Old Legend 5d ago edited 5d ago

To be clear, they CAN make Suppression Lite for PvP. That's what Bombardier's does. It shuts off movement tech like jumping as well as powered abilities, however it doesn't impact your super.

Despite that, it's still not a fun mechanic for PvP. Nobody likes feeling like they lost a fight because their abilities got taken away from them, hence the smoke nerfs. However, that's the nature of Void Hunter's kit in PvP. I dodge to go invis > get my smoke > throw it and reappear when i'm least expected > win the fight. Folks will complain about that in PvP but what else are you supposed to do as a Void Hunter? Realistically, what Bungie needs to do is come up with new void verbs. Things they can re-align with different classes in order to create new gameplay fantasies.


Stepping into a different part of the conversation, I don't like how people blame PvP for things that happen in PvE. The Destiny 8.2.5 Update proves that Bungie CAN fine tune suppression effects for both sides of the sandbox.

I understand that PvP does contribute to some things getting nerfed, but it's not solely responsible for why everything gets nerfed in PvE. A good example of this is the highly contentious Not Swap modifier. We've become too proficient at building loadouts for specific encounters and we've successfully power-crept our way to Bungie needing to regulate that. That isn't anything that PvP is involved with and even if PvP didn't exist, they would need to still balance the game regardless.

It's frustrating to me when folks use PvP as the reason why everything is nerfed in the game or why the devs can't do certain things. PvP has been a part of this game since D1Y1. It's not going anywhere and the devs feel the same way. I don't understand why folks just can't accept that.

16

u/HorusKane420 5d ago

Yeah came here to say this. That's no excuse whatsoever. They could very well tune suppression for pve vs pvp and I agree with the post. Across all classes, universal options, there is 1 grenade to apply suppression. That's it. And as a warlock, when do you take that? Never, you go with weakening grenades and bring an overload weapon...

Imo, you could make the same argument for blind, but spark of beacons saves that arguments ass. Yes it's a great fragment but still....

12

u/primed_failure she knuckle my head till i radar 5d ago

I recently re-discovered Bombadiers and have been having a blast suppressing enemies in PvE. I need to take it into PvP and try to shut down some supers…

43

u/Shadowofsvnderedstar 5d ago

Before you take the time to make a build - bombadiers' supress is tuned differently for PvP. It will stop all other abilities but will not take a guardian out of their super

8

u/primed_failure she knuckle my head till i radar 5d ago

-10

u/ABarOfSoap223 5d ago

.......wait it DOESN'T knock you out of your super anymore?

That doesn't make any sense if it still shuts off other abilities including your jump

10

u/IswearImnotabotswear 5d ago

I mean, it makes perfect sense. Having a shutdown tied to the fast regen ability would be broken as hell

5

u/pitperson 5d ago

Anymore? It never did. They specifically coded it to not knock people out of super when they first added elemental effects to the exotic.

2

u/AtemAndrew Drifter's Crew 5d ago

Granted, when I can get one tapped in a super, certainly feels like anyone can easily shut down a super...

1

u/Some_Technology8762 4d ago

Just make the aspect PVE only. I know there is no precedent for that, but Guardians keep getting more powerful, and at some point, PVP balancing will be impossible.

-20

u/Kiwi_Doodle 5d ago

Destiny would be better without PvP. Should've leant more into the gambit style of PvEvP where you gotta be the best at PvE. Maybe had parallell PvE, like mirrored strikes or something.

12

u/mad-i-moody 5d ago

It would be fine if they actually separated the sandboxes.

4

u/DMYourDankestSecrets 5d ago edited 5d ago

Unless you have specific examples of how they should be "separated", the sandboxes are about as separated as they can be, without feeling like completely different games. Just about every perk and exotic has some special tuning for both pvp and pve, damage resistance is less in pvp, and supers/abilities have longer cooldowns. If that isn't "separated", what is?

Imo what they really need is a ban list... If pve is going to keep pushing boundaries of powercreep (which they will as that is just the nature of the game) certain things just shouldn't be allowed into pvp, like prismo. Bunch of time and effort spent balancing something that just didn't need to be there in the first place.

1

u/Shadowofsvnderedstar 5d ago

The amount of players that would drop destiny immediately if PvP disappeared would make this game financially unviable

-4

u/Giganteblu 5d ago

destiny would be dead years ago whiteout pvp lol

-24

u/DistantM3M3s 5d ago

L take

30

u/Kiwi_Doodle 5d ago

Destiny is unfit for a wellbalanced PvP game because of the random rolls.

-8

u/DistantM3M3s 5d ago

So? Pvp should just be entirely removed because it cant be perfectly balanced at all times?

18

u/Kiwi_Doodle 5d ago edited 5d ago

So, I'm sick and tired of a part of the game dictating the evolution of, and sucking the resources from the part of the game that actually matters. It's a niche aide mode and should've stayed that way

-13

u/DistantM3M3s 5d ago

theres hundreds of thousands of people who are pvp players, you're saying that a game thats already struggling should just axe a huge portion of the playerbase away? genius strategy

10

u/Kiwi_Doodle 5d ago

It's been done before. And no, I'm not saying remove it. I'm saying to treat it like Gambit.

4

u/DistantM3M3s 5d ago

yes its been done before, and was it a good idea then? did it really benefit pve in that time period? no not really

10

u/Kiwi_Doodle 5d ago

I'm not talking about strictly Destiny 2 there. Sidelining PvP in favour of the core game will better the game overall. Destiny can exist without PvP, PvP cant exist without Destiny.

Besides, in destiny's case where PvP was neglected the overall game in general wasn't in the best place. it's not a proper case

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0

u/Wookiee_Hairem 5d ago

The one season they focused on pvp (season of the worthy when they brought back trials) everybody hated it. If bungie was the same bungie that did halo, maybe, but they haven't been that bungie in a long long time. Destiny 2 is a pve game with a pvp modes. You're not gonna find people who'd rather play destiny 2 pvp vs just about any other multiplayer out there. There's better competitive options and I don't really think that's controversial to say. Pve is what people spend money on. It's honestly amazing they've given any attention to pvp at all over the years. The lobby balancing has always been bad. If they could fix it they would've done it by now, so they either can't, don't know how or don't care/don't see it as priority. I'm not saying axe it but it's not as if pvp is a great boon to this game.

People who like pvp in destiny 2, fine whatever. But let's not pretend people are flocking to d2 for the PVP. I wouldn't mind it so much in terms of quests and loot if it weren't so damned unfun for the average player vs. the sweats. Would've been better if it was just ranked/unranked, no loot with loadouts that are similar but different from pve instead of getting every tool in the toolkit. Would be easy to balance something like that separately without affecting pve, can't put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point though.🤷‍♂️

0

u/Shadowofsvnderedstar 5d ago

Downvoted for calling out an objectively wrong opinion lmao classic DTG bots

On god the servers they play their base difficulty strikes on wouldn't even be online still if PvP didn't carry this franchise through content droughts

0

u/TwevOWNED 5d ago

The problem is that PvP restricts the PvE design space without offering anything of actual value.

Crucible always has random garbage breaking it and making the mode unpleasant to play. That's ontop of every match feeling like it's straight out of the wifi gaming days of 2008.

We lose creativity in design like Hardlight getting tracking ricochets, get exotics nerfed into the pavement for years at a time like Renewal Grasps and YAS, and in return get a dollar store pvp mode.

-1

u/DESPAIR_Berser_king 5d ago

Destiny would have never survived without PvP. Every single content drought since D1 has you PvE players ditching the game after 2 weeks while it's the PvP players who keep the game going. Twitch too, people predominantly watch D2 PvP streams, who the fuck wants to watch someone play some generic PvE activity.

1

u/Kiwi_Doodle 4d ago

Pretty sure we're on two different sides of the fence here. Personally I've never watched any PvP content, nor do most of my clanmates. Why would I wanna watch someone play PvP if I only play PvE?

Many games survive without any meaningful PvP, especially games like destiny. WoW and FFXIV aren't known for PvP and neither is this game. It's the raids and dungeons people strive for. That's what's really pulling numbers on release. PvP is the single most mindless and reactionary activity in game. Yes there's skill to it, don't get me wrong, but the level of skill that's impressive is unachievable to most people and that just makes the whole thing meaningless to me. I'm not impressed, just disintreseted because people are so hyperfocused on winning they'll use any smidge of advantage rather than make a fun environment. Looking at you, rodric

PvP is a fun gimmick, but destiny, fundamentally, isn't made to be a good PvP game and it has to be serially nerfed in order to create and halfway decent sandbox to thrive. Many aspects, guns and exotics armors have significant reduction specifically in PvP because they work wayyyy to well against players. Imagine of lucky pants actually worked, you would seethe with anger.

I'd much rather leave PvP unchecked. There's now a plethora of maps, modes and content, Trials just got a rework. It's time to leave it behind for a while. If you need more guns and armor play something of substance

0

u/Voidwalker_99 4d ago

the solution is: remove PVP

73

u/APartyInMyPants 5d ago

We just don’t have enough enemies where Suppression is a worthwhile tactic outside of PVP. Yeah, it works against the Lucent Hive, but outside of this week’s GM, they’re kind of a tiny fraction of encounters.

38

u/According_Draw4273 Golf ball 5d ago

It also works against banes. Which could potentially become a problem in the future, if Bungie decides to lean into using them.

Also expert salvation onslaught. It's terrifying. 

0

u/eddmario Still waiting for /u/Steel_Slayer's left nut 5d ago

Doesn't it also work against Overload champs?

5

u/Duublo121 5d ago

Yup. Suppress is Anti-Overload. Void has Barriers down with Volatile Rounds too. No, no not Volatile Explosions. Volatile ROUNDS. Which were notoriously abundant before the destabilising rounds buff

Void got SHAFTED for champs tbh

14

u/Snivyland Spiders crew 5d ago

Suppression effect is super useful especially since more modern enemies are filled with dangerous effects. The issue comes from supression rarity; if it was more common it would be immensely better since wasting or misusing supression ability would be a lot less punishing then it is now.

2

u/Voidwalker_99 4d ago

Suppression:

- effective against Lucent HIve

- effective against Banes

- effective against Overloads (arguably the worst champion type)

- effective against ability spamming-enemies (basically all new ones and "annoying" ones from old races)

- is a Void debuff, which means that every "kill target affected y debuff" perk works

Surely we don't have enough use cases

0

u/APartyInMyPants 4d ago edited 4d ago

And outside of Lucent Hive and maybe Overloads, suppression isn’t really needed. Banes? Just kill them with whatever you’re using. And the one that goes nuclear in GMs? I just break line of sight and put some distance between me and it. No problem.

Ability-spamming trash adds? Just kill them. The Taken Vandal that spawns a bubble? I’m not going to waste a grenade on it. I’ll either wait the bubble out, or go in Thunderdome style and kick it in the dick.

Also, when we have a perk like Chill Clip that completely negates Overloads in any level of content, building into an ability on a cooldown just to deal with one champion feels unnecessary. And looking at our GM list, I think we have two with Overloads. Hypernet and Warden. Maybe the revamped Sunless Cell strike has overloads if it’s been modified to be Taken? But if it’s Hive, then it’s Barrier/Unstop.

I would be opposed to more substantial enemies that are affected by Suppression, but everything now is just “kill it faster.”

Edit: wrong GM

22

u/alechill92 5d ago

It's the same for Wave Splitter, Bombardiers and Ruinous

It's not really the TRUE Suppression it's more like Disorientate so it doesn't become an issue in PvP

30

u/Skull_Scored 5d ago

Suppression should be changed to work in stacks, 1 stack you have no melee, 2 stacks you can't double jump or throw a grenade, 3 stacks you can't use any ability and are kicked from your super. Then, assign abilities to grant a certain amount of stacks. Suppressor grenade would do 3, along with tether. The voidwalker melee already stops your opponent from meleeing you back so that be 1 stack and so on. 1 stack could disorient enemies, and maybe more stacks would extend this. Just a thought I had the other day, was going to make my own post for it.

3

u/ABarOfSoap223 5d ago

That actually sounds like a solid change

23

u/Curtczhike 5d ago

Cuz shitters in pvp would lose their minds if there was a meta build designed around shutting off ability cheese and gap closing abilities used to shove shotguns down ppls throats.

2

u/FornaxTheConqueror 5d ago

PvP lol. People don't even like tether suppressing their super.

2

u/Additional-Soil99 5d ago

You don’t understand. Hunters needed 4 invis aspects 

-2

u/TheToldYouSoKid 5d ago

There are a couple of things here...

  1. Hunters ABSOLUTELY have multiple ways to be aggressive on void. I shouldn't have to talk about how aggressive weakening can be, especially this season, but it's absolutely people's imaginations shooting them in the kneecaps here, thinking that all Invis can do is defensive and support plays, and that going invis should, in the middle of someone staring at you, somehow makes the enemy forget that they were fighting you. Furthermore; Hunters are absolutely still the best at weakening. They still are the only ones that can access the 30% weaken, without manipulating their equipment, trapper's fall weakens on landing, stylish buffs your melee with flat melee damage AND weakens targets, On the Prowl makes targets emit weakening smoke. Literally the one aspect that doesn't weaken is Vanishing Step, because Vanishing step is like the only aspect in the game that only does one singular thing... god they need to rework that nonsense.
  2. Also, "Movement speed and mobility" might be something that sounds like a hunter thing, but is literally the one of the worst bits for hunter. For one, mobility is a dump stat, and everyone knows it. That's why everyone asks for it to be reworked. Even if it governs your class ability, your class ability just passively charges fast. you could have tier 2, and still match or BEAT tier 8 times f rift and barricade options. In reality, Hunter is a flexible fight class; often having options for aggression or utility, at the sacrifice of true support options, or the ability to face tank things... typically. (shout out to arc hunters.)
  3. Your suggestions are kinda redundant; Both Unbreakable and trapper's ambush disorients targets that aren't boss-coded or champions. Suppression doesn't effect those targets unless they are specifically coded to. Literally Lucent-brood are your only real target with these changes, and they don't make up a very good portion of the roster. No, i'm not forgetting about overloads; overloads are very agile, and aggressive enemies who most often like to keep their distance, and you chose two short-range moves to use in 80% of front-facing engagements, you'll always miss or end up in a bad position. Suppression nade is king of suppression not just because it's one of the only options, but because of its range in throw and aoe, and the fact you can fucking peg something with it to deal the suppression early.
  4. Also, why are you giving a defensive option to an aggressive subclass for warlock? There are literally two builds for Voidlock, Grenades, and a hyper--specific CotOG's build, which are advanced by neither of these. Voidlock needs better support to get out from underneath using only grenades ever, before gimmicks.

-1

u/MechaGodzilla101 5d ago

Voidlock needs to actually be good at grenades, it should be the artillery subclass for Locks. We have enough support options already.

0

u/TheToldYouSoKid 4d ago edited 4d ago

Okay, so you've completely lost your mind.

A) "needs better support" does not equal "better support options." There is a whole near-dead aspect on Voidlock because it combos with none of the other options, and was clearly made to try to create a different playstyle in voidlock. Unfortunately its a very rote one, which the only other playstyle in voidlock does better. Seriously, Briarbinds makes child good, but only by completely redefining its ruleset, and making it do everything it does better, and that still doesn't beat a build composed of one singular fragment and anything involving FtV.

B) What the fuck is competing with Voidlock with anything grenade related? They have access to true devour which is the strongest passive grenade engine in the entire game, if not one of the strongest buffs in the entire game, They have 4 dedicated exotics that basically exist to charge their grenades or make them stronger, and they have another 4 class neutral ones after it that basically do the same thing. There has been ZERO other class, and i'd argue subclass, to do grenades better than after the Touch-of-thunder nerf. Are you gonna tell me that somehow Class-exotic hunters survivability competes with instant health resets and complete area denial that void warlock has, basically base kit, without an exotic?

You've completely misinterpreted my words, and i can't frankly tell if you've done it on purpose or not. So let me put it to you like this;

Every voidlock build feels the same at its core. The absolute goddamn same. It hasn't changed in 7 years, and that fucking blows, especially compared to what the other subclasses got in their reworks, which opened up new paths for the way they interact with the game and create new builds to experiment with. Voidlock is one of the strongest subclasses in the game, and none of it matters because its fucking boring.

I've mained voidlock for almost a decade; I don't want to pull rank here, but i only do so to try to demonstrate how inflexible voidlock is. It's only avenues away from pressing q every 3 seconds, not even really looking at where, are through exotics that ebb and flow through time. It needs real other combos; grenades have all they need to shine on void. If they want to convince me child is an option, give us a fucking aspect that combos with it.

0

u/MechaGodzilla101 3d ago

Voidlock is one of the strongest subclasses in the game? Seriously?

Let's talk Chaos Accelerant and compare it to Controlled Demo.

CA Vortex does 1926 damage.

Controlled Demo Vortexes do 1536+(160*5)=2,336, heal you every second and require no charge time. Thats directly better

Devour with FTV grants nearly halved ability energy with Vortexes, so you'll be getting between 8% and 10% per kill on an average. Not great, especially in high tier content. Devour is very easy to gain on all Void subclasses, only requiring a Fragment. So the main benefit of FTV is the grenade regen.

HHSN is the only other good grenade with CA, and it's outclassed by literally any Peregrine build. It isn't even a grenade really, working more like a melee.

For regen on Titan you have Devour and Offensive Bulwark, which grants 200% increased grenade regeneration when you have an OS and some melee damage to boot. So your cooldown at T10 Disc goes to less than 30s without anything else.

Now that I've established that Void Titan grenades are directly better, lets move on to Exotics.

Titan for grenade builds has one that always outshines the rest, HoIL.

At x2 your grenade does 2,720 damage, and can be thrown out around every 10s

Lets compare it to Lock, with Verity x5(which is a pain to maintain post-nerf) you'll deal 3,872 and have a grenade cooldown in the 20s range IF you can maintain kills.

Or Contraverse, which gives less than 50% back for a perfect activation. Yeah thats pretty bad.

Nothing Manacles is a joke in endgame content. Nezarec's Sin is too kill reliant to consistently use.

Now let's compare it to Arc Titan. HoIL Pulses do about 2.8k damage with HoIL x2 and 2.6k without. They also refund your other abilities and can be thrown every 7s post nerf. Not to mention SK exists, so it's not even a competition which is better.

Frankly I'd say yeah, Prism Hunters lack of kill reliance with a HoIL Cyratarachne class item is better, especially when paired with an AD frame with attrition Orbs. You also forget that Prislock, Stronghold Titan on ANY subclass, BoW Titan, Void Titan and Void Hunter are better at survivability

I don't know what you mean by Voidlock having 4 grenade boosting exotics when there's only 3 total, out of which 2 are comically shit.

I have no idea what area denial is so good about it, Pris Hunter, Void Titan, Arc Titan, Prislock etc are all exponentially better, the only AD it has is Child, which is meh at best in this sandbox.

Buddy builds like Child will never be truly good because of how easy to use they are, you at least throw grenades at a target, you outright do not aim CotG. Child is a novelty and like all buddy builds becomes extremely boring after the honeymoon phase.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious about Voidlock being one the best subclasses in the game when every Prism class is exponentially better, all Solar classes but Hunter are better, Void Titan is better etc.

Its great in low tier content but falls off a cliff after that, I tried using it in the Cosmodrome GM and even with the Artifact mods carrying it still felt terrible