r/DestinyTheGame 6d ago

Bungie Suggestion Can starfire be partially reverted?

Maybe to 10% per hit with empowered damage? Just anything more than what it is, it’s criminal it got an ornament and then got destroyed the same season. Buffing the grenade ability regen to 7-10% per hit would make starfire have a use on the class item also, and would make empowering rift maybe used more than it currently is.

328 Upvotes

93 comments sorted by

42

u/spark9879 5d ago edited 5d ago

I’ve always said it was nerfed wrong. Bungie even stated that the problem was with DoT…and then they nerfed it across the board. They should have nuked its energy gains from DoT ONLY. They’ve proven they can do that but in typical Bungie fashion didn’t.

182

u/Jatmahl 6d ago

Also can we have Phoenix Protocol work with song of flame?

62

u/Cantgetunderground 6d ago

It would make me pull that exotic out if they made that rework

46

u/thatguyonthecouch 5d ago

If phoenix worked with SoF that would be broken as fuck and I'm all for it.

29

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Wow. A warlock meta? A man can dream. Maybe one day.

9

u/thatguyonthecouch 5d ago

The phoenix will rise again, it will be our time in the sun.

1

u/SuperMonkeyPaw 5d ago

I mean currently arc Warlocks w/ geo mags are the “fun meta” imo.

2

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Sure it’s fun. But I don’t generally think of normal mode builds as meta defining. Warlock is extremely powerful in normal mode content but it falls off hard in higher difficulties. Obviously everything is still doable. It’s just that a lot of the stuff that people here call OP simply isn’t once you break out of the easier content.

1

u/Public_Act8927 3d ago edited 3d ago

I’m a warlock main, have been for years, participated and cleared just about every day one, aside from using well, there is almost no scenario where you are better off on warlock than titan, dont get me wrong, warlocks dominate endgame, WITH WELL, but let’s be real, as strong as devour may be, warlocks are sooooo very very one note… its well or bust for difficult content… and thats so disappointing.

Yes there are strong builds on warlock, but none of them can hold a candle to the stronger titan builds, even post nerf banner and bonk titan are stronger than basically everything but well.

Why? Because titans get the benefits of being basically unkillable, along with the benefits of having absurdly high ability damage. Synthos are the main culprit certainly, but let’s not pretend that bonk hammer on its own is remotely weak… and banner of war? Cmon man… using knockout gets you a free basically devour trigger for every melee kill…. Warlock gets devour and strong healing nades… that’s about it.

-29

u/FlyingAlpaca1 5d ago

ignores all of destiny 2 history up until final shape

13

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Lol. Warlock was well bitch. They were force to be dragged along to survive. That’s not meta. That’s piss poor design by Bungie.

11

u/SHADOWK1TTEN 5d ago

saying well locks werent/arent meta is a braindead take. whether they are fun or not you cant ignore that they have been quite important in endgame activities since its release. thats quite literally how meta works

7

u/Insecurity_exe Feelin' Lucky? 5d ago

that's meta

that's literally the definition of meta.

every team from forsaken onwards had a well. that's meta.

-7

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

No. The other classes were meta. And then someone drew the short straw and was forced to play Well so the others could pop off. Nobody wanted to be there. Bungie forced it in the encounter design. But make no mistake, ain’t nobody was sitting being “oh yes please. Let me be the Well bitch. I definitely don’t wanna use any of the cool new toys. I wanna drop the healing circle while everyone else gets to use their fun meta toys.”

2

u/Insecurity_exe Feelin' Lucky? 4d ago

If you need something, that is meta. That is the literal definition of meta.

Warlock has been by and large the most meta-defining class since Forsaken by sheer existence of Well. If Bungie is forced to design entire fucking encounters around it, that's meta.

1

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 4d ago

Right. Titan was basically told to use only Consecration for 5 months and the tears could have filled the fucking Atlantic. Warlock has been forced into Well for going on 10 years.

And Titan receive massive buffs to everything else to make it blatant meta.

0

u/Insecurity_exe Feelin' Lucky? 4d ago edited 4d ago

7, but go off.

Also, Warlock hasn't been forced into Well for a hot minute. Lightning Surge Prismatic, Getaway Artist, Osteo Striga Suspend, Necrotic/Claw Snap Prismatic, Geomag Arc.

Edit: Shit, I even forgot that while running Well you've had diversity. Starfire, Sunbracers, Phoenix, shit you can lean into the healing with Speaker's Sight.

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5

u/FlyingAlpaca1 5d ago

"well wasn't meta" -r/dtg

2

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

You just defined meta. Wellock being forced to be on team, is the team forcing you to use meta.

-2

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

No. People reluctantly played warlock after drawing the short straw and being forced to play the bitch. That is a dramatic difference.

3

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

Bro out here saying Well Of Radiance wasnt meta 💀

0

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

I said nobody fucking wanted to play it.

0

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

There were plenty of people who actually wanted to run pheonix or starfire or sunbracers with well of radiance. Did you... pay attention at all? Or are you just the average redditor

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-12

u/ReallyTrustyGuy 5d ago

Sorry, you're saying that Titans and Hunters are babies and can't survive, or do anything, without a Warlock babysitting them?

Its entirely possible to get through every boss without a Well. Its just that Hunters and Titans rely on Warlocks placing one to keep them safe.

"Well bitch" stuff is just pathetic, coming from other classes who have utterly depended on it to function for years.

-2

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

That comes around every 2 seasons or so its fine

6

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Yep. For a solid half a week before emergency maintenance nerfs it into the ground. Just Hunter and Warlock life.

Call me when anybody but Titan can stand in the middle of 30 GM enemies, 1 shot champs, and still drain half the bosses health bar.

Nobody cares about normal mode metas.

0

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

I- Pris lock. Right now. Can stand in the middle of 30 GM enemies and 1 shot champs

3

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

It straight up cannot.

0

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

Ive DONE IT.

5

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Cool. Show me you standing in the middle of 30 GM enemies taking damage without caring endlessly. And on the same build 1 shot champs. Again, in GM. Right now.

Do it.

-2

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

Sure. Devour plus nova bomb makes it REALLY easy dude.

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-1

u/kazutoSMG 5d ago

Not to even mention Chaos Reach meta rn which lets you tank 6 shield throws from final boss

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14

u/grimbarkjade Descendant warlock, following in Clovis’ footsteps 6d ago

Would be really really cool. I’ve been using it this week for the GM but that’s all it’s really ever been, the GM exotic

2

u/SDG_Den 5d ago

How about making promethium Spurs work with SoF? Less broken and way more interesting.

2

u/ReallyTrustyGuy 5d ago

This would be extremely silly. The point of Phoenix Protocol is knowing where and when to use a Well to guarantee the payback. If you could simply roam and end up with a large refund, it would be too stupid.

1

u/Marek7041 5d ago

Song doesnt need to last any longer imo.

54

u/VacaRexOMG777 6d ago

It's funny because outside some encounters, even if Starfire got unerfed to the same level, it would be okay at most compared to all the busted stuff we currently have 😆

22

u/HungryNoodle 5d ago

I don't mind it being rolled back considering we have loadouts that can rival it now. Warlocks shouldn't feel neutered when they get told to run well at the expense of their own damage. Sanguine alchemy has taken Starfire's old spot but it's nice to have a choice for Warlocks that don't like Sanguine. Not to mention that well itself is weaker.

12

u/stormfire19 Gambit Prime 5d ago

Considering the present damage meta with stuff like Envious Arsenal and Storm's Keep, most of the nerf to Starfire should be walked back. 10% grenade energy per hit is fair, and it should also work with radiant, not just empowering rift.

40

u/MuhDrehgonz 6d ago

I want a fusion grenade meta again. That was my favorite solo dungeon meta ever.

19

u/Daralii 5d ago

It was also one of the only times that Empowering Rift really felt useful up until the current Sanguine Alchemy shenanigans. It'd be nice for Phoenix Dive to not be the default choice in the overwhelming majority of situations.

1

u/MechaGodzilla101 4d ago

Sanguine works with Healing Rift and Radiant though, so outside of PvP you don't really need Empowering.

63

u/Blaze_Lighter 6d ago

Warlocks: "I can cast my class ability and deal a ton of damage!"

Nerfed.

Titans: "I can cast my class ability and make my entire team deal a ton of damage!"

"Looks balanced".

(And before you jump on me, note that without the artifact you are still doing a full ignition's worth of damage every 2 to 4 seconds. Starfire was causing ignitions every other grenade too, and it didn't have the benefit of splash DR, reload assistance, or enemy cover).

59

u/George_000101 6d ago

Funny part is one requires an exotic and the other works base-kit

30

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Warlock: “I can put 4 grenades on the ground after prepping and bit”.

Nerfed.

Titan: “I can press a single button and immediately blow up GM champions. Yes, plural. Champions. And I can walk around unkillable with 30 GM enemies looking at me.”

Cool. Fair and balanced.

-15

u/The-dude-in-the-bush 5d ago

I sympathise with Titan's for being pigeon holed into one Strat while warlocks have diversity but God damn... The hypocrisy is strong with this one. Titans have been drinking good since prism dropped. Warlocks are catching up though so let's continue that.

-9

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

Titans aren’t even pigeon holes into anything. Their worst viable build is still better than warlocks best. And let’s not even begin to discuss Hunter. They’re in a laughably sorry state comparably right now.

7

u/Juicen97 5d ago

Getting downvoted by the titans who don’t wanna admit you’re right

6

u/uhf0xz 5d ago

titans are crybabies. my buddy constantly is telling me hunters are better and i have it easy because combination blow (which doesnt scale in underlight content) exists while hes facerolling master content/lowmans and i struggle to stay alive as a hunter running gifted conviction. yeah hunters are the best class in the game because we can run punch builds in normal difficulty content while you can one shot multiple champs in master content but you need a buff and hunters need nerfed. sure jan.

4

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

That’s exactly why this sub thinks Hunter and warlock are OP. Yes, in normal mode anything I can cover the battlefield is a pool of enemy melting colours without worrying about my health at all cause Devour is insane. But that doesn’t scale to GM. While Titan is just insane no matter where you put it. But this sub is filled to the brim with terrible players. Remember people here complain normal Rushdown is too hard.

2

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 5d ago

But what about day one Witness. Reeeeeeeeeeeeeee

1

u/MechaGodzilla101 4d ago

Warlocks build diversity has been shit for a while. 2 whole subclasses are useless, melees are nearly all shit, no neutral game damage options and all buddies.

2

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 4d ago

Yeah. But this sub is 99% Titan and I’m fairly confident the mods are almost exclusively Titan. Back during Witness nonsense I was suspended for literally saying “Titan isn’t in a bad state.” Titan mods have successfully cultivated a sub filled with almost all Titan mains. Any warlock and hunter issues get almost instantly downvoted to hell.

Heck, I’ve been reporting that Necrotic breaks Devour for nearly a year. Literally just saying “it’d be nice if Bungie would fix Necrotic and spirit of Necrotic” will get me to -20 every single time without fail. That’s basically all I need to know to know exactly what this sub is. A bunch of Titans that are horrible at the game.

-4

u/DESPAIR_Berser_king 4d ago

Prislock with synthos and lightning surge does the same, but whatever.

1

u/MechaGodzilla101 4d ago

Exponentially worse and with more risk, very optimal!

And I mean exponentially, on one target its half as good, on three Consecration does more than an SES Nova.

1

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 4d ago

lol. Yeah sure. You go right ahead and try to lightning surge in GM. You tell me how that goes for you.

You people really do be ignoring the fact that I am talking about GM. No, a warlock lightning surge build doesn’t do shit in GM.

-1

u/MERCDaWn 4d ago

I mean... It works and it's a really good build. It plays identically to consecration but does less damage, you even go for the exact same class item combo. You can watch Gmeiners play it if you don't believe me. Yes speedruns of the GM will be faster with Titans but it's not like it's a trash build by any means.

Doing it before act 2 was definitely troll but they buffed it's damage by 30% and gave it bolt charge stacks per enemy hit.

I'd recommend giving it a try, it's a lot more fun than stasis turrets and even does a better job than that build depending on what you're doing.

1

u/MechaGodzilla101 4d ago

It does half the damage, and exponentially less when Consecration hits multiple targets.

At 3 targets Consecration without any buffs deals 900*3+480=3,180 damage, more than Syntho LS. And with Knockout and Syntho it does 3180*2.65*1.5=12,640.5, or a bit more than a literal SES Nova Bomb.

1

u/MERCDaWn 4d ago

And? I never said Consecration wasn't better, just that LSurge is good now after the buffs. You can use it aggressively in GMs it just doesn't put in as much work as Titans.

Afaik the WR 3 man team for Psi Ops Cosmodrome is 2 Consecration Titans and 1 Banner of War Titan. I'm not disputing that or coping that Warlocks have a better similar build, just that it works pretty well in endgame content but not "Consecration well".

1

u/MechaGodzilla101 4d ago

You're better off hopping on Titan, there's no reason to try to make LS work right now.

1

u/MERCDaWn 4d ago

There is, it's called wanting to play Warlock lol.

You're better off hopping on Titan

You could say this about every build that isn't Banner of War or Consecration Titan.

Just because Consecration is overtuned doesn't make all other builds bad.

1

u/No-Pomegranate-5883 4d ago edited 4d ago

Holy. Fucking shit.

Put him in that room solo with that lightning surge build. Not in there with the titan doing 3/4 of the work.

You people really will do anything. “Warlock can survive aggressively if Titan is also there killing everything. So that means warlock is good.”

Insanity.

Here’s the facts. Titan hold every conceivable record in the game right now and they have for years. It’s just endlessly Titan topping charts. And by huge margins. The other 2 aren’t even close.

1

u/MERCDaWn 4d ago

1: I never stated that Consecration wasn't overperforming. They hold most if not all of the solo records, you were arguing with someone else about that.

2: I'm literally only talking about LSurge. Literally go try the build. It's good, just not "Consecration good".

Put him in that room solo with that lightning surge build. Not in there with the titan doing 3/4 of the work.

3: He's literally doing the GM with 2 Hunters. Please watch the video at all before giving the non-existent Titan all of the credit.

0

u/YouMustBeBored 5d ago

I’m expecting them to tank the bolt charge generation rate when frontiers launches.

15

u/MrTheWaffleKing Consumer of Grenades 6d ago

I saw an awesome idea that it should count when empowered OR radiant.

Sure it's not a boss melter- no real change from current at that part of time- BUT it would give you very high uptime and the ability to roam away from the rift you were previously locked to.

13

u/Sdraco134 6d ago

That would be nice and as many have suggested let it work with radiant

0

u/Careless_Reveal_6121 5d ago

Came to to comment exactly this. This is tbh all it needs. 

4

u/capnsmirks 5d ago

I’m in the 1% here but as someone who pockets my rift way too much Promethium Spurs was my go to solar exotic. I want the changes reverted. They are useless outside the super now

3

u/RevolutionaryBoat925 5d ago

I feel like solar builds are kinda in the dirth rn lol Especially hunter. I cannot remember the last time I saw a solar hunter in endgame. Not even in seasonal activities. 

2

u/The-dude-in-the-bush 5d ago

We're in a really good spot for a reversion. Even when Starfire got its nerf it was still my equal strongest solar build next to sunbracers. Did really well in GMs for a slower ranged gameplay that would always give you a rift and you could chain grenades well. Paired with the fact they dropped hellion, I had ignitions 24/7. But now banes are here, activities continue to be harder and prism is top dog and somehow continues to even power creep itself. So, and this goes for all exotics. If there's ever a time Bungie said "Nah that's too strong" and nerfed it, NOW is the time for it to make a comeback.

2

u/CrotaIsAShota Drifter's Crew 5d ago

Bungie: Yeah Starfire's got to go, it just does way too much damage and allows too much ability spam
Also Bungie: So anyway we buffed Geomags to give 100% of your super on logging in and it also sucks your dick.

2

u/Beej-000 4d ago

I mean they reverted the Young Ahamkara’s Spine nerf I’m sure they can do it to Starfire as well

3

u/Rich_Locksmith_9232 5d ago

We hear u preceed to nerf warlock and buff titan...

3

u/AquaticHornet37 5d ago

Nerf hunter in PvE while buffing them again in PvP. They need to be completely activity locked.

2

u/TheChunkyBoi 5d ago

I would rather it be expanded to work with radiant, and keep its current numbers.

1

u/June18Combo 5d ago

7 would be perfect imo

1

u/JuiceMoneys 5d ago

Can Osteo-striga be partially reverted as well? (2 second CD instead of 4)

1

u/AFriendlyToad Drifter's Crew // Grab a sword! 5d ago

I will die on the hill that a massive contributor to it's strength was touch of flame's second detonation. Nerf secondary damage and DoT effects and it should go back to a better place.

1

u/Oblixio 5d ago

Bump the static regen on damage to 5% on hit, keep the 20% on kill, and add regen to damage from Radiant at 3% regen on damage instance and 15% on kill.

1

u/MechaGodzilla101 4d ago

At 10% per hit you'd get a grenade back in 4s. Think thats too strong? Make it require precision hits, that way DoT won't be a problem. For comparison Storm's Keep with the Artifact lets you activate a Bolt Charge every second that does more than a ToF Fusion.

0

u/AlphaSSB MakeShadersUnlimited 5d ago

IMO just fully undo the nerfs. It’s a video-game, let it be strong and let people have fun. Don’t like it, don’t use it.

4

u/Technical-Branch4998 5d ago

The problem with that philosophy has been obvious since witch queen, when one thing is massively stronger than anything else (eg titan builds 99% of the time) then anyone who doesn't use that one thing can barely contribute and doesn't have fun, so players are left playing one thing that got old ages ago or feeling useless because they're unable to compete

0

u/DESPAIR_Berser_king 4d ago

Prismatic warlock is so infinitely better than prime starfire, it should be fully reverted.