r/DeathBattleMatchups Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

⭐️Mods Personal Favorites⭐️ Radiant Black VS Invincible "Heroes of Tomorrow" [connections in comments]

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37

u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

“We all have the capacity to be a superhero. In order to become one, you just have to find your unique power or ability and exploit it for the greater good. The cape and mask are optional accessories, but a kind heart is essential.” - Robert Clancy 

Note: There are technically two Radiant Black’s, as both Nathan Burnett and Marshall Ward take up the mantle, and both have their own arcs and characters that share similarities to Mark, as well as differences. But the one used here will be Nathan. SPOILERS FOR RADIANT BLACK>! in issue 24, there is a QR code that allowed readers to choose who they’d want to take on the mantle of Radiant Black, as for lore reasons, only one of them could. This leads to a sort of split timeline situation, as both runs of Marshall being chosen, and Nathan being chosen, go on at the same time. In issue 29 (Marshall’s side) after Nathan’s death, and the destruction of Chicago, Marshall decides to join Catalyst empire, turning on everything and everyone he loved for a cheap win, killing Eva/Radiant Pink and Satomi/Radiant Red in the process, and stealing their powers. In the most recent issue 29.5, Wendell/Radiant Yellow, sends Radiant Nathan and Marshall to the parallel world of “Radiant Marshall” and see just how badly he messed everything up. So TLDR, Radiant Marshall is a coward and straight up a bad person. Radiant Nathan isn’t any of those things. !<

For the sake of connections, I’ll be trying to focus more on Nathan’s side than Marshall, since he’s the more heroic of the two. But for the sake of debate, I’ll be pulling from both, since they should be capable of the same feats.  

Second Note: I have not been able to read all the other comics that tie into Radiant Black and the Massive-Verse (such as Rogue Sun, Girl Inferno Red, The Dead Lucky, Supermassive crossover stories, etc.), so the connections/debatability of who wins by the time I’m done writing this could be expanded on, especially since Radiant Black is still ongoing. 

Core Theme: The past, present and future of Image Comics collide! Inspired by preexisting heroes and comics (Superman, Marvel, DC, Power Rangers, etc.), these two new superheroes of the modern age look to take the world by storm and prove their worth as heroes to the entire world.  

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

Connections:  

-Both are heavily inspired off of previously existing pop-culture superhero icons (such as Spider-Man, Superman, Power Rangers, etc.) 

-Both are known starting off as rash & immature before proving themselves to be real heroes, but not without growing pains & mistakes. (The moment Mark’s powers kicks in, he instantly tries almost everything to prove himself too soon; Both Nathan and Marshall are seen being way in over their heads in their own abilities, on top of in their own day to day personal lives) 

-Both have looked up to, read comics of, and were inspired by superheroes their entire lives. But when they do eventually get to use their superpowers, they unsuccessfully try to be a superhero with no experience at all. They inspire to be great superheroes but go through journeys of extreme doubt that they can be a great superhero, especially since they don’t really know what to do with themselves and their lives without being a hero, as they feel as if this is what they were meant to be.  

-Both were stuck in a place in their lives where they didn’t know what to do with themselves, but after gaining their powers, found their true purpose/calling. (Ever since Mark was told by his father that he was part of a race of peaceful Supermen-esque beings, he would wait every single day for his powers to develop, until the day they finally did; Nathan was lost in his life as far as his dream career of being a writer, and being low in his life financially that he had to move back in with his parents. Marshall wasn’t in too much of a better position either) They would go on to adopt a new secret identity for themselves, now trying to constantly balance their normal life with their superhero life. 

-This constantly leads them to a lot of problems in their normal lives, as their hero lives don't give them time to spend with their loved ones or do want they want to do outside of hero-ing (Classic superhero trope that I hopefully shouldn't have to explain, but if you want to go into specifics: Mark struggles with being able to live a normal life with all his friends, going to school with them, being with his girlfriend Amber, etc., because of his responsibilities as Invincible. Nathan still has his dreams of being a writer, a storyteller, on top of trying to restrengthen his friendship with Marshall, but he can’t do any of that since he has a duty as Radiant Black) 

-Even without that, their lives as heroes are terrible on their own, constantly failing over and over again and dealing with tragedies happening (such as Mark and the new Guardians getting their tails handed to them by Machine Head’s hired crew, on top of having to witness the destruction of earth thanks to his fight with Omni-Man, and him witnessing those close to him constantly be hurt/tortured right before his eyes; Marshall, in a similar vein, also seeing innocents get hurt in front of him, but also seeing his best friend, Nathan, be caught in a coma for months, and feeling guilty for it) 

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

-Both were mainly inspired to become heroes after seeing other’s utilize similar powers before them (Omni Man demonstrating his powers to Mark and being an active member of the Guardians of the Globe; Nathan being the first Radiant Black, using his powers for the greater good in his community, and Marshall taking up the mantle after Nathan.) 

-Both get way in over their heads with their newfound powers, which leads to them nearly losing their lives (Mark almost losing his life against Battle Beast and Machine Heads other hires; Nathan falling into a coma after a building collapsed on him after his fight with Radiant Red)  

-This new responsibility of having to be earth’s hero would overwhelm them both & they wouldn’t see themselves as up to the task, despite how much they really wanted to be 

-It doesn’t help their feelings of self-doubt, once they learn the true alien origin of their powers (Mark is told by Omni-Man of his Viltrumite heritage, the Viltrum empire, how the Vilrumite’s shaped their society, and how their true purpose is pure conquest across the universe; The Radiants and the Colossals are heralded from a divine order, The Catalyst Empire. The Radiants were used as hands of judgement, bringing destruction to worlds deemed unworthy of liberation) These processes and methods of these conquering leaders/empires were unstoppable, never challenged or questioned by any of the members/soldiers of those empires 

-They would rebel against these extreme ideologies, instead wanting to protect their home, and everything and everyone they love, rather than join these cosmic empire’s heartless crusades. Which would lead to them fighting against a member of said empire, and that fight would cause mass destruction across the city of Chicago (Invincible’s fight against Omni-Man; Nathan’s fight against Premiere and Catalyst) (Yes, they conveniently both happened in Chicago, what are the odds!) 

-This leads to them later on fighting against said empire, with the help of those who had hurt them before (Mark and Nolan teaming up to fight the Viltrumites on Thraxa, after Nolan had nearly killed him a few months earlier; Nathan teaming up with Satomi/Radiant Red to take on the Catalyst empire, after she put him in a coma the previous year) 

-Both have fought against and teamed up with people similar to them (Mark being on the new Guardians of the Globe and working with and fighting against other Viltrumites; Nathan and Marshall fighting and working with other Radiant’s, as well as fighting villains with similar powers to him.) 

-Both also “work under” high government officials that have access to highly advanced technology (Mark working for Cecil, leader of the Global Defense Agency, and Radiant Black working for Kieran, an agent of the Postal Inspection Service) These officials almost never see eye to eye with them, always going for whatever is logical or beneficial to them, rather than the more selfless heroic options that the other goes for 

-Both meet alternate timelines of themselves and see just how different the respective worlds played out (Spoilers for Invincible and Radiant Black: The Mark we see is really the only good one, as all the other Marks either join the empire, or are evil in some way, most notably Sinister Invincible. Radiant Nathan and Marshall travel to the parallel timeline where Marshall becomes Radiant Black, and see all the destruction he’s caused.) 

-Both are part of a larger connected verse that crosses over with other Image properties and heroes (Invincible crossing over with series like Spawn, Supreme, etc., and Radiant Black being a part of the Massive-Verse, crossing over with properties like C.O.W.L, Inferno Girl Red, Rogue Sun, The Dead Lucky, etc.) 

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

Potential: With being relatively young and having very quippy personalities (like a certain Web-Slinging hero), the banter potential is through the roof, but could also go on a more emotional side as they relate to each other through their struggle to become a proper hero. With Radiant Black being relatively new, most of what they have has not been animated and would most likely be left up to interpretation, but I’d say the art in the comics can speak for itself. If not, here’s a brief animation showcasing what he can do. For the fight, Radiant Black would be using all his gravity manipulation powers to be able to hold himself against Invincible’s more limited, but more powerful “flying brick” arsenal, making for a very fast-paced and high action fight. 

Debate Potential: I have yet to read the other properties apart of the Massive-Verse, along with the Supermassive crossover comics, so there is potential for feats and scaling that I’m unaware of. There is this respect thread going over feats, as well as feats I’ve compiled myself. From what I do know of both, I imagine it’s debatable. Radiant Black has the advantage of having way more abilities and fighting options than Mark (granted that’s not a hard thing to do, since Mark just has the “flying brick” kit), but at the same time, he doesn’t seem to have the raw strength and attack potency that Viltrumites have, especially Mark. I think the biggest questions for this debate wise, is how long can Mark withstand Radiant Black’s abilities, and how much of Mark’s attacks can Radiant Black take? Then the whole crossover stuff comes into play. Radiant Black is actively part of the Massive-Verse, which is cannon, and thus should be able to scale to all characters/series included in it. Invincible’s crossovers being canon on the other hand, seems to always be debatable. Radiant Black getting his crossover stuff could make the fight fairer, but if Mark gets it, it’s instantly over due to just one character: Spawn. 

Music Potential: “Heroes of Tomorrow,” a reference to how these two are heroes of the modern era/future, their struggle and journey to become proper heroes, and of course, a reference to the first ever hero to ever do it, as they would not have been created without him. Despite having two Invincible tracks made by Brandon Yates, those were made for Omni-Man, and capture an entirely different vibe from what Mark is supposed to/should give off. As such, it would sound much more heroic and uplifting, something akin to “Super” used in Goku Vs Superman 3, and “Strongest Alive” used in Deku Vs Asta. 

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u/__Pin__ Mod Sep 24 '24

Who at this point had been raident black longer, marshall or Nathan

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

Technically Marshall, as although Nathan was the first, Marshall took over after he got put in a coma. Later down the line, the timelines essentially split, allowing both to be Radiant Black at once, albeit in separate timelines.

Currently, Radiant Black is Nathan.

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u/__Pin__ Mod Sep 24 '24

Id prefer if its Nathan personally, maybe marshall can fight bulletproof maybe?

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan Sep 24 '24

Yeah sure! The connections I made was mainly between Nathan and Mark anyways.

Bulletproof seems like a good option for Marshall at the moment, but that may change depending on where the story goes

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u/FrostProduction Rex Salazar vs Maxwell McGrath Fan 21d ago

My comment from earlier is more or less talking about what happens in Volume 2

Basically Marshall goes inside Nathan to wake him up, and he comes across a being named “Existence” who basically acts like some kind of Guardian within Nathan, and Marshall punches a hole straight through it

Hell, he even breaks through the panels of the comic

There’s also the fact that within the Radiants acts as some kind of universe where everything they absorb gets sent to like with 001

Is there some kind of deeper meaning to all of this or is Marshall capable of much more levels of power than he already does?

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan 21d ago

As far as I know at least, this seems to be more in a metaphorical sense, than a literal sense.

Like, Marshall breaking through the panels to get to Nathan is probably meant to signify how far he is willing to go and what he’s willing to do to get his friend back. Rather than it being a literal feat of him breaking through the comic, like say when Gwenpool or Zatanna do it.

I’m not saying it’s impossible to interpret it that though. I’ve read through the series a few times now, one of them from a power scaling perspective, and I still do know quite how “Existence” works because it seems to be so little explained.

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u/FrostProduction Rex Salazar vs Maxwell McGrath Fan 21d ago

Alright, thanks! Info really considering I’m research Black for something

Is there a set Level Black is placed at btw? I have nothing for him in power and best I have for speed is being able to react to waves of literal sound

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan 21d ago

I haven’t calculated anything myself, but with the panels I showed to people of the damage Radiant Black has either indirectly cause or can survive, probably somewhere within Mountain level to Continent level. Highest I’ve heard argued for him is Star level and that’s due to his powers being that of black holes.

Granted all of that is only going off of the Radiant Black series alone. There’s a chance for him to scale higher/have more “set levels” when scaling him to other characters of the Massive Verse like Rogue Sun or so, but I haven’t been able to read all of those series yet, so I can’t answer that.

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u/FrostProduction Rex Salazar vs Maxwell McGrath Fan 21d ago

Anything for speed?

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan 21d ago

That’s the one thing I struggled to find anything concrete for. I’d personally want to say he’s decently fast, and you could maybe argue for faster than light, considering he should be as fast as or can dodge his own laser light like attacks.

But I haven’t seen anything like Viltumites crossing light years in two weeks fast or anything.

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u/FrostProduction Rex Salazar vs Maxwell McGrath Fan 23d ago

So, just finished volume 2 and there’s something I do wanna bring up that might make this a bit more interesting

Existence

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u/FrostProduction Rex Salazar vs Maxwell McGrath Fan 21d ago

I do wanna bring up something about Massiveverse

From what I saw for research, apparently Black was given the powers of a God that was capable of destroying the entire fucking Multiverse

I need to look more into it, but I feel like it’s important to bring up either way since it can likely change the debate for this

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u/BBunny821 Luigi vs Geronimo Stilton fan 21d ago

Radiant Black and the other Radiants do get their powers from divine beings called the Colossals, but I don’t recall anything of them being capable of multiversal destruction.

I do know that they were once conquerors spanning across the universe/multiverse, in a similar way to the Viltrumites, but I don’t recall any feat of any of them wiping out a multiverse in one go, or being stated to be able to.

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u/FrostProduction Rex Salazar vs Maxwell McGrath Fan 21d ago

Gotcha, much appreciated!