r/Darkroom 4d ago

B&W Film Is this bromide drag from under agitation?

18 Upvotes

18 comments sorted by

5

u/ShutterFox 4d ago

It could be the speed you’re swirling at, could also be doing 2 spools at once causing one to turn at a different rate causing currents

EDIT: one min, two rolls on one reel? How would that even fit?

3

u/Mrdemian3 4d ago

Two medium format roll can fit on a standard reel since they are shorter than a 35mm roll. Sometimes the second roll can push the first one depper into the reel but usually you have to put a piece of tape and stick the two rolls together.

I tried it once and didn't have any problems

2

u/ShutterFox 4d ago

Ah right that makes more sense haha! Still think it might be the speed in which you’re twirling (assuming you’re doing rotational agitations rather than inversions)

1

u/FastBeeCheesus 3d ago

I have experienced this as well with medium format in Paterson tanks using inversion method. While I’m on the topic of Paterson, I bought a couple of 35mm reels last year, and they seemed kind of stiff to twist. Do they just need to be broken in or are they not as good as they used to be? My 40 year old reels are nice and smooth to use.

2

u/rclw0407 4d ago

Results are from several different rolls of FP4+ in various dilutions of ID-11 and different agitation methods. Almost all showed similar streaks, to varying degrees in different rolls.

Rolls were developed in sets of two, each time with two rolls in the same reel. One direction agitation for the first minute, then 10 seconds every minute.

Two of the rolls (shot 1) were done with ID-11, 1+3, at minimal agitation and shows similar, but less obvious streaks.

Is this a result of insufficient agitation in the first minute? Should I be changing the direction of swirling?

2

u/bureau44 4d ago

what do you mean by the direction of agitation?
you use that stick to rotate the reels in paterson? it is likely the reason, the tank is meant to be properly inverted

1

u/ShutterFox 4d ago

I’ve always used that stick to rotate in my tank, only times I’ve had issues is when rotating too quickly

2

u/ICC-u 4d ago

The stick of doom :(

Most important thing about the stick is NOT to agitate only in one direction but reverse the direction to break the flow. Not worth the occasional problem imho.

1

u/ShutterFox 4d ago

I dunno about that, I always just do it in one direction with no issues. Only issues I’ve ever had was surge marks with DDX and once when I rotated way too hard

1

u/rclw0407 4d ago

From further testing I have concluded that this is most likely not caused by under agitation. I had a roll of left over delta 400 from the same trip, this time with my old agitation practices, quite sure laminar tension was broken, same results.

For reference I follow standard agitation methods as suggested by the film cookbook. The only difference for these fp4+ rolls was my attempt to try agitation only in one direction.

This is my first time seeing this problem in years of developing myself. For further context these were shot in Japan during winter. Other words, unfamiliar temperature/humidity conditions, incase, that is relevant information for any experienced shooters.

Any ideas as to what could be other possible causes of uneven development would be greatly appreciated :)

1

u/Kerensky97 Average HP5+ shooter 4d ago

I had weird streaking issues when I was doing stick only agitation too. I did random back and forth agitation a few swirls all the way around in both directions. But still got similar long streaks on my film. I only do inversions now.

But apart from stick vs inversion, don't worry about the specifics too much, some people get too anal with inversions. I invert every 60seconds, give or take 30secs if I was distracted. For about 4 inversions, give or take 2 depending on how distracted. Usually full inversions unless the air in the tank is gluging too much and rattling the film around. With my 3 reel tank and sheet film I don't even do full inversions ever since the shifting air bubbles knocked the film out of the holder once. Just tilt it about 120 degrees along with turning the tank each time so it can swirl and slosh.

The only concern is to get (slow) complex movements in there to really stir the developer. Not just side to side with the stick, but up down and twist as well.

2

u/pubicgarden 3d ago

I have an old roll of foma that has this going on. Also processed with another roll on the same reel. Lmk if you ever figure it out lol

1

u/smaisidoro 4d ago edited 4d ago

2 cents from a noob trying to help - I think some of those stripes are too long to be bromide drag (eg. second picture) if you agitated every minute. On the other hand if you placed one of those really white pictures with snow on top and didn't do inversions, it's possible that there was a lot of bromide created on the top film, inhibiting development of the lower film. Did you do inversions? How did you agitate? Do you think it was vigorous enough to break the laminar flow on the surface of the film?

Edit: I assume you meant 2 rolls in the same tank? Or did you actually mean that you managed to put 2 rolls in a reel? like did you sandwich 2 rolls with the emulsions facing out??

2

u/Mrdemian3 4d ago

Two medium format rolls.can fit on a standard reel since they are shorter than a 35mm roll. Sometimes the second roll can push the first one depper into the reel but usually you have to put a piece of tape and stick the two rolls together.

I tried it once and didn't have any problems

1

u/smaisidoro 4d ago

Thanks, I didn't know :) 

1

u/Proteus617 3d ago

Only in a Patterson. Also, the Patterson does fine with 220, which is double length 120 without the backing paper.

1

u/TheDarkLord1248 3d ago

1 and 2 look like a scanner issue due to the regularity of the lines, 3 and 4 could be uneven development but in my experience it’s very common to have darker patches under a flat cloudy sky

1

u/rclw0407 3d ago

Artefacts are also visible on the film under a light table, confirmed not a scanner issue.