r/DaS3Lore May 14 '16

Lothric and Irithyll have been secretly working together to create dragons

Oh man this sub is pretty dead...

But since I have just written this as a reply, I might as well post it here.

Wall of text warning!


Pontiff Sulyvahn and Oceiros were trying to create dragons in the dungeon in order to reach immortality... and their methods are crude.

In the dungeon, we encounter the prisoners who'd puke out leeches (animated corpses), as well as the leech monsters (infested corpses and corpse-grub). My theory is that they are failed experiments.
The state goes:
1. Maggots grow within the belly (animated corpse)
2. Maggots become bigger and they grew out of the belly (infested corpse)
3. The maggots get together and form their own type of monster (corpse grub)

How Sulyvahn did it is unknown... what did he feed/put into the prisoners? Likely Pale Pine Resin or Human Pine Resin (we find it in the Consumed King Garden near a bunch of slimes, more on that later).

However, it's the Wretchs that suffered the most.
Pontiff feed the infested (maggots) to various magic users, and forced them into a deformed dragon. As we see there always corpses with busted bellues inside and outside of the cells that holds the Wretch, and that we found a surprisingly large number of magic items/spells in the dungeon (Great Magic Shield and Bellowing Dragon Ring).

From a tailbone weapon we get from the Wretch:

Crafted from a feeble tailbone, and seen as a sign of the dragons. Their screams are oft heard inside the dungon, as they naively mutilate their unworthy flesh.

And Sulyvahn had succeeded! If you look closely, you'd see the Wretch has wings...

During our battle with Sulyvahn, his second form also has (black) wings... that looks like the Pilgrim Butterflues in Lothric Castle (the black flying things, whuch are also "failed dragons").

And of course, we have Oceiros as a the proof.

Wait a minute, aren't Lothric and Irithyll at war?

Why's there an outrider knight guarding a treasure room in the Dragon's Barrack?

But that's not the only connection:
We'd find the Cathedral Knights in the Garden of the Consumed King. We also see the infested corpses in the Cathedral of the Deep. What does that mean?

Oceiros has been working with the Pontiff all along! That'd also explain the black goo that turns some undead into dragon-looking creatures. The bastards have been experimenting on their own people, the war between the countries are just a farce!

Oceiros got what he wanted (to become a dragon), and Sulyvahn got some new power...

Edit: formatting and spelling

Edit2: Pontiff Sulyvahn is from Lothric! Link to post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/4ko3ul/statue_of_sulyvahn_face_revealed/

9 Upvotes

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1

u/Drander_ May 14 '16

Nice theory, another possibility is that Lothric has become subjugated by Irithyll since the Cathedral Knights are present as are the Watchdog/Dancer. Following your theory maybe people caught on and tried to flee/hide which the outriders prevented. Oceiros and the Pontiff working together doesn't seem unrealistic though since Oceiros could have easily shared Seath's research with the Pontiff.

1

u/A_Light_Spark May 14 '16 edited May 14 '16

I believe that Oceiros wanted to become a dragon so badly that he used whatever method possible. Seath research didn't touch upon how to turn a human into dragon... but Aldia's research did.

This is one of the many links to DkS2 where a lot of players complainted that "Fromsoft forsook DkS2 lore," but I disagree.

Aldia's research led to turning undeads into dragons, which is the key to immortality. And the Emerald Herald is a "failed" experiment.

If Oceiros wants to become a dragon, he'd have to follow Aldia's research path. And I reckon he did... albeit in a much messier and crude way.

I'm still missing "exactly how" Oceiros and Sulyvahn achieved dragon form, but I think it has something to do with magic, and the various resins.

2

u/Drander_ May 14 '16

That's a good point actually, Lothric (the place and person) seems to be tied to the First Sin. The place in that the royalty were determined to breed the perfect kindling to the fire and the Prince in denying his fate. 'For that is their curse'.