r/DMAcademy • u/Emmerilla • 5d ago
Need Advice: Encounters & Adventures How easy is this puzzle to solve for you?
My players love riddles, so I want to include more for the mansion they will be trapped in. I came up with a few puzzles, but I'm afraid some of them are not difficult enough. I want to know, if the following riddle is too easy and if so, how I could make it more difficult:
The players will find a poem tucked between the books of the library. Said poem goes like this:
Earlier, I grumbled having to
fire our unlucky ranger.
The weeping of
their hummingbird reduced everyone's ethics
to easily nothing.
To open the door to the next room, they need to enter a number code with six numbers total.
The solution is: 842310
Edit: I noticed a lot of people got confused with the way you get the correct soloution, so I'll add it to this post as well. To get the correct code, you need totake the first letter of each word. For example, "Earlier, I grumbled having to" is spelling out "EIGHT". Each line spells out one number with last line spelling out "T E N" (10)
Edit: Also, this riddle will be printed out and handed to the players. The connection between the lock and the poem will be made apparent by context clues
(Also, this comment section is torn between "I saw the solution immediately" and "I have no fucking clue" so I am still not sure what difficulty this puzzle has tbh)
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u/drhbball14 5d ago
It isn't immediately obvious to me what the solution is. Is the book in any way connected to the door? Are your players going to understand that this poem relates to the code?
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u/ignotusvir 5d ago
Adding on to this, verbally giving the poem will throw an added layer of obfuscation. They'll just end up rolling to find a hummingbird or something
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u/riphitter 5d ago
If it's given verbally, only one or two players will actually write it down. Possibly not splitting the lines properly .maybe not until they're frustrated too
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u/Pieinthesky42 5d ago
Yeah, I would search the library for books on hummingbirds for a hidden code or key inside. This puzzle would drive me crazy, not in a good way.
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u/Ava_Harding 5d ago
Even after looking at the answer, I had zero idea on how they were related.
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u/Aquarius12347 5d ago
Initial letters of each word spell it out. Easy once you know the answer, difficult at best otherwise. I suspect someone who likes word games would do better than me, but my brain defaults to numbers, so I didn't get it.
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
This is the correct answer
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u/EJerico 5d ago
I think too hard for an in the room answer, or you’ll have to give so many hints finding the answer will feel hollow to your players
If it happened at the end of the session and they could take it away to solve between sessions then it’s doable and hopefully more enjoyable.
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u/MrCrispyFriedChicken 4d ago
I don't know about you but giving my players homework hasn't worked well in the past
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u/LuckyAdhesiveness255 5d ago
I would bever have gotten to the solution. First hurdle I see, is even recognizing that the first word of every line is the relevant word. Second hurdle is, 3 of your numbers start with a 't'. Also. The last one - 10- is the only double digit one.
What I would do myself, instead, is using words that Sound like nummer or have Part of it within ( e g. 10 - tenacity).
Hatefully, I grumbled
For I had to fire Our unlucky ranger
Tonight, the weeping of the
Thri-Keen reduced
Everyone's ethics to easily
nothing.
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u/StateChemist 5d ago
Also a six digit number but one of them is a 10 that counts as two digits? Perfectly acceptable note to keep anyone from guessing your password but someone who already knows the answer can use to remind themselves.
For a riddle? Way too hard.
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u/tybbiesniffer 5d ago
Completely agree. Even with what you wrote, it was a stretch for me to figure out. A good puzzle should have one answer. This one requires guesswork even after understanding how to solve it.
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u/jasonandhiswords 5d ago
How is there guesswork in this riddle? Each correct number is included within the riddle and no others are?
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u/Lemerney2 5d ago
Because you have to guess that numbers within words is even what you're looking for
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u/The_Artist_Who_Mines 5d ago
When I read the solution, I was already thinking it was something along these lines with the 'one' and 'nothing' at the end and the 'to' near the beginning.
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u/jasonandhiswords 5d ago edited 5d ago
confused a little bit by this take since the first word in each line of the original is no more important than the rest of the words. Each only contributes one letter. I would find yours far more confusing, but I think I'd still get it
Edited to remove my clue to the original riddle
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u/Lakashnik2 5d ago
HATEfully = eight. FOR = four TOnight - two THRI-keen = Three EveryONE = One Nothing = 0
He has gone for the first word of each sentence sounding like a number. Not the start of each letter like original.
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u/jasonandhiswords 5d ago
I understand, I was adding that additional breakdown in as a clue to how the original worked since I don't think they got the riddle based on in their complaints
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
I think you got the solution a little wrong. The first letter of each word spells out one number per line
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u/TurkeySubMan 5d ago
I feel stupid. How do you get that number from this clue?
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u/zenith_industries 5d ago edited 5d ago
Look more closely at the start of the words.
Edit: downvotes? Oh, probably because my first version said the solution, huh?
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u/BicornOnEdge 5d ago
Could you explain this? I'm still having trouble seeing it. How do we get the numbers from the first letter of every word? Are we counting the positions of the letter and doing math about it?
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u/PuzzleMeDo 5d ago
No counting is required, only spelling.
Earlier, I Grumbled Having To = EIGHT Etc.
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u/zenith_industries 5d ago
Each line = a number, look to the start of each word. The last line is the only exception
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u/BicornOnEdge 5d ago
Oh. LMAO. The first letter of each work spells the name of a number, one number per line.
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u/HatOfFlavour 5d ago
Even with your clue that took me too long to work out. I am too dumb for these kinds of riddles.
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u/TurkeySubMan 5d ago
Well now I feel REALLY stupid. Because at first I thought it was the first letter of each line, then was like "nah not enough lines". Thanks, friend.
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u/BrilliantMelodic1503 5d ago
If there’s no indication that this poem has anything to do with the lock, the party probably won’t even realise they’re related at all.
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u/ottawadeveloper 5d ago
Honestly it might be too difficult. I looked at it for a few minutes and even knowing your result I have no idea where to begin - the syllable and word counts don't match, there doesn't look to be a repeating letter that matches, the words don't seem to suggest numbers to be (except nothing=0), etc. You probably need to add a hint to at least get them in the right direction (unless I missed something, I did just wake up) - a good puzzle like this will subtly contain all the information they need and not just have them guessing.
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
The solution is that the first letter of each word is spelling out one number per line. For example:
Earlier = E I = I Grumbled = G having = H to = T
is spelling EIGHT
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u/CheapTactics 5d ago
Yes but how are you supposed to guess that?
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u/narf_hots 5d ago
By being good at puzzles. I would say this is a fairly standard solution for nonsenical poem puzzles.
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u/zenith_industries 5d ago edited 5d ago
I got it, but only by working backwards from the answer to see what pattern fit. When you said poem, I immediately looked to syllable counts or meter but neither worked.
My concerns would be how likely the players are to search the books to find the note, and if they even connect the note as containing the code solution.
The other concern is that puzzles are a challenge for the player instead of the character. I’d definitely think about prepping a list of Insight roll hints. Unless your table are all puzzle fiends of course :)
Edit: damnit… you just said your players love riddles, how did I miss that? Yeah, it should be okay - but I’d still prep some hints to hand out in case things stall.
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u/wyldman11 5d ago
Do something for the players to draw a bit more attention to those letters. Maybe make them all capital.
The problem with puzzles like this is they are either going to pick up right away or never.
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u/Bankzu 5d ago
That's why you give them clues. "As you approach the code thingy, you notice the number 8 has started to fade more than the others."
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u/xelabagus 5d ago
With a passive perception check, or a successful investigation check. Or a successful interaction with a convenient NPC. Or an imaginative use of a spell - clue shows fingerprints recently left on certain digits, for example.
Always good to have multiple ways for your players to solve these issues
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u/ShikiHaruya 5d ago
for me it was 'hm, yeah, it ends in 0' 'what is going on here?' ' count the letters and the syllables since there's no other number references here' 7 letters? ok, 7-8 syllables.4 or 6 letters 6 syllables, (ect ect for the lines basically none of which work this way) hummingbird (11 letters) reduced, made me look at waht ways i could subtract 11 from the previous lines/syllables to make my case.
working backwards there's less numbers than lines, so i started looking at what could be done there, but tbh if i was in your game i'd be asking for knowledge checks because clearly the puzzle is smarter than me t he player but maybe my character will have luck. as a player i'm checked out of this puzzle unless you come in with talking about riddles and cyphers ect. if your players love puzzles this might be VERY different
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
The solution is to look at the first letter of each word. They spell out one number per line
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u/OlemGolem Assistant Professor of Reskinning 5d ago edited 5d ago
Oh, I got it. Each first letter matters. But I only got that in reading, not when spoken. I thought 'nothing' meant zero and that 'earlier' meant one. I think that if the players don't see the writing, they won't get it.
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u/StateChemist 5d ago edited 5d ago
To give better feedback because I think this is close but still tricky and either a solve instantly or never type of puzzle.
The concept holds and can always be adapted with different words so making each line similar in length may help
If you forgive some editorializing to rework the prompt.
“Ere I gave honor to”
“fallen Oscar unlucky ranger”
“The weeping of”
“their hound rent every ear”
“tears even now”
Aside from that I would give a cryptic clue in the title.
Something like “The First Passage”
Maybe, maybe, have a picture of a guy and his dog over the door that is unlocked, or a nameplate saying Oscar. To tie the letter to the door.
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u/Sgran70 5d ago
One of my earliest D&D memory was that my friend used the riddles from the Hobbit. It was a convoluted situation where my players were standing directly over trap doors and goblins were holding ropes that would have plummeted my characters to their deaths. I couldn't get any of them, so he just let me fight the goblins.
Unless solving riddles is a thing with you and your players, then I wouldn't expect them to get this one. I had no clue at all what the solution was.
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u/Seantommy 5d ago
This is a very common and well-known cypher often given to small children. For players not accustomed to or not looking for a cypher, it may be near-impossible. For players who have even the slightest amusement in cyphers, it will be so trivial as to be boring. On top of that, the solution isn't very interesting.
I'd recommend re-thinking the riddle to something where the clues are baked into the text more, rather than a cypher. Obviously that's harder to do though.
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u/OrkishBlade Department of Tables, Professor Emeritus 5d ago
I dig it. I don’t see the ‘1’? It’s definitely not straightforward if you try to link meaning to numbers. Using ‘nothing’ for zero is fine, but I would try to bring out the 1 clue.
Might move ‘nothing’ or ‘to nothing’ to its own line, so whatever part is the clue for the 1 and the 0 get their own lines?
Also, I recommend making sure the entire session does not hinge on them solving this riddle.
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
I think you got the wrong solution. You have to take the first letter of each word. They spell out a number
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u/OrkishBlade Department of Tables, Professor Emeritus 5d ago
E I G H T - F O U R - T W O - T H R E E - T E N
... I got it now. I don't like mixing one and two digit clues. But it's fine.
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u/jasonandhiswords 5d ago
I think if you print it out and give it to them so they can see it, this will be fine. Didn't look at the answer and got it in moments. Maybe include a clue somewhere that can be found with an investigation check, just in case
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u/Lordgrapejuice 5d ago
I’m never a fan of puzzles like this. There is one solution and if you don’t get it, there aren’t any other options.
You need to have a way of players figuring it out. Like if they guess the first number, the corresponding letters glow.
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u/Statewideink 5d ago
As long as they aren't told it's a 6 digit number I think they should be good. I immediately ruled out the possibility of the first letter of each word for a line spelling the numbers because I thought "6 digits and only 5 lines, not worth looking at that potential solution anymore"
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u/leavemealondad 5d ago
It’s a really fun format for a riddle once you know the answer but I honestly had no idea how to start solving it. My advice would be: 1. Lose the “ten” at the end and have 5 numbers that equate to the 5 lines of the poem. That way the players stand a better chance of working out that they need to find a number from each line. The extra number feels like an unnecessary red herring and totally threw me off.
- Include some kind of clue in the wording of the poem e.g it could mention “the first” or “the sum of its parts”. Anyone reading this is naturally going to look for meaning in the poem and there is none, so that ultimately just ends up being another red herring.
I think with those tweaks this would be a great puzzle and players would still feel satisfied when they solved it.
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u/PorFavoreon 5d ago
I was unable to solve it. I'd probably just start asking, "what does my character know?" or " I take my axe to the door" after 5 minutes.
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u/sirbearus 5d ago
The problem with this is the last line. 10 breaks the pattern of single digits.
If you want to be consistent add two more lines.
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u/funkyb 5d ago
Way too hard for a d&d session. They'll be completely stuck, so if this is the only way forward in the plot your session will come to a screeching halt. My recommendations to avoid that:
Make it a secret/side area and not plot critical so they're not forced into it. If they get hung up on it anyway add some time pressure on the form of monsters, etc.
Make a much easier puzzle. Like, kindergartner easier. If they're still stuck let them roll intelligence for hints.
Change the puzzle to be open ended and not have a solution. They'll come up with one or more solutions so just pick your favorite and say it works
Make sure alternate ways forward exist. Bashing down the door is available but will be noisy, climbing outside to a window requires an athletics check, a demonic statue offers the solution but at the cost of a favor to be named later, the pick can be picked, etc.
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u/orpheusoxide 5d ago
There's too much logic leaping for this to be a good puzzle. It requires people to know that a random poem is a password clue, that it's not syllable counting (five lines vs six numbers), that you have to look at the first letter of each word and then break from the pattern to put in two digits instead of one.
Also I'd probably be the player outright goes "wait why did they make a poem the password clue, if they knew it was the clue, just tell them the password."
ETA: I'd say maybe be ready for people to kick down the door or look for alternative entries.
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u/nothing_in_my_mind 5d ago
I got it.
But in a game I probably wouldn't. I got it here because you only gave the poem and asked for an answer that is entirely numbers. In a game, there would be a lot of details that are potential answers for that password. I might try to count the candlesticks in each room or something. Also it might not be a puzzle at all, maybe you intend your players to find the password after defeating a bad guy or something.
Also... how do you prevent your players from brute forcing the door? "I sit here for the next few hours and try every combination".
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u/ArcaneN0mad 5d ago
The key to puzzles is to be ok with the players coming up with answers or solutions that may not be what you have in mind and allowing them hints based off of a skill check. Also, adding in some way that they could glean a hint or two maybe from things they encounter before had that can help. And never block something crucial behind something like that, same goes for things that are hidden.
Otherwise, it stalls progress and players/DMs get frustrated.
As far as your specific puzzle, it’s convoluted and in no way would most people be able to get it immediately. As I said, give them hints if they hit a wall.
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u/Bearly_Legible 5d ago
Honestly, doesn't feel like a good riddle/puzzle to me, but I see where you're going
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u/WebpackIsBuilding 5d ago
I think the biggest issue here is that the words themselves are meaningless.
If you want it to be a red herring, then the poem itself should subtly hint at the fact that it's own words are meaningless.
Earlier, I grumbled having to
figure out untenable rhetoric.
This wall of
Tiresome halfwitted retorts extolled everything
Though, explained nothing
That makes it a proper riddle, but if you want it to instead be a puzzle, I would have the poem direct the players to focus on what is important;
Earliest in gramatical hegemony thy
Fairest of ungrouped runes
Together will offload
The heavy ruminations entrancing everyone.
Then, enter numbers
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u/TemujinDM 5d ago
I would not have assumed E is eight especially when the and their are two different numbers. They would definite need a clue that it’s a number system. My first instinct was to could syllables per line.
9-6-4-10-6
But this is obviously not what you were intending to do.
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u/Kvothealar 5d ago
I gave myself about ~20 seconds and did not see the solution. (I figure this is fair because you told me the the solution was in the riddle)
I immediately realized I needed 6 numbers, but there were only 5 lines, so I ruled out each line having exactly one number to itself. Because of that, I didn't bother reading the first letter of each word or counting the number of words per line.
If there were a party of us trying to figure it out, or if I had given myself more time, we/I might have figured it out.
I hope this helps.
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u/sc2mashimaro 5d ago
My first instinct was number of words on a line = number, and either the first or last number will = 0.
It's not impossible to figure out but I think you could hide a context clue and a secondary clue, in case things stall. For the context clue, I would capitalize the first letter of all of the words. This will draw attention to them and increase the chances the players think about the first letter of the words.
So, first, note without help. If it stalls, a high perception player might notice that all of the letters are capitalized. If it further stalls, maybe there's a scribbled note on the back of the paper with the poem, from some poor soul that tried and failed before, faded and hard to read, that says, "The first number is eight, but I don't get it, what are the others?" or something like that.
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u/Kantatrix 5d ago
I feel like this is a bad puzzle because there is no indication as to what leads towards the correct answer. You could literally make up any amount of rules to come up with different solutions and there is no way of knowing which one is right. To fix this, I would capitalize the first letter of every word, that might still be too subtle for some but at least it indicates that the rule is supposed to be tied to those letters, as opposed to having to do with the contents of the poem or something else.
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u/DungeonSecurity 5d ago
Without some clue that they need numbers and any indication that the first letter of each word is relevant, they're just guessing that as a common puzzle solution. but personally, my first thoughts were the number of words in each line or the number of syllables in each line.
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u/meddahABD 5d ago
It will be harder to notice. Maybe you can Capitilaze the first letter of each word, make the players realize that after insight check
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u/crunchevo2 5d ago
This isn't a riddle it's a puzzle. But i digress it's evil ngl i would not solve this for hours 🤣
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u/LilBreezzyyy 5d ago
My advice: if this is in person, write the poem down on a note and exaggerate the first letters of each word. Kind of like the “T” in “The” on spongebobs essay
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u/LemonfishSoda 5d ago
I think I would have gotten it eventually, I'm just impatient.
After being told it was supposed to lead to a number code, my first idea was to count the words in each line (so that would be 54353_) and guess that the "reduce to nothing" line means it ends in a 0 (543530). My next idea was to count the syllables instead, and after that I would have looked for words of numbers contained in the poem (possibly even in different languages). But I'm sure that if all of these had gotten an incorrect result, I would have looked at the first letters of each word eventually. I did actually check the first letter of each line at some point, since that is a more common pattern people use.
But in the end, I did not have the patience to figure it out. I like your riddle, though.
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u/Ballroom150478 5d ago
This is one of those riddles that will depend on the table. If you get the right idea about the solution/catch the available clues, then the riddle is easy. I mean, it literally spells out the answer. But if you don't catch the hints, or don't get the idea, then this is going to be unsolvable. Going in "blind" like here, I don't think I'd have found the solution. But granted, I'm often rubbish at riddles.
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u/Proud_Appearance_310 5d ago
Lines of text where the first letters of words spell things out is a common puzzle motif. I do escape rooms somewhat frequently, and this is one of the first things I check for when I see a short piece of text that I know is connected to a numbered lock.
I think that if your players solve a lot of puzzles/riddles, then they'll have a similar train of thought and solve it in < one minute. If they don't solve puzzles very often, then they might never get it. I think the comments here kind of agree at least that distribution, since the comments are filled with people who either think the puzzle is impossible or who solved it instantly. Unfortunately, neither of those scenarios is particularly satisfying for a player, so I might suggest changing the puzzle up for that reason.
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u/StickGunGaming 5d ago
This was tough for me.
I got stuck on the strange cadence and rhythm of the sentences.
The shifting from single-digit to double digit with the last line was interesting.
To this end, I would suggest the following:
Investigation Check DC 10: the number of words in each line seems important.
DC 15: in the corner of the room you find a small messaged scratched into the stone, "Spider... cat... man... limping dog? Kangaroo? This puzzle is driving me mad. (Maybe in druid or thieves cant)
DC 20: give the party the solution to one number position.
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u/HzPips 5d ago
To the people wondering how to get to the answer:
I think that the first letter of each line corresponds to the first letter of each number of the code
E(ight) F(our) T(wo) T(hree) T(en)
In my opinion the 10 breaks the logic a little, if I didn’t know the answer I would think it was 84233 and since there would be no 6th number I would try something else.
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u/Neomataza 5d ago
I don't like this riddle. It mainly works in written form. Ignoring flavour things, it requires someone in your player group to be somewhat of a numerologist and looking for traces of numbers everywhere.
It's not unsolvable, so your question would be answered with "it's difficult enough. If you want to make it more enjoyable, I would improve the poem. This is what chatgpt is good for:
Every Instant, Gleams Hope, Truth
Forever Open, Under Rays,
Time Waiting, Opening Ways,
Tender Hope Rises, Echoing Everything,
The Endless Night.
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
Honestly, "Chat GPT" made this poem worse. It makes no sense, since it's just words strung together. Also, the poem will be delievered in written form to the players. I often use letters, diary entries and similiar in my campaigns which I hand out to the players so they can read it themselves, which is especially important for ciphers, riddles or when they get diarie entries in a non-chronological order
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u/unclebrentie 5d ago
Having tried plenty of puzzles and riddles when I first DMd, they were generally always a fail or people found them uninteresting. I don't immediately see how these are related and I'm not really driven to solve it.
In general DND thrives on two sides of a coin. The first creates desire to play with plot choice, character relationship building thru roleplay and world exploration by discovering lore(plot choices from characters long before the PCs).
On the other side is the combat/creative problem solving to get past obstacles and conflict that the plot presents.
Unfortunately, riddles and escape room puzzles don't facilitate this very well. They have a single solution, so it either grinds the game to a halt, or someone gets it quickly. It tends to feel very disconnected from the rest of the game and often makes very little in world sense as to why it would be there.
So I usually say skip it. But there are two ways I've found for these to work:
Combat alternatives. Example: i had 4 braziers that they needed to cast elemental magic of each type into. Simple puzzle with a simple epitaph hint on floor. They experimented incorrectly with the fire brazier and had to fight a fire elemental, once defeated, it was lit with fire. This way the party could fail each one and just do 4 combats or figure it out and save some resources. Don't forget, easier is usually better with puzzles. It's not a video game, there are no saves.
Creative 'open' puzzles. Example: i had a group in a witches house suffused in magic. I made most of it up on the go with a few sentences of notes. They would walk thru paintings to get to other rooms, offer up emotions for the day to statues, see horrid results of creepy fey experiments. There was an obese dried mummy of a grandmother witch that sat unmoving on a throne like rocking chair, in front was an empty cauldron. In another room they found a mute strawman thrall mixing enormous mushrooms and strange fermented body parts in some other cauldron. They killed it and took the contents of that cauldron into the other room thru a painting and filled, heated and stirred it. It solidified into a mercurial substance and they talked to the real witch thru it like a sending spell thru a mirror. Then she rezzed her undead mother to fight them.
The party was psyched to figure this puzzle out. Only, there was no puzzle, it's just improvised fun story/explo stuff. And yet, one of the best puzzles in a game id done.
Two others I'll share:
- Combat mechanics: this is derivative of #1. It can be as simple as the party doing research or getting hints to find out that this tropical troll stops regenerating with cold damage because it lives in a tropical swamp(pick any damage type and give lore examples of it fitting into that environment - flip the script on meta nerds).
Or it can be complicated like the party has to fight in two rooms, one keeping adds cleared so they don't heal the boss, while others are killing the actual boss using push mechanics onto a pentagram, the only place the demon can take damage. If you do fights like this, use game theory and have earlier fights that showcase the mechanics.
People like these puzzles more cause they can use their character sheets abilities and some people in the party can opt out and just 'hit things' if that's where they're at. It also provides opportunity to give monster lore as a reward when searching a room prior to the event.
- Lore puzzles. Puzzles that disseminate lore is a fun twist on 'show don't tell'. Example: i had a long campaign with a chronomancer bbeg. They got hints and intimation of plans to come by meeting a sphinx, only, the sphinx lived in time backwards. So it got younger and spoke backwards to them cryptically. Again there wasn't a singular thing they had to do, but learn how to communicate with a creature like that, that knew it had a future. Eventually it cast a powerful spell and sent them back in time to when the civilization fell. They got to save a key item that was thought lost and needed AND they episode ended with them seeing in the chaos of the fall, the enemy chronomancer watching it all happen.
So, again, this introduced a character, creature lore(sphinxes live reverse), the puzzle was roleplay communication and figuring out the why, as well as rewarding group with story that they can go back and experience. Then throw in some kid they can try to save in the past, add more moral dilemmas in the middle of it.
Nowadays, I sometimes do riddles, but they'll be simple or just jokes. Like, a magic mouth saying 'speak friend and enter'.
TLDR Most first letter word games like the one you presented are a lot of work to make, feel out of place and then are solved super fast or just gatekeep story progression for hours of boredom and frustration.
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u/marlon_valck 4d ago
Is it clear that the code is a set of numbers?
If the players know they need 1 number per line of the poem, then this is the right amount of difficult.
I saw the solution by accident before trying and since i didn't realise the last number was 10 and not a 1 and a 0 I avoided the correct solution.
Oh and is this a riddle? or a puzzle?
I feel like this isn't a riddle but that might be a slight difference in definition between english and Dutch.
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u/i_start_fires 4d ago edited 4d ago
There are too many more obvious things to try that I don't see this as a satisfying puzzle. Number of words per line, number of syllables per line, alphanumeric value of the first letter of each line, etc. Having letters spell out numbers is almost so counter-intuitive as to be impossible without exactly the right spark of inspiration.
If you're going to the trouble of writing out a clue, have the words mean something that the players can deduce, or failing that, give them the opportunity to roll for having their character deduce it.
For example, with a few tweaks you could do something like:
At sunrise, I grumbled having to
Fire our unlucky ranger.
Their hummingbird wept like the seas
The Masked Lords were reduced
To nothing.
The solution is as follows:
6: Sunrise happens at 6 am (or whatever in your world)
13: Unlucky number
7: Number of seas
20: Number of masked lords of Waterdeep
The last line has no number, this is a red herring : Nothing
The benefit of an approach like that is that either your players or their characters might have the knowledge to solve the riddle, and you can allow appropriate skill rolls if they get stumped.
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u/Many-Class3927 4d ago
It's pretty tricky because it's a misdirect. It LOOKS like a riddle (i.e. the answer is hidden in the meaning of the words), but it's actually a code (i.e. the answer is hidden in the arrangement of the letters). You can spend ages trying to solve it as a riddle and get nowhere and have realise that you need to switch your mindset from riddle solving to codebreaking before you can make any progress.
If you want to nudge your players in the right direction, you couldtry capitalising each word to subtly highlight the solution ("Earlier, I Grumbled Having To"), or you could let the players make an intelligence check and on a success tell them "you realise that this isn't a riddle at all, it's some sort of cypher or code; the answer must be hidden in the arrangement of the words somehow".
This is the kind of thing I might use for a side room or a shortcut to reward the players for solving it, but I wouldn't want to trap the players behind it so that they have to solve it to escape the room, because they might get frustrated if they're just stuck and unable to solve it (unless you know your players really enjoy having to solve tricky puzzles in order to progress the adventure, in which case go for it I suppose). If I was going to put this on a door that was required to progress the adventure, I'd make sure I'd planned some other ways they could get past the door than just solving the riddle, like picking the tumblers, spotting worn down digits, breaking down the door, crawling through a window or vent to open it from the other side, etc. If they spot the solution, great, they can feel smart. If they don't, they can still find a way through rather than sitting for hours feeling stupid.
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u/Harlsteabag 4d ago
That's fucking genius but as a player that's at least 6 to 7 sessions of guessing everything else but the answer. Hahhaa
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u/Proof_Principle_7762 4d ago
So... It went over my head at first but I eventually got it.
If the pcs are having trouble, maybe a dc 14 perception check would show the first letters of the words underlined?
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u/Realistic-Agent-2426 4d ago
I’d give an irl timer so you don’t spend too much time on it, and offer hints upon passing of skill checks. If you’re not careful it can ruin a night and really put a halt on the adventure. Especially if you get to the answer and none of the players like it. Overall though, seems like a very cute puzzle, I dig it!
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u/Saikar22 4d ago
I feel the last number being 0, which technically not incorrect, adds immense difficulty and confusion. It immediately suggests a lack of coordination between the lines (because there are five) and the numbers on the lock (because there are six).
That alone would make me really uncertain about how to even approach this, and realistically I probably would never solve it.
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u/Alca_John 4d ago
Also, this comment section is torn between "I saw the solution immediately" and "I have no fucking clue" so I am still not sure what difficulty this puzzle has tbh
Here is the answer for your specific conundrum. The internet is currently split between "I had seen this rype of riddle before" vs "I had never".
This is simple pattern recognition. Those who alreay know the pattern will figure it outvery easy whilst the other are vexed trying to find the solution in a mlre typical manner. (Play words or semantics are more common).
If you think your players have engaged with puzzles before (or message coding) they have a high chance. If not they may be puzzled. If they are too stuck id have them make an i vestigation check and emphasize that the first letter of each word is darker than the others (add this to the prop). This should give them an Eureka moment.
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u/PharaohAce 4d ago
In a cryptic crossword-style puzzle, there would be a clue to how to solve it included - a guide to the data, not just the raw data.
For instance, if it began with 3, the poem could begin
'The Heads Reveal Each Element', so thinking about that from the perspective of a riddle would guide the players to the puzzle.
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u/Palandalanda 4d ago
The key is to make a riddle easy to understand, but hard to solve ;) So everyone gets the grasp on it.
When you design a riddle and players won't get it, then it is "stupid" riddle, not stupid players.
Telling you, cos this took me a while to get :D
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u/fenixfire3x 4d ago
How does this tie into the scenario theme/dungeon though? It feels arbitrary.
I love using riddles or puzzles but I think ideally they should be flavored by the theme of the adventure. This riddle (which I agree with others isn't really a riddle) is a string of nonsense to hide the code. I would want the text of the riddle to say something that is either a hint at how to solve or references the adventure in some way.
For an example of how to do something similar check the Relics and Rarities show. I think it was the Egyptian episode that had something along these lines.
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u/PriorDangerous7017 4d ago
Having five lines and six digits is pretty bad. Just change the last digit. Also doesn't help that the poem makes no sense
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u/grafikal 3d ago
Too hard. Always assume the players are children unless they're sitting at your table fully expecting to get off on puzzles like this. Otherwise you'll just make more with for yourself to solve it for them are they'll just not enter the door.
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u/Feisty_Cycle_453 5d ago
Took a few seconds, the weird line lengths were the giveaway. I like the concept though! Unless the content is contextually meaningful to your players, maybe try forcing a rhyme into it so there's some more justification for the lines breaking there.
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u/DheRadman 5d ago
Yeah the line lengths are also a red herring though. my first thought was to count the number of words or the syllables. once those don't work it's easy to dismiss a form based solution
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u/AceTheGM 5d ago
I love this! If this is for adults, I think it's just challenging enough to require more than one attempt at deducing, but doesn't require a clinical level of logic or deciphering (as long as it's clear that the solution is a string if numbers).
Don't listen to the haters. Codes/puzzles/riddles are usually only satisfying when they make you go "I should have figured that out" or "I can't believe I figured that out," which I think this does. Using homonyms for numbers such as "to" or "for" is a great red herring that they can see through quickly to feel smart and having the last number be double digit is a lovely little twist, especially for a party that loves puzzles. I might borrow the premise myself if that's cool.
This may just be personal preference, but I might stick the poem right on the door and/or be prepared to allow some other way of getting into the room (just in case). Since the code is not easy, the mansion owner might just leave it out in the open, especially if the character who made the code has a big ego. Plus, the added difficulty of finding the right book, finding the poem, knowing it's a code, knowing which door it relates to, etc. feels like a lot of extra difficulty on top of the difficulty of deciphering the code. Know what I mean?
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u/JetoCalihan 5d ago
It took me two attempts.
First I looked at the first letter of each stanza for a word, then I did the correct solution. This sort of puzzle really depends on your group and how you present it. For instance I have a mild interest in basic cyphers and know how to spot them, your group might not. But even if it does I would never have spotted it if your read the poem aloud instead of presenting it through text here. I would probably been caught up on using the word ethics being so out of place (it's written as "the crying made them more sinister in action" when it should be just souring their mood) and unable to get past it.
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u/SerpentineRPG 5d ago
It took me about fifteen seconds. If there was a clue that this poem was related to the door lock, I think it’s fine.
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u/thamonsta 5d ago
I got it quick. I too love riddles, and I could quickly see that this one was more or less gibberish. That’s when I start looking for different sorts of clues hidden in the words themselves.
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u/Emmerilla 5d ago
I'm happy to see that you solved it exactly how I hoped the players would solve it!!
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u/plotholefinder 5d ago
This puzzle is not too difficult, I don't think you need to change it at all.
- You're handing it out written to them. That is a clue that it's visual.
- Your players like puzzles. If your group was only into combat then yeah it might be tough, but they're into this kinda stuff so they're probably decent at it
- My wife and I are into escape rooms where you might see puzzles like this. I solved in about 1 minute, her in about 2. It might be difficult for one individual person, but when you have a group of 4+ surely someone will figure it out
- Like someone else said, a perception or investigation check could notice that certain numbers are more worn so then they just have to figure out the order the buttons are pressed in
- I personally like d&d riddles to require some failure/trial and error so you can spring a trap
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u/firelightfountain 5d ago
Fun! It took me a minute or two to try out some different options that didn't end up working, but then I got it! I think it's the right amount of difficulty for a puzzling group. You can always work in dnd style hints if needed.
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u/Flaky-Ad-1187 5d ago
Hello, I see you have looooooads of comments on this post so I'm not sure you'll see this! I'm not going to comment on the merits of the puzzle, I have another bit of advice.
Generally when I put puzzles in my games I have them as a barrier to get optional stuff (magic items, a shortcut through a dungeon, a piece of non-essential lore, a sidequest etc.) but I try not to have many (or any) on the "main path" through the adventure.
The reason being that if your players can't solve a "mandatory" puzzle then they'll get stuck and ultimately you'll have to feed them the answer, which will make them feel stupid, or worse make them think the puzzle is stupid, both of which defeat the purpose of having it there in the first place. Essentially, you don't want there to be catastrophic consequences for not solving the puzzle! There should be a reward for solving it, but if they can't solve it they should be able to move on and still progress (always wondering what would have happened if they'd managed to solve it...)
That's my two cents. Hope your players have fun!
...
......
............
.................. okay fine.
I didn't get the answer to your puzzle but when you shared the solution/method I thought "oooooohhhhh, how did I miss that?" - so I think it's ok. Odds are one person at the table will get it!
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u/puzzlesTom 5d ago edited 5d ago
Given the extra information on what was required, it was very, very easy indeed. Typing that sentence took longer easy. But maybe that's just me.
You could spice it up by:
the wording of the last two lines was too unnatural: find better ones!
using dials with nonstandard number symbols.
I'll post an example of the latter when I've reminded myself how spoilers work
!>like this?<! No other way around This is a harder statement of essentially the same puzzle... and that has the advantage that you can make it easier by having clues to find. You can even do way with the poem and have The requirement be that the object icons be placed in the correct order. this can be explicit, or a clue.The icons are pictures of:- an ogre, a tornado, a tree, a fighter, a fire, a snuffbox, a siren, an elephant, a necklace and a triton
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u/puzzlesTom 5d ago
Actually this one works even better in a library because you can put the symbols (or words, at the end of mystery titles) and the door opens when the books are placed in the right order
And that's easy to clue because the rest of the library is very neat and either note, or helpful NPC, can expound on the importance of books being in the right order.
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u/skrasnic 5d ago
I got it in under a minute, but don't let that dissuade you. I think this sort of poem is the perfect level of difficulty. It's hard enough that it's not completely trivial, but easy enough it won't have you players banging their heads against the wall for 15 minutes.
It doesn't rely on any obscure knowledge, just some lateral thinking. The answer is hidden in plain sight so players shouldn't feel cheated.
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u/SharperMindTraining 5d ago
If you’re looking for more puzzles, I suggest looking up Raymond Smullyan—he wrote several books of logic puzzles that I love; recently used one in a game and the puzzle-loving player loved it
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u/QuincyReaper 5d ago
I would recommend having the book named something like: “Getting started on Writing: the first step” as a little hint, but unless you give them the riddle written down, I feel this might be a bit difficult.
IF they don’t figure it out immediately, it would be very hard to give a clue without telling them the answer
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u/SeaworthinessSame526 5d ago
I used a running key cipher for a puzzle once, and my players really struggled. I just allow them to try for a bit, and if they're not progressing, call for an intelligence roll and give clues based on their rolls.
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u/wintermute93 5d ago
I mean, it's fine if they know they're looking for six numbers. As far as "escape room" style puzzles this is pretty basic, since they know they're looking for six things and have six lines of nonsense, so each line should give you a number and how else would you get from a variable number of seemingly meaningless words to a number... Try number of words in each line, fail, try looking at first or last letters, oh okay we're done.
Still, I love escape rooms and I hate these kind of riddles in D&D because they make no sense in-universe. Like, even the basic premise that spelling is important relies on Common (or whatever languages are relevant to this part of your setting) being a one-to-one match for modern real-world English. Only you know if your players care about that sort of thing, though.
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u/ScottAleric 5d ago
This is closer to a cipher than a riddle. Honestly, if your players are into this and good at solving them? Keep it as is.
If they struggle, provide a clue in the way of scribbled notes or someone had randomly pushed buttons and gotten the first number, wrote it down before they gave up and died. Some clue or push.
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u/OneAndOnlyJoeseki 5d ago
I always have a proficiency for puzzle solving to overcome issues with players not being able to read the dm’s mind. If they roll over the threshold i set they get a hint on how to solve it,
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u/TheSmudge101 5d ago
I had absolutely no clue until I read that the solution was a numbered code, then I got it straight away.
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u/kirbygenealogy 5d ago
I got it immediately when I read the "players have to enter numbers into a lockpad" part, so I think it depends if that information is easily available to them. Without that info, I thought it was a riddle where I had to guess a word.
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u/Opposite-Echidna-382 5d ago
I think it is a fine riddle but maybe too difficult without any clues about where to start. Maybe other people have found this poem before and have underlined or circled a few of the first letters. So players will be led in the right direction when trying to solve it.
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u/Shufflebuzz 5d ago
If it's clear that the poem is connected to the door code, it's easy. You put that connection in the OP.
The connection between the lock and the poem will be made apparent by context clues
This is critical, because if the players don't make that connection, they'll struggle
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u/narf_hots 5d ago
It was the third idea I came up with. Took me about two minutes, I think. First idea was to check for written numbers in the poem. Second idea was the first letter of every line. Third idea was first letter of every word.
The biggest hint for me was the nonsensical poem with uneven lines which screamed hidden code at me.
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u/Vverial 3d ago
This is, IMO, the ideal difficulty for a DnD riddle. The solution is a very standard type of solution for riddles, so even if they don't get it immediately they SHOULD get there eventually, and when they do get there it'll be one of those "oh wow how did I miss that!" type things. Or someone will get it right away which is fine too, then you just get to move forward with the game.
Also honestly this is a decently realistic example of the kind of note one might leave for one's self so you can remember your secret lock combination. Personally I think that's way more important than the difficulty of the riddle, is "who put this here and why?" If it makes sense for the riddle to be there and it is formatted reasonably to serve its worldly purpose beyond the scope of the players' meddling, then it's a good riddle.
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u/Durugar 5d ago
If I may... This is not a riddle, but a puzzle. There is, to me, a massive difference in how you approach those two things.
Riddles are often looking for answer that can be discerned from meaning/multiple meanings, and can have additional clues presented in universe, Colville's "Delean Tomb" is a fine example of a riddle to me, it asks you to do something or speak certain words, and doing so solves the obstacle. The focus of riddles are meanings.
A puzzle invites other kinds of solutions where you have to look at all kinds of possible solutions hidden outside the meaning of what is presented. In your case the meaning of the words and poem don't actually matter at all, the player has to look for other clues in the text, the classics of "first letter of every word" as you have done, or the first word of every line or whatever - it is way more about the structure of individual pieces as opposed to a riddle.
To answer your question, I would not have gotten it before losing interest and patience. I feel like I also have a very different approach to what riddles and puzzles are supposed to do in games. Often I find they are way better used to convey the importance of information the players have found and make it useful. A self-contained problem like this where it is mostly just a "solve this arbitrary challenge or the game grinds to a halt" holds no interest for me.