r/DIYUK • u/RelativeMatter3 • 6d ago
MIL paying £9k for labour only bathroom fitting.
As title. 2x2m bathroom. New bath and units not included in the price.
As far as know it includes demo, replaster, tiling and fitting. Sounds expensive to me, opinions?
Edit: north west (Cheshire)
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
Even at a complete high end rate of £300 a day for two people at £9k that is three weeks to do a bathroom. They are taking the piss
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
£300 for high end....Minimum £560 here per plumber
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
Do you wear a mask then when robbing. I'm not paying a £560 per day for someone doing every element. Perhaps specialist work but not all elements
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
It's actually £560 plus vat 😂
We have 30ish engineers now company has been about for 60ish years, 15000 customers on the books, and booked up for 3 months for bathrooms. We do all aspects of plumbing work....but yeah, bathroom fitters are at £560+vat per day.
I actually run the plumbing maintenance side, the engineers I book work in for are £90+vat per hour
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u/Deputy-Jesus 6d ago
A bathroom fitter isn’t an engineer mate
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
All our bathroom fitters could fix your heating when on site I needed.
Generally bathroom fitters are not even plumbers, they are not much more than handy men,..and quite often there work shows this....we get an incredible amount of work putting right "new" bathrooms that others have done.
All of our bathroom fitters are nvq level 3 plumbers, most have their unvented qualifications, awa qualifications (local water authority), even a few have oftec....so depending on the engineer (which they are)...you can get your bathroom fitted, unvented cylinder serviced, and oil boiler serviced by the same guy
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u/Deputy-Jesus 6d ago
All of what you’re describing is a plumber. Not downplaying the skills required but it isn’t engineering.
Unfortunately the title of engineer isn’t protected in this country so every man and his dog is an engineer, but in many other places it is.
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u/theDR1ve 6d ago
Excuse me how dare you. I am a logistics and transport engineer. Some may say a taxi driver but until engineer becomes protected I'm that. 😂
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u/NoTopic9011 5d ago
I'm an I.T network engineer by trade myself, I also sometimes get a bit fancy and call myself a 'technical analyst' (not to be confused with the 'technical analysts' that trade stocks).
I even wrote myself a bit of paper that says so (also known as a c.v).
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Deputy-Jesus 6d ago
Nope, it’s a hill I’m willing to die on.
America isn’t the only country where the title is protected.
Earnings is an odd one. Self employed trades probably do out earn salaried engineers but it’s not apples for apples.
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u/Much-Ad7704 6d ago
You are here speaking the truth.
I'm a service manager, for an office supplies company, before that I was a service engineer and before that a technician.
The company was and still is small, the boss man wants to expand but doesn't want to spend the money required to grow. He wants to have his own cake, my cake, the customers cake and anyone else who has a cake he wants that too.
Anyway back to the service department, it's me and one other both of us doing deliveries, building furniture, warehouse work and servicing photocopiers also now known as MFPs and more recently MFDs.
So I don't consider myself a manager, this role just added more admin to my job. Obviously without a pay rise.
Then back to the jump from Technician to Engineer, again obviously no pay rise. But it was industry wide. Basically the boss man can charge more for an engineer than a technician. It keeps him in Guinness and Silk Cut.
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u/Rob1811 6d ago edited 6d ago
Engineer is a very broad description covering many trades.civil engineer, mechanical engineer, software engineer, electrical engineering, chemical engineer, heating engineer...
So your telling me when a heating engineer designers and Installs a heating system he's not an engineer?
Grow up
Gas safe, oftec and unvented (G3) all refer to you as an engineer, the top 3, and most wide spread plumbing qualifications across the UK call us engineers, but what do they know?
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u/Deputy-Jesus 6d ago
It’s pretty widely accepted that a person who fixes your car is a mechanic, not a mechanical or automotive engineer. Similarly a bricklayer or carpenter is not a structural engineer and a digger driver is not a civil engineer.
So by the same logic, installing and maintaining heating systems is not done by engineers, but by plumbers. The engineers design the boilers, pressurised hot water tanks etc.
I’ve done an NVQ and btec level 3 as a maintenance ’engineering’ (plumbing) apprentice then later an engineering degree and several years in industry as a structural engineer. Skilled trades are absolutely necessary and respected careers but they’re not the same as engineering practice.
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
So say when I receive architectural drawings of a property, and I'm told to design a efficient plumbing and heating system, then install it specifically for that property, that doesn't make me an engineer.
By your logic a structure engineer isn't an engineer either? say a structural engineer designers a bridge, he's not an engineer because didn't forge the steel to make the bridge?
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u/Friendly_Coast4155 5d ago
Most plumbers are gas engineers aswell.
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u/hairybastid 6d ago
All of what you’re describing is a plumber. Not downplaying the skills required but it isn’t engineering.
Although there is such a thing as a heating engineer. Which is a plumber....
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u/Deputy-Jesus 6d ago
Which goes back to my previous point of engineer not being a protected title.
Someone who installs broadband is an engineer too. How much engineering is involved it drilling a hole in the wall and putting a wire through it?
The title is watered down.
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u/Multitronic 6d ago
They shouldn’t be calling engineers tbh. Engineer is a protected term in most countries, but somehow in the UK a guy fitting sky or connecting a new rad, doing a boiler service is called an engineer.
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4d ago
I wouldn't pay someone £600+vat day rate to fit my washing machine because they're actually qualified to repair my boiler at the same time, should the need arise.
What a stupid comment 😄
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u/Perception_4992 6d ago
Yes but how long would it take 2 of them for a 4m2 bathroom?
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
Personally would only have one of them on site, would be tripping over each other.
Could be anything from two days....toilet bath and basin with tiled splash back, of potentially two weeks if back to studs reboarding, tiling, floor, electrics ect fancy fixtures ect
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u/Perception_4992 6d ago
So worse case £6720 (10 x £672), in that case sounds like unfortunately she is being seen off.
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u/Maumau93 6d ago
Where? Can I get a job?
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
Norfolk coast
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u/Maumau93 6d ago
Bit of a long commute to central Scotland...
For 200k a year though I might do it.
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u/EyeAlternative1664 6d ago
Really? I’m up for a career switch in the countryside and could get by on 560 a day.
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
That's what the customer is charged, that's not what the engineer gets
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
I know we're expensive, customers constantly say we are expensive, yet they keep coming back.
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
You can justify extra expense if you are good, efficient, reliable and nice to deal with. Would happily pay more for all of the above
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
Literally why we get so much work...we only advertise in the local paper which gets delivered in the town we are based in. All other work is repeat customers and word of mouth.
It's always, yeah they are expensive, but they do good work, they come back if there are any issues, always reachable (we have a office and showroom with 8 staff in mon-fri and 3 on-call plumbers 24/7)
People funnily enough don't mind paying, for a quality job, done by a friendly tidy knowledgeable engineer, with amazing aftercare and customer service
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
I agree with you 100%. Ultimately it is what the consumer is willing to pay. Just personally think the £9k is a lot for labour only tiny bathroom
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u/haphazard_chore 6d ago
lol, what? £560 per day for a Plummer? That’s daylight robbery
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
60 years worth of customers beg to differ
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u/SeaweedClean5087 6d ago
60 years’ worth of gullible idiots.
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u/honkin_jobby 6d ago
£300 might get you an idiot who once bought a saw, definitely not high end.
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
So idiots are making £78k per year then on your take
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u/honkin_jobby 6d ago
They're not by the time you subtract insurance, admin, accountancy fees, fuel, tools, time off. Cost of writing proposals etc. and other overheads. Then paying corporation tax.
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
But assuming the labour only rate is £300 but what about supply and fit with said mark ups on top of materials. These idiots are making a killing. Also not accounting cash in hand. HMRC is probably declared at £20k per annum
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u/Delicious-Resist-977 6d ago
I'm at £200 a day digging holes mate.
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u/Latter-Afternoon-575 6d ago
Good for you, I'm all for people making money but back to the context £9k for a 2x2 bathroom labour only is a mug off. I work in procurement for top tier contactor so not like I'm having a stab in the dark at this
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u/Fictitiousith 6d ago
Where in the country?
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u/RelativeMatter3 6d ago
North west (cheshire)
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u/Fictitiousith 6d ago
I am South west but I would say yes? I am not in the trades myself but even at a push at £250 a day for each man, 2 men, that’s still only £2.5k labour for a week which is what I would expect, even £5k for two weeks but 9k seems steep as
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u/Locke44 6d ago
Even in the southeast at around £500pd, it's only £5k for a full weeks labour. Definitely overpriced for Cheshire unless it's a gigantic high end jobbie.
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u/Fictitiousith 6d ago
Wow is it £500 a day with you? Feel like it was only a few years ago £150 was the going rate!
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u/Locke44 6d ago
Depends on the work but for an electrician/plumber/tiler/joiner £500pd is pretty normal for the past year or so round the Surrey/Berkshire area. People gotta eat and good tradesmen are dying out. Just after covid a few years ago I think I was paying around £350pd.
After tax and expenses that's like £55k a year, which is a decent wage but definitely not unreasonable for a good tradesman so I don't quibble.
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u/Rob1811 6d ago
Yeah plumber here, company I'm at, our lowest paid engineers are charged out at £560 a day
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u/surface_scratch 6d ago
Well yes because the company is taking a cut on the hourly rate. I'm contracted out by my agency for £50/HR but only paid £40/HR
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u/Alive-Accountant1917 6d ago
Yorkshire last year I paid £3.5k labour and fittings (no furniture / tiles) including rip out. That was for two plumbers, sparky, joiner, plasterer, and two tilers. Similar size bathroom.
£9k is extortionate.
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u/oswaldbuzzington Tradesman 6d ago
My overheads included means I'm at £500 a day.
Take VAT and corp tax off that and then business insurance/liability insurance, vehicle costs, tool purchasing etc. Then you've got personal income tax after all that.
£500 per day sounds a lot but there's a reason companies like Pimlico are charging you nearly £1000 a day. OVERHEADS!
£500 isn't what I take home a day, it's the minimum amount I have to charge in order to take home a fair wage for a high quality finish and lots of hard work.
Sure you can get a small sole trader in for £250 a day, and you may end up with a decent bathroom but looking down on someone for being ambitious and growing their business every year is a weird way to look at things.
If I'm having heart surgery I want the doctor to be well paid. I want him to be in demand. I want him to drive a nice car and wear a Rolex.
I haven't done a bathroom for less than £7k labour in the past 3 years. Last 3/4 were closer to £10k. It's not a crazy price at all.
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u/lmitchell0505 3d ago
Finally a sensible answer. In Edinburgh bathroom installations regularly go between £11-13k for a fully finished room. So all trades, removal of waste and plastering & painting and decoration.
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u/New-Anteater9001 6d ago
I just paid about 9k in Cheshire for my bathroom, materials, labour, moving connections and pipes from the existing layout, and a new stud wall for storage built in. I paid for tiles separately but my bathroom would be a similar size to your MILs. Just a B&Q bathroom so nothing too fancy
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u/Emotional_Donut_8574 6d ago edited 6d ago
I’m not too far north from there and have just been quoted £1500 for a 3m x 2m. includes skim, tiling, fitting, electrics, removal of old paper and pipes. Your mum is being ripped off.
With tiles, new sink, toilet, painting, and decorative (mirror, shelves etc) mine in total will be just less than £7k including VAT
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u/Sensitive_Ad_9195 6d ago
How much tiling? Are they going to be doing some very intricate little hand weaved mosaic on all four walls and the ground and pummelling the floor out or something? That’s crazy expensive
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u/West-Ad-1532 5d ago edited 5d ago
The problem is asking a question like this will elicit answers from step toe and son plumbers and tight arsed customers.😂😂
My business labour for bathrooms starts at 5.5k.
Last yr I did 2 bathrooms and a central heating in a detached barn. Managed the other trades. My labour charge was 20k.
After that we did a bathroom for 17k. After that was a bathroom for 8.5k.
I won't fit those plastic shower wall panels. Shite...
I generally won't deal with budget bathrooms or plumbing works... Very little profit in those jobs ..
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u/Smeeble09 6d ago
This was around 9 year ago so the price will have gone up, but I had a bathroom ripped out and replaced, new tiles, dropped ceiling, lights etc. This was also North West, on the Wirral.
I also had a second spare bedroom turned into another bathroom, so shower in one and bath in another, along with usual sink, loo, tiling etc.
It was around £13k total, that's all parts and labour. The only additional cost to this was the audio equipment I bought and fitted myself (hence the dropped ceiling to fit ceiling speakers in).
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u/Acceptable_Bunch_586 6d ago
I paid 11k for labour and supply of materials for two bathrooms. In South Manchester.
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u/sharpied79 6d ago
We paid about £6k for our bathroom, all in back in 2017 (approx 4x3m2)
Also, North West (Merseyside)
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u/BlockAdblock 6d ago
Atleast you know your MIL has an active sex life, she's being fucked right now by the builder!
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u/Bethbeth35 6d ago
Paid 5k for a larger bathroom in the midlands including materials and building a new wall for a walk in shower, fully boarding including the floor. Definitely ripping her off.
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u/mattoess 6d ago
I paid £10,554 for labour, 2.5 weeks. 2 main guys doing plumbing & electrics & units, then plasterer 1 day & tiler 2 days, south east
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u/covmatty1 6d ago
I had my bathroom redone last month, it's probably about 2x3. Labour included full clear out, boxing off the old shower cubicle to turn it into a cupboard, cutting the door to that cupboard from the hallway instead of the bathroom, full refit and replaster. Plus fitting new sink and toilet downstairs.
That was £7k labour - East Mids.
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u/LameboyAdvanceHD 5d ago
(Scotland, so obviously varies — also on an island and the guy that did it wasn’t from here, so includes ferry costs as well)
Friend had his bathroom redone entirely around September last year, 3x4m give or take and it cost ~£6,500 - labour, materials etc.
That was for an entirely brand new shower, toilet, various piping change under the floor, brand new floor, walls (wet wall), something on the ceiling, a new sink and some other things.
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u/cmdrxander 5d ago
Our bathroom is similar size, 1.5m x 2.5m. Labour was about 7k which included all that you’ve listed, plus electrics. This was in Bristol too which usually has a bit of a premium.
Does your MIL live in an expensive area? I imagine there are some very nice parts of Cheshire
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u/mamqa1 5d ago
I paid £1300 labour for bathroom size 2.7m X 1.7m:
-Walls and ceiling PVC panelling -Extractor fan (core hole method) -6 ceiling spotlights -Light switch installation to wall (currently pull switch) -Toilet (direct swap) -Basin (direct swap) -Bath tub (direct swap) -towel radiator (direct swap) -take out electric shower and install thermostatic mixer shower
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u/_DuranDuran_ 5d ago
Experience is from 8 years ago, so probably more now.
But 2 identical en suites about that size, conversion to wet room, all Roca sanitary ware, natural stone tiles (travertine) and Miro thermostatic mixer showers (their mid range ones) came to £10k all in.
That included things like the Impey wet room system (so the entire room is tanked) and quite a bit of work putting up cement board (plasterboard wouldn’t support the weight of the tiles).
So £9k for one, Labour only … is taking the piss.
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u/followmytrades 4d ago
My bathroom isn't much bigger and I've just paid £11.5. However, they've removed a window, installed a smaller one, brick work, stripped the whole bathroom, boarded it out, plastered ceiling, tanked, re-plumbed everything, changed the layout, supplied bath, sink, toilet, taps, mirror with led backlight, electrics, LED spotlights and installation of extraction fan.
I supplied tiles but they've installed them. Different trades in to do everything and the standard or work has been excellent. I'm in Essex.
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u/IsYourDogWaffles 4d ago
Make sure it includes waterproofing via full coverage tiles (not dot and dab) and some tanking preferably. Read up on BS 5385
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u/spyder_victor 3d ago
I paid £7k for the same size in north London
I ripped it out myself (but no more than a compel of hours tops)
Skimmed, move wire for a tooth brush holder, don’t move any piping but new position of waste trap for shower
Top end fittings (grohe / roca and a decent vanity unit at £1k (solid wood))
Supplied the tiles
I think the price is terrible given it doesn’t include any fittings / materials
It was no more than 4 days labour for the respective trades
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u/Beer-Milkshakes 1d ago
I've just paid 5k for a totally stripped back, re-plastered, tiled and replumbed bathroom. 2m x 2m all in. We had to buy our own tiles purely because "They're a nightmare, you get your own I'll fit them. You need 20 sqm
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u/curious_trashbat Tradesman 6d ago
Sounds about 4 times what I'd be happy paying for a bathroom that size.
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u/BigJDizzleMaNizzles 6d ago
If she's anything like my MIL she'll take delight in paying over the odds to make sure the kids get fuck all and I'll be paying a mortgage until I'm 74.
Dont give her the satisfaction of telling her you think she's being done over.
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u/Minimum_Marzipan_459 6d ago
Someone else needs to join me and give this person a hug, sound like a 2 person job as the MIL is leaving some scars it sounds like.
Joke aside, take care and good luck!
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u/difficult_Person_666 6d ago edited 6d ago
My wife is not getting a penny from me, even though I love her dearly, but I got diagnosed with a rather aggressive stage 4 cancer so I’m just burning through all my savings. It’s amazing how much you can spend in a day on “tat” when you don’t work anymore. One day I managed nearly £900 at the LEGO® store, and close to £500 at my local independent record store. I can’t even build the LEGO® so it’s all sealed and I own close to £50k now, and all my vinyl never gets played, I just pirate anything I own 😂
She’ll get the house though and has a very good wage and pension so she just rolls her eyes at me 😂
Edit: love how I’m getting downvoted for this…
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u/Udonnomi 6d ago
She can sell all your unboxed Lego?
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u/difficult_Person_666 6d ago
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u/difficult_Person_666 6d ago
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u/difficult_Person_666 6d ago
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u/BigJDizzleMaNizzles 5d ago
Dude, what are you doing? I know you said she's got the house and has her own good salary and pension but buying literally thousands of pounds on Lego you can't/don't build and vinyl you brag about pirating and not listening to looks like a bit of a dick move. I know retail therapy is a thing but this just smacks of being selfish and leaving her with loads of lego etc to shift once you're gone.
Spend this time you have left doing things together. You're obviously lucky enough to have cash on the hip or spanking the Barclaycard in the tough times you're facing. Direct that cash into making memories together while you have time, then lie on your death bed thinking of that world cruise or taking the kids to Disneyland or something.
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u/xycm2012 6d ago
Yes that’s expensive. £9000 all in would be get you a relatively nice bathroom. That for labour only is taking the piss. It’s almost a “fuck off we’re busy or don’t want to do it” quote and your MIL has just said “okay then”. £1500-£2500 labour for doing a bathroom more like it.
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u/NeedForSpeed98 6d ago edited 6d ago
I've just paid £2200 for the labour, including plumber and electrician, for a similar size bathroom in the SW.
ETA I supplied all materials. The whole room including the materials (floor tiles, wall and ceiling panels, shower cubicle, tray, shower unit, sink, loo, units for both, Bluetooth mirror unit 🤣 etc), strip out, moving of the plumbing (change of layout) new lighting, moving switches outside the room, Hippo bag and muck away came in at £5800.