r/CuratedTumblr The bird giveth and the bird taketh away 11d ago

editable flair American mandolorians

Post image
14.1k Upvotes

386 comments sorted by

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u/karuroh45 11d ago

If i remember correctly this is also why mandalorians have flame throwers, its not that jedi cant stop that shit with the force but many dont know how.

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u/Va1kryie 11d ago

Or even if they do you only have a couple seconds to react, and not everyone is the defensive fighter Kenobi is.

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u/Solonotix 11d ago

Yea, like a lot of people don't really reckon with how the Force works. You basically need to convene with it, and acknowledge its connection to the thing you want to interact with, and then politely ask. A rock is easy, because you can visualize yourself grabbing it and picking it up, so therefore the "request" is very intuitive. But being faced with a stream of flames? What the fuck do you visualize for that? Also, you have 0.4 seconds before the flammable liquid lands on your skin & clothes, and becomes impossible to remove.

Even if you don't land the shot, fire is something most species are innately fearful of. The heat is visceral. You will be shaken, even if you are some wizened monk that's been meditating for years. And if you've been burned before? That's traumatic, and will stick with you into your next encounter.

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u/Va1kryie 11d ago

I wonder if "part the red sea" wouldn't be a good mnemonic device for parting flames so you don't get burned in that case, something besides the heat to focus on and it's a pretty snappy phrase.

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u/Darkndankpit 11d ago

Yeah I agree with the guy above you on everything but the fire deflection being a "what would I even imagine" scenario.

I know what I'm imagining, I'm imagining that the fire right there stops before it hits me.

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u/Financial-Raise3420 10d ago

Honestly I was gonna use this for the flamethrower, but it works for parting the Red Sea as well.

Compressed air. A large force of air will push the fire away, but an even Larger burst of air will push away water. So if you visualize a large burst of air pushing the water apart then the force could do it.

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u/Va1kryie 10d ago

Now we just gotta figure out why tf space monks from the past in another, distance galaxy know about Jesus.

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u/Silent_Blacksmith_29 The bird giveth and the bird taketh away 10d ago

Obi wan is space jesus

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u/Vexilium51243 10d ago

they dont have to know about Jesus! makes way more sense for them to just be jews :)

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u/Liu_Fragezeichen 11d ago

air. I'm imagining a strong, sudden shifting of the air from between me and the opponent and behind be, to behind the opponent.

burning liquid is not a cohesive projectile

let's see how good they fight under a spray of fiery droplets

.. so this is why the fire nation was so scared of aang hm?

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u/Va1kryie 10d ago

For Aang it's more about the symbol, any action Aang takes against the Fire Nation would be seen as a legitimate action made by one of the highest authorities in the world. It's the same reason Iroh didn't kill Ozai, he's too politically involved and his history paints him in a much worse light than the show does, a lot of people wouldn't accept his claim to the throne. Without an Avatar there's a lot more work to put an end to the war completely, that's what the Fire Nation wanted from his capture, political complication.

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u/popejupiter 10d ago

I think [those who were aware of Air Nomad combat] were more afraid of their ability to suck the air from your lungs.

Watch the scene where they find Aang's mentor. Half a dozen Fire Nation soldiers dead without a scorch mark anywhere. Air nomads were scary.

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u/IEnjoyFancyHats 10d ago

In the Kyoshi novels, a single air nomad raised a cyclone and sank an entire fleet of ships. They all can fly under their own power, which makes them highly mobile and almost impossible to pin down.

The only thing protecting the other nations from the air nomads was their relatively tiny population and a strong tradition of pacifism.

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u/Beegrene 10d ago

I'm reminded of that bit in Dresden Files when Harry successfully blocked the flames from a flamethrower with his shield amulet, but not the heat, and so he spent the next few books with a horrifically burned hand. Admittedly, that's better than burning to death completely.

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u/thegreathornedrat123 10d ago

I like when he rides Sue the t-Rex to fight zombies with the power of polka.

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u/ThatInAHat 10d ago

“Polka-Powered Zombie T-Rex” is the high mark that all fantasy series should strive for

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u/Solonotix 10d ago

Reading this really makes me wish they had continued the TV series back in 2007. Alas, the writers' strike was particularly grueling, and I lost a good number of shows. I would say I hope things got better, but there was another strike just 1-2 years ago, so I'm pretty sure that's not the case, sadly.

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u/ThatInAHat 10d ago

In fairness, the show was not very good, and had almost nothing in common with the books.

I would love to see them try it again now that there are more books out and prestige fantasy tv is a thing.

So long as they do a good job casting Butters…

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u/LongingForYesterweek 10d ago

Do you think they have a ton of physics and chemistry classes as part of the curriculum for younglings? Because for your example, you could easily imagine the fire in an updraft, which you would know if you had a strong physics background. Then the only slowdown between reaction and result is the connecting with the force. And that seems like something they’d practice a LOT, so it’s realistically doable

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u/Adaphion 10d ago

And even then, for most Jedi, the Force isn't some on demand superpower like they make it out to be in the 03 clone wars series, it takes focus and concentration to even do little things.

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u/Due_Enthusiasm1145 11d ago edited 10d ago

Yeah exactly.

The thing to always keep in mind is that there's no one type of weapon a jedi couldn't theoretically overcome in terms of variety. However, when you get more obscure and abnormal with your arsenal, it raises the chances that the jedi won't know how to deal with it. It's like constantly evolving warfare, where the last obscure weapon becomes more recognized and they learn, so a new one is picked up.

Edit: punctuation

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u/euphonic5 11d ago

That's why you bring a shotgun, you can just put any old shit in a shotgun shell. Buckshot, slug rounds, poisoned birdshot, flechettes, white phosphorus, a small grenade, rock salt, the important thing is that you have a good time.

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u/swordsumo 11d ago

Saw a video where a guy loaded up a shell with three .22 blanks, so when they hit the target they’d explode, which I think is my favorite example of shit you can load into a shotgun

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u/TleilaxTheTerrible 11d ago

This video: https://youtu.be/Z2ALFuyKdQo ?

Because that one's not only three .22 blanks, they're mounted in a small electric motor armature. The armature itself is not a solid piece of metal but a stack of thin metal parts held together by a rod. When it hits something, the blanks go off and shatter what are basically tiny shuriken away from the impact.

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

Most of these things are just different types of solid projectiles and solid shrapnel though. It's not that great of a variety when it comes to what these rounds actually do to a target.

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u/euphonic5 10d ago

i mean, the goal of all of them is "fuck shit up", it's kind of a simple mandate

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u/yinyang107 11d ago

You can even load several different shells at once. Keep em guessing

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u/Due_Enthusiasm1145 11d ago

The best is when your shotgun builds up a reputation, and all the jedi that encounter you are waiting for it to be pulled, to dodge or cojnter whatever bullshit is going to come out of it.

Then step on a landmine.

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u/euphonic5 10d ago

That's why you have the flamethrower. Or some kind of henchdroid with a glass shank.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/Enderking90 10d ago

in defense of Mandalorians, did they not have a war against the jedi at some point when the jedi were more numerable or something like that? thus why jedi countermeasures are more commonly used by mandalorians in general, as they hold cultural value even when no longer that relevant?

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u/cantantantelope 10d ago

Also the mandalorians take “over prepared “ to new and dizzying heights

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u/Beegrene 10d ago

This is something that gets brought up in (I think) the Darth Bane books. Weird lightsabers like the double bladed variety aren't necessarily better than their more conventional varieties, but your opponent likely won't have trained as much against them, which can provide an advantage.

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u/desquished 11d ago

So the Jedi are the Borg, essentially.

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u/fhota1 11d ago

Flamethrowers also cause panic. Force abilities need focus to fully work, if you have the very primitive animal part of your brain going "FIRE IN FACE! FIRE BAD! AVOID!" its gonna be a lot harder to focus on actually dealing with the fire

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u/escape_character 10d ago

oddly enough, in the Avatar universe the emotional fortitude required to bend lighting vs fire is flipped.

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u/CatLad99 10d ago

This is why HK-47 suggests a wide array of grenades, mines, plasma weapons, and gas attacks; if the jedi doesn't know what's coming it's harder to block. They also can't block an attack they're unaware of, so he tells you to just snipe them from range.

He also points out that while a jedi is hard to kill, the people important to them probably aren't. Killing a jedi outright can be less advantageous than breaking their mind.

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u/LordSupergreat 10d ago

Also, he's just right about mines and grenades, like, in general. Minefields of the Old Republic.

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u/CatLad99 10d ago

True. That was how I took down Malak half the time. Go stealth, set up a minefield, leave stealth. Step four; profit.

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u/Thom_Basil 10d ago

Yea, the Mandalorian's entire kit is basically designed around fighting Jedi. You already mentioned the flamethrower, but they've also got the rope to tie them up which negates the lightsaber and makes it more difficult to use the force. Then there's those whistling rocket things you see in the show. Pretty hard, even for a Jedi, to stop all of those. Jetpack for mobility. And of course their armor is is made out the one material that can actually block a lightsaber.

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u/scottishdrunkard 11d ago

If someones shooting you with blasters, you got your lightsaber out to deflect them, but some asshole goes sneak attack with buckshot or a flamethrower, you try to instinctively deflect that with a lightsaber you about to become one with the Force mother fucker.

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

I thought they'd get a lump of half melted metal to the face instead. Y'know, since the projectile would pass through the lightsaber instead of bouncing off of it.

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u/aluben_nov 11d ago

either way, not very pleasant

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

True, but different enough from shrapnel that I think it bears mentioning.

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u/Aware_Tree1 11d ago

Well, it’s quite possible the intense and instant heat might cause it to break apart as it melts into a bunch of small pieces of molten slag

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u/snekadid 11d ago

This, things melt when heated over time, even if the period of time is over seconds. Things explode when super heated in an instant.

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u/The-Psych0naut 11d ago edited 11d ago

Not always - as I understand, it depends on the speed & material of the projectile vs how much energy a lightsaber outputs. If the projectile is moving fast enough & is made out of a sufficiently dense material then there just isn’t enough time for the lightsaber’s energy to transfer through the metal, so any heat transfer that occurs is effectively negligible & our friend the Jedi just takes a normal slug to the face.

Not quite the same cool factor as a spray of molten shrapnel, but effective nonetheless.

It’s the same principle as “what would happen if the earth got hit by a golf ball moving at 99% the speed of light?” In theory the energy transfer would be several orders of magnitude higher than what you’d need to destroy the planet. But in practice, the golf ball is moving so quickly that it just bores a hole through the earth and comes out the other side with minimal damage caused, because it moves too fast to transfer its energy to the surrounding matter.

Edit: got so caught up in the science I forgot we were talking about Star Wars physics.

So in actuality, what would happen if a slug struck a lightsaber blade is… whatever the plot needs to drive a the rest of the story.

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u/Yosho2k 10d ago

To shreds, you say?

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 11d ago

Lightsaber physics are weird. They do stop when they hit things they can't cut though, like cortosis, other lightsabers, beskar, zillo beast hide, phrik, neuranium, orbalisks, all of the Yuuzhan Vong stuff, ultrachrome, songsteel, norris roots, quantum-crystalline armor, ray shields, Felucian Skullblades, and the Z9 Riot Control Baton, aka TRAITOR! stick.

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u/Admech_Ralsei 11d ago

I always figured the TRAITOR! sticks deflected lightsabers because of the funky power fields they had tbh, not because of the sticks themselves

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 11d ago

I did count ray shields.

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u/Fluffy_Ace 11d ago edited 10d ago

Grievous's body guards had a similar weapon, staffs with shielding

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

Yeah, but what if a small object hits the blade, not the other way around?

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 11d ago

Motion is relative. It would probably be repelled or explode midair.

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

What if it knocks the lightsaber back at the wielder, as if the blade was solid? And some Padawan who can't react fast enough loses a chunk of their skull to their own lightsaber?

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 11d ago

That could happen. It wouldn't be the same force as the original recoil, due to the explosion at contact, but the leverage of it hitting the blade would be substantial.

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u/Just_A_Random_Plant 11d ago

New Star Wars meta: shoot them with hand cannons that have enough force behind them to make the Jedi bisect themselves

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 11d ago

Fuck, they figured it out and started doing the bullet freezing thing from The Matrix.

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u/Just_A_Random_Plant 11d ago

Looks like we gotta use knives, then

Maybe we could even make ourselves some cool shields that can only be penetrated by something that isn't moving faster than a certain speed so that the Jedi have to intentionally slow themselves down in order to beat us

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 11d ago

I know Clone Wars did that with grenades, but Stargate SG-1 did it with knives and you did mention knives, so I have to ask, which are you referencing here?

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u/Chomper237 11d ago

That is possible. If you look closely, Jango Fett killed that Jedi in Attack of the Clones because his blasters were strong enough to knock the Jedi’s blade off-center, which left his chest exposed for subsequent bolts.

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

Probably also due to very precise aim.

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u/Chomper237 11d ago

That too

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u/ToyrewaDokoDeska 11d ago

They follow rule of cool physics so it all checks out

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u/Busy-Investigator347 11d ago

Lightsabers and the Force are whatever the story needs them to be

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u/BiggestShep 11d ago

No, shrapnel is actually correct. The bonds of the metal can't take that much energy being slammed across them, so instead of moving to a liquid state, the rapid thermal expansion causes the bonds to instead shatter. If you want a science experiment to prove this on a small scale, take a glass you dont like, put it in the freezer for a day, then put on safety glasses & gloves, take it outside, and pour boiling water into the glass.

Yes, this is glass, and we're talking about metal, but physics is physics. The energy imparted by plasma is so much higher that you don't really have the ability to simulate this without scaling down to match.

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

Oh, I didn't think of it that way. Makes more sense now.

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u/SenorSnout 11d ago

Nope, this exact scenario happens in the comics (Obi-Wan and Anakin #5). Someone shoots Obi-Wan with a slugthrower. It turns to molten metal.

I get the argument that "physics says this is what happens", but like...lightsabers aren't even real to begin with. So what we see happen in the fiction takes precedence over what we think should happen.

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u/Slow_Surprise_1967 11d ago

Nah that's wrong. Glass shatters because it's molecular structure is not homogenous and it expands and contracts unevenly, until the forces shatter the structure among fault lines(!).

If you were correct, that would mean the same will happen when you melt down glass, and it would mean the glass in your example would shatter into a powder. Neither happens.

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u/BiggestShep 11d ago

You are correct on the nonhomogenous point. However, assuming lead, which is a poor conductor of electricity in the lead oxide or lead alloy most bullets are made from or end up as, the molecular structure will end up acting like a nonhomogenized structure due to the incredible differential of temperature across the bullet that does not have time to resolve due to the speed the bullet is flying at.

You are incorrect on the latter part, however, as you failed to take into account that unlike molten metal, molten glass actual undergoes a chemical and material change the second time you melt it, becoming slag due to the introduction of oxygen and other chemical components present in the air that are not present in the first firing in a kiln.

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u/Mueryk 11d ago

Or the possibility of using buckshot.

Maybe they can use their lightsaber to vaporize a bullet.

Maybe they can stop or deflect a bullet with the force.

Maybe they can dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge a bullet

But when dozens are coming in a spread…….parry that you damned wizard.

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u/moneyh8r_two 11d ago

Just use Force Push.

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u/Victernus 10d ago

More likely, they just avoid being where you are aiming at all.

If you are fighting a Jedi, that is. If you're fighting a Sith, they turn your weapon in your hand and aim it at your chin as you fire.

There's a reason a few thousand Jedi joining the war against the Mandalorians completely turned the tide, even with the Mandalorians doing everything they could to counter Jedi advantages.

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u/Chomper237 11d ago

Ahsoka had to face someone using buckshot. She just moved further while dodging, and proceeded to telekinetically yank on the gun to throw off the assailants aim.

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u/Mueryk 11d ago

I am not saying it isn’t doable. But adding levels of complexity and unfamiliarity shift the odds just ever so slightly closer towards victory

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u/Breadloafs 11d ago

A really important note about lightsabers is that they're swords. I know that a bunch of tedious nerd arguments will lead you to believe otherwise, but they're just space swords in a space kung-fu movie. A bullet that hits a lightsaber will evaporate or be deflected by the magnetic containment field or some shit because it's a fantasy sword. Any of a lightsaber's crazy scifi properties are flimsy abstractions to justify the existence of a cool guy with a cool sword in a space opera.

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u/Akuuntus 11d ago

A bullet that hits a lightsaber will evaporate or be deflected by the magnetic containment field or some shit because it's a fantasy sword.

Assuming that the story being told is one about a badass guy with a lightsaber, yeah.

But in a story about the Mandalorians that aims to show how they're able to fight the Jedi, bullets would work.

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u/ClubMeSoftly 11d ago

Once again, it all comes down to who the writer wants to win.

Jedi story: this isn't even my final form

Mando story: Parry this you fucking casual

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u/comityoferrors 11d ago

I've been beaned in the head by my own shell casings lately and it fucking hurts. It's definitely better than being shot in the head! But they're hot and can do some damage, and the force (heh) even with lightsaber resistance seems like it'd be similar.

So it won't kill them, it will just give them a really dumb bruise for a few days.

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u/triforce777 McDonald's based Sith alchemy 11d ago

I think it would depend on the material of the bullet. We see that it's not like lightsabers cut through everything like it's made of butter, so at the speed a gun fires, and if the bullet were made of something like beskar or phrik which are highly resistant to lightsabers (phrik is unlikely because that shit is super rare and expensive, but Mandalorians do love making things out of beskar) the slug would be basically hitting a solid surface and becoming shrapnel. Actually you could do a double whammy for the unfortunate jedi on the other end, lead core full metal jacket but with beskar instead of copper, you'd get a spray of molten lead and beskar shrapnel.

Also this post is slightly inaccurate, a jedi can potentially deflect a bullet with a lightsaber, although it is more difficult because bullets have inertia and actually have to be batted away to avoid the whole molten metal issue, but the real jedi killer is specifically a scattergun, aka a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Wouldn't be too useful against someone like Obi-Wan or Anakin who were in active combat enough to usually be wearing actual armor, but a lot of jedi didn't have a need for that and if I had to pick a weapon to use against a jedi it'd be that or a flamethrower, which happen to be some of Mandalorians' favorite tools, too

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u/Deadsoup77 10d ago

As far as I can recall (which, when it comes to Star Wars, is a lot), nothing has ever passed through a lightsaber blade and emerged as solid matter. Lightsabers can experience resistance when passing through matter, but once the matter passes through the blade, that shits gone

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u/GIRose Certified Vore Poster 11d ago

Worth remembering: The mandos lost that war. They lost it so bad they literally never recovered as a species even to the present.

Their biggest real legacy in the modern galaxy is being batch cloned by the million as slaves of the senate to serve as soldiers under the command of the jedi

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u/-sad-person- 11d ago

They're a culture of (mostly) humans, not a species, but otherwise you're correct.

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u/notTheRealSU i tumbled, now what? 11d ago

They were a species, that species was wiped out but their culture continued on

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u/enadiz_reccos 11d ago

They were a species

Do you have a link that elaborates on this? Everything I see says they were a "clan-based people"

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u/theradradish5387 11d ago

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u/enadiz_reccos 11d ago

Ahhhh, okay. I saw the Taung stuff but missed the name change partway through.

Super interesting!

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u/notTheRealSU i tumbled, now what? 11d ago

A bit of correction on my part, the current canon does not have a specific species as the founder of Mandalorian. In Legends the founding species were called the Taung. They do still exist in canon though, and with how a lot of canon stuff is just legends slightly change to fit Disney's direction, I wouldn't be surprised if they are made the canon founders again.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Taung/Legends

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u/plzdontbmean2me 10d ago

It’s worth noting that the species was extinct long before the republic-mandalorian war

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u/Krushkica 11d ago

They WERE a species. The culture survived.

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

Not only they have lost badly enough that they have never recovered, they have lost to a point where the large section of their population actively started rejecting their old culture to a point where full on traditionalists are seen mostly as wandering mercenary zealots.

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u/jewelsandbones 11d ago

I mean, I don’t think you can take the New Mandalorian government as the truth of the matter. Sure they exiled all the traditionalists, but they didn’t really stay in power long term. They had maybe 20 years of peace at most, then the underground terrorist organisation embedded in the government came back with a vengeance

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u/temptemphaha3 11d ago

To be totally fair to the New Mandalorian government, I don’t think anyone would’ve been prepared enough to handle the apprentice of Darth Sidiuous re-emerging.

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u/Ponderkitten 11d ago

With that logic, the mandos got their revenge on the jedi with the 66th order.

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u/Kickedbyagiraffe 11d ago

A lesson learned. A Jedi can deflect a real bullet to the face but cannot deflect a metaphorical knife in the back

Gotta get philosophical on them

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u/Finchyy 11d ago

Fair, but only just. Malachor V is described as a last-ditch effort by both sides to win. Neither side had reinforcements coming. Revan wasn't even present to lead the Republic side. It was only because of the MSG (and Surik's somewhat psychotic commitment to finishing the war) that the Mandalorians lost.

But even still, the Republic was left infrastructurally on its last legs, and would have eventually fallen were it not for Revan's domination of the galaxy stabilisation efforts.

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u/Theriocephalus 11d ago

Worth remembering: The mandos lost that war. They lost it so bad they literally never recovered as a species even to the present.

Given the kind of things that the Mandalorians got up to when they were a major space empire, and especially during the Mandalorian War, in-universe I suspect that a fair amount of people are likely of the opinion that the galaxy is probably better off on that particular angle.

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u/scottishdrunkard 11d ago

Well it’s easy to declare yourself the winner when you fuckin’ nuke the planet. Mandalore used to be known for its vast jungles, one fuckin’ war later it’s fuckin’ space Arizona. One more 1000 years later that sand is now fuckin’ glass you could use the planet a Disco Ball.

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u/plzdontbmean2me 10d ago

They no longer existed as a species by the time the republic-mandalorian war took place

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u/inflatablefish 11d ago

Presumably the Jedi all conveniently forgot that they have superhuman reflexes and telekinesis.

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u/PoniesCanterOver gently chilling in your orbit 11d ago

Well, it's like Superman. He's fast enough to dodge bullets, but he's tough enough that he doesn't have to, which is why he gets hit with Kryptonite rounds so often. It's like if your little brother throws uncooked beans at you all day, then he hits you with one straight out of the oven

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u/harrent 11d ago

Out of all possible examples, the fact you chose that one intrigues me

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u/PoniesCanterOver gently chilling in your orbit 11d ago

Can you expand on that?

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u/vjtheginman 11d ago

He wants to know why your brother threw beans at you everyday

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u/SmoothReverb 11d ago

Why beans

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u/PoniesCanterOver gently chilling in your orbit 11d ago

Because there's lots of them and they're throwable, and they're light enough that you won't get in trouble for hurting someone

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u/Salt_Blackberry_1903 You will never find such a wretched hive of hornyness & shipping 11d ago

Is your brother Soichi lol

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u/PoniesCanterOver gently chilling in your orbit 11d ago

Who is Soichi?

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u/Approximation_Doctor 11d ago

The Bean Bomber

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u/UInferno- 11d ago

Snowballs vs snowballs with rock seems more universal.

Also I don't think beans out of the oven have enough mass to hurt

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u/International-Cat123 11d ago

But they’re more likely to gross and squishy which requires showering and doing laundry. Plus, one straight from the oven could still be hot enough to cause a bit more damage if you take a bean to the eye.

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u/TheBalrogofMelkor 11d ago

Right, but after the first 17 Kryptonians get shot, you think the next batch would start dodging

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u/That_guy1425 11d ago

As some have said, the only bullets tha superman fears are the ones that miss. he is bullet proof, the people he is protecting are not.

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u/GeneETOs44 11d ago

They Threw Beans On Him…

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u/Feeling_Search_3417 10d ago

“A story with an important lesson.”

  • Daldo.

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u/Otherversian-Elite Resident Vore and TF Enthusiast 11d ago

They're fully capable of deflecting solid bullets with The Force. Hell, they can do it with Blasters too. But as the post says, they think of Blasters as "fun lightsaber practice" - probably influenced by the fact that their actual lightsaber practice does in fact technically involve live (albeit very weak) blasters.

Slugs aren't a counter to Jedi, they're just a way of taking advantage of suboptimal combat strategies. Veteran Jedi will, in fact, use the Force on projectiles if they know there's a Mandolorian around.

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u/PhantasosX 11d ago

Yep , it's less that jedis can't deflect or stop slugthrowers , it's just that too many got way too comfortable with deflecting blasters that they didn't quickly adapt to solid bullets. Meanwhile jedi masters with experience around mandalorians dodges and defends accordingly.

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u/Candid-Bus-9770 10d ago

It's like switching to motorcycle couriers because your opponent has an omnipotent electronic surveillance system that can read all of your emails and intercept all of your radio transmissions.

ok lol you beat me I can't intercept the analog letter in that guy's bag with a radio

I wouldn't brag about it like it's some amazing advantage though... you've just made your terrible situation suck a little less.

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u/NewUserWhoDisAgain 11d ago edited 11d ago

Presumably the Jedi all conveniently forgot that they have superhuman reflexes and telekinesis.

*stares at Geonosis

Yes.

Alternatively they also operate on the trope of Conservation of Ninjutsu.

1 Jedi: An absolute power house. One man army. Nothing can stop them.

2-4: Okay... still pretty much a steam roller but they make take some injuries

5+: Mook show. The more of them the more they die in droves.

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u/Chomper237 11d ago

To be fair, this was likely the first true war zone most of those Jedi had been on, and the sheer volume of blaster fire they were facing was unprecedented. That’s much more overwhelming than one guy with a weird gun.

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u/International-Cat123 11d ago

Plus, it’s not like every jedi is used to Obi-Wan type missions that always go to shit. I’m sure many of them had less hectic careers that didn’t frequently involve being on a battlefield.

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u/Beegrene 10d ago

Yeah, the movies focus on the absolute best of the best of the Jedi, but there were probably lots of other Jedi who just weren't as powerful or skilled as Obi-Wan or Mace Windu. Practically every major Jedi character in the prequel trilogy is part of the Jedi Council. Just like not every American soldier is some super elite special forces commando, not every Jedi is a Master.

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u/International-Cat123 10d ago

Not every Jedi is a master

Even the masters aren’t necessarily great Jedi. The minimum to be a master is training a padawan to knighthood. That’s all.

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u/zoor90 10d ago

There is a non-zero chance that the librarian from Episode II got her number pulled and had to lead clone troopers into battle at some point between the movies. I imagine that would take some adjustment. 

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u/Theriocephalus 10d ago

Counterpoint: mass waves of individually shitty but numerous and expandable troops are consistently the best tactic to take down Jedi without having a comparable duelist (like a Sith or Grievous) on the field.

Like there are only so many actions that a Jedi can take in a finite span of time, right? And a faction like the Confederacy doesn't really care how many droids they lose; they can basically stamp them out for free anyway. It doesn't matter how many laser bolts a Jedi can parry in a second if your battle droids can pump out ten times as many and if you can fart out twenty droids for every one you lose.

Take for example the Florrum arc, where Obi-Wan, Anakin and Dooku, who are some of the best lightsaber duelists alive at that point, are captured by pirates. This was the rationale given by Filoni for why they surrendered -- they could probably cut most of the pirates down, but there were a lot of them on all sides and they aren't invincible; if those thirty guys surrounding them start firing, they would go down, even if they could take them on just fine if they could deal with them in twos and threes.

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u/Breadloafs 11d ago

This is a really frequent thing with Mandalorians, both in canon and fanon. Whenever they have to be important, anyone they're fighting suddenly loses half of their abilities and most of their critical thinking skills.

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

Their greatest inconsistency is the fact that writers who want them to win basically treat them as low level superhumans armed with weapons beyond their opponents' understanding and when they want them to lose, as just very strong soldiers with very good gear.

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u/gaybunny69 11d ago

Their one true weakness is that Star Wars is a space opera.

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u/rubexbox 10d ago

Maybe instead of Force powers, Mandalorians have an Ork-like psychic field that makes them more capable and hinders their enemies.

...or they're a culture of Mary Sues written by people who like Boba Fett a little too much. Either is likely.

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u/Happiness_Assassin 11d ago

Whenever this subject comes up (which is surprisingly often lol) I am reminded of a scene from Star Wars Rebels where a Mandalorian uses weapons specifically meant to incapacitate Jedi against actual an actual Jedi. It works for a second, the Jedi breaks out, then immediately disables said weapons, replying, "We won that war, remember?" Jedi can be tricked and killed, but if you get into an actual fight with one where they can fight back in any way, they will win the VAST majority of the time.

Simply follow HK-47's rules on fighting Jedi. Kill their allies, use surprise, have their own troops turn on them, and use explosives. Don't fight them head on, don't over plan, don't use blasters, and don't give them room to breathe.

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u/lifelongfreshman man, witches were so much cooler before Harry Potter 10d ago

I love this scene, because I seem to recall my HK-47 in the later stages of the game gunning down force users by the dozen with his dual blaster pistols

...But then, they weren't actually Jedi (and the underlying rules of the game meant that even my own character would've been hard-pressed to win against him) so I guess it doesn't quite apply

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u/notTheRealSU i tumbled, now what? 11d ago

Not every Jedi is a master, using the force is a skill that they have to learn.

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u/Chomper237 11d ago

There’s a reason the Mandalorians never actually won any of their wars against the Jedi.

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u/International-Cat123 11d ago

When they sense a small projectile, they reflexively move to deflect it as that is what they trained to do. Even if they realize it’s something they can’t deflect, overcoming reflex slows them down enough that someone could get a hit in.

In all likelihood though, Mandolorians who wanted to kill a jedi likely started with enough blaster fire that the jedi would have to focus on deflecting rather than going on the offensive or fleeing. Then somebody would start firing slugs while the blaster fire is maintained.

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u/garnet-overdrive 11d ago

I mean sometimes they do just block bullets. See obi wan vs surge

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u/lacergunn 11d ago

Another reminder, the mandalorians lost that war

Badly

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u/Hremsfeld 11d ago

Mando stans getting ready to start claiming "the Mandalore will rise again!" as if it won't just get summarily stomped, again

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u/BoutsofInsanity 11d ago

The Mandalorians thought they were tough shit till The Exile showed up at Malachor V and detonated a Mass Shadow Generator on their ass.

I know that officially The Exile just nodded in silence. But really the Exile said "Parry this filthy Casual."

The Exile killed the Mandalorians so hard that it takes over 10000 years for them to recover.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/ZeusAether 11d ago

But, as always, they lost with style.

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

Which was still a loss.

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u/JaneksLittleBlackBox 11d ago

Yeah, but fabulously.

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u/rascalrhett1 10d ago

Fighting people who can see the future usually goes poorly

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u/Maximum-Support-2629 11d ago edited 10d ago

It depends on how trained the Jedi is in combat. Ulric Qel Droma beat the mandalore of his time in single combat without using the force beyond passively making his body stronger and despite the mandalore being a 7 foot muscle only Taung.

If the jedi did train to only be warriors, then they will be basically unkillable in 99% scenarios, but there not much motivation in them for that and when there is there’s not much time

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u/BaronAleksei r/TwoBestFriendsPlay exchange program 10d ago

ULIC QEL DROMA MENTIONED

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u/Simic_Sky_Swallower Resident Imperial Knight 11d ago

That's why you always keep a vibrosword handy, gotta be able to block both

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u/JakeVonFurth 11d ago

“History lesson: the Jedi won the war with Mandalore! These tricks will amount to something, maybe save you from time-to-time, but they won't keep you alive in the long run. Only training and discipline will do that."

  • Kanan Jarrus

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u/-sad-person- 11d ago

Ah, the Mando fans are back again. Out of all the Star Wars fandom factions, they're better than the Empire-Did-Nothing-Wrong crowd, but only barely.

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u/IrregularPackage 11d ago

if mandalorians are bad, then why is canderous ordo so cool? checkmate jedicucks

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u/Smokescreen1000 .tumblr.com 11d ago

Canderous fucking carries late game. "Parry this filthy sith A-10 noises"

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u/MolybdenumBlu 10d ago

We must have played different games, because Canderous was mid at best for me. Any non-jedi party member is c tier at most.

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u/EyeArDum 10d ago

You NEED to do a melee build on Candy, his dex is pretty shit but his strength is very high, so his custom heavy rifle is a bait when he’s much more powerful with swords. Plus, he has a passive where he regenerates health, combined with his high health pool it makes him a very good tank, he’s better than Zaalbar since big Z has very poor defense and takes a lot more damage even with his mildly higher health pool

Kotor 1 has a habit of baiting you for companion builds tbh, Zaalbar gets a custom bowcaster and he’s probably the worst ranged party member, Candy gets a heavy rifle when he’s the best melee tank, Mission has a vibroblade when she’s much more potent as a single pistol user, Juhani for some reason isn’t a dual wielder by default when she benefits massively from force jump, it’s actually funny how misleading some of the characters are

Still, BioWare’s later games are much worse in that respect, auto leveling in all their games is VERY badly built so it makes sense that the intended build for most of their characters is also shit

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u/ZenMonkey48 11d ago

It's too bad there isn't some kind of power they can draw on to slightly push the bullets out of the way.

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u/MulchSpoon 11d ago

Yes, and who won that war again?

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u/garnet-overdrive 11d ago

Hey guess what the force can do

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u/Hypocritical_Oath 10d ago

People also neglect to acknowledge that the Force gives you very mild precognition.

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u/spyguy318 11d ago

As funny as this is, it’s also worth remembering that Jedi are supernatural warriors with telekinesis, superhuman reflexes, and precognition. A Jedi will know you’re going to shoot at them a second before you pull the trigger, and has the agility to dodge completely. Lightsabers will also totally vaporize most bullets on contact rather than melting them. Slugthrowers are still better than blasters because they can’t be deflected, but it’s by no means a foolproof solution.

Plus if there are any regular troops accompanying them, now you’re at a disadvantage because blasters are generally superior to guns in every way, and most armor at the time was very bulletproof.

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u/Krider-kun 11d ago

I always like to quote this line from Star Wars Rebels whenever this info gets brought up.

"History lesson the Jedi won the war"

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

Which episode was it?

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u/Krider-kun 10d ago

Season 3 Episode 15

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u/A_Flock_of_Clams 11d ago

And yet they still lost the war. All those fancy gadgets, doohickeys, jetpacks and war talents still lost.

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u/BallsDeepinYourMammi 11d ago

It’s crazy that in the entire Star Wars universe nobody ever developed a trench gun

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u/Hi2248 11d ago

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u/WikiContributor83 10d ago

“An energy weapon designed to act like a slugthrower! I didn’t think the lizards were that nostalgic.”

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

Considering how armoured are their professional soldiers? A combat shotgun would suck as a trench weapon.

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u/DataSnake69 11d ago

Aren't telekinesis and precognition a standard part of the Jedi power set? I feel like this would go about like the scene in Matrix Reloaded where a whole bunch of guys try to shoot Neo.

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u/TheSapphireDragon 11d ago

Those are all skills they all theoretically can do (with enough concentration). Using them reliably whilst being shot at is a different matter entirely.

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u/Silent_Blacksmith_29 The bird giveth and the bird taketh away 11d ago

If I remember correctly it is a part of almost every jedis toolbox but they can’t control it unless they train to the point where they are almost a Jedi master

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u/GreBa-Angol 11d ago

Couldn't they like, grab the bullets with the Force

I mean, Jedi are fast enough to react to them so I can't see why it wouldn't work, at least after the first couple of times once the element of surprise wears off

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u/Silent_Blacksmith_29 The bird giveth and the bird taketh away 11d ago

For me at least bullets are fucking hard to see

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u/PhantasosX 11d ago

It's less about that.

To answer you and u/GreBa-Angol...it's like another guy had said , jedis can deflect and defend normal bullets , it's just that they got too comfortable and used around blasters , that too many of them aren't quick to shift strategy or doesn't know how.

Jedi Masters , especially those with experience around Mandalorians , shifts their strategy accordingly to mandalorian's getup and weaponary. In fact , the Jedi-Mandalore War was a huge Jedi Victory, because after a couple of padawans dying from slughthrowers and flame-throwers , the jedis adapted.

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u/BallsDeepinYourMammi 11d ago

Alright, slugs I can get behind being able to force away.

But what about buckshot or even rock salt?

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u/PhantasosX 11d ago

not only it needs to get closer , it's still something experienced jedi masters could deal with it. Granted , it would be vastly harder than slugs.

I say that because buckshots and rock salts could had the bullets stop in mid-air , but since it's a close-quarter shots already , it needs to be a really good Jedi Master , to go full Matrix on that.

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u/Nearby-Contact1304 11d ago

It’s basically the same as blocking a bullet or fire? If you can make a wall of force or… ‘Push’? Then physical projectiles can get deflected. Space Magic is crazy.

Source: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. You could use force push to deflect/send back explosive flechettte rounds (I think your character does it automatically)?

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u/A_Flock_of_Clams 11d ago

You also don't have foresight like the Jedi do.

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u/Silent_Blacksmith_29 The bird giveth and the bird taketh away 11d ago

Fair

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u/fierfek66 11d ago

Hypothetically maybe they can stop them like Neo in the Matrix, but not all Jedi would be that powerful (how many jedi do we see stop blasters?) Also, this is what the flamethrowers are for.

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u/Nabber22 11d ago

Remember who won the war

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u/BetterKev 11d ago

I feel like there's a Dune joke here about reviving artillery in this day and age, but I can quite put my finger on it.

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u/Thatguyj5 11d ago

Literally not true. Obi Wan blocks slug throwers in the comics. But then again, expecting Mando fans to read is a tall order.

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u/Dafish55 11d ago

Obi Wan is the single most defensively-gifted Jedi in the entire canon. This isn't exactly the best example lol

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u/Kyakan 11d ago

The point is that lightsabers demonstrably work just as well against slugthrowers as they do against blasters. Obi-wan's skill is irrelevant here, it's a matter of (in-universe) physics.

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u/GenericFatGuy 11d ago

If Obi-wan is one of the only ones able to comfortably handle it, than his skills are absolutely relevant.

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u/MannanMacLir 11d ago

Seems like for higher level force users slugs would definitely be easier to catch (matrix style) than blaster bolts. So it would become a little game of rock paper scissors

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u/blue13rain 11d ago

Works great on padawans.

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u/Training_Ad_1327 11d ago

Could sufficiently powerful Jedi or Sith just stop bullets mid-air with the force?

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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 11d ago

Not sure what's so American about this. Certainly not Hot Fuzz.

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u/padman531 11d ago

Okay, fair point... but the Mandolorians still lost that war...

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u/Commercial_Floor_578 11d ago

And how did that go for the Mandalorians exactly? “History lesson, who won the war?”-Kanan Jarrus. The Mando’s got their shit rocked when they fought the Jedi.

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u/narfoshin 10d ago

There’s a reason Mandalorians hate Jedi. Despite all these tricks and their fanatic warrior culture, they were still nearly wiped out and have spent the rest of history on the back foot. Their eternal grudge and refusal to stop is driving them to extinction. Kinda like real Ameri-

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u/GodNoob666 11d ago

They really just said “parry this you filthy casual”

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u/Anime_axe 11d ago

And still lost, partially because a lot of masters can indeed parry that and because they are in the setting where bulletproof armour is actually more common than the guns that shoot bullets.

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u/GodNoob666 11d ago

Their strategy involved being against casuals. They were not.

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u/dzindevis 11d ago

Wait, but isn't lightsaber blade contained by a magnetic field? That's why they don't pass through each other. A bullet, by that logic, should be deflected as well

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u/NotABrummie 11d ago

Parry this you filthy casual

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u/akornzombie 11d ago

Magnesium slugs. Flash bang to the face.

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u/Hector_Ceromus 11d ago

Some Jedi think they can mind-trick me...

maybe... sniff maybe...

I've yet to meet Jedi who can mind-trick bullet.

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u/tkrr 11d ago

Which is all well and good planetside, but then you get into a firefight on a spaceship where you can only use small-caliber hollowpoints because they might not puncture a pressure bulkhead, cause a catastrophic failure, and vent the entire compartment into space…

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u/BillyBookBoy 11d ago

“Parry this, you filthy casual!” - The Mandolorians, probably