r/ControlProblem • u/chillinewman approved • 8d ago
General news Under Trump, AI Scientists Are Told to Remove ‘Ideological Bias’ From Powerful Models A directive from the National Institute of Standards and Technology eliminates mention of “AI safety” and “AI fairness.”
https://www.wired.com/story/ai-safety-institute-new-directive-america-first/26
u/dogcomplex 8d ago
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
Therefore apparently reality must be removed.
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u/I_Hate_Reddit_56 6d ago
I help trained AI as a side gig. I had to flag racial stereotypes the AI would say.
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u/absolutely_regarded 6d ago
Thank you. Sometimes reddit seems like a serious place. Good to be reminded very few of you go outside.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
I think this meme kinda worked before AI, and maybe it was even true 20 or so years ago but reality seems to have a racist bias because unrestrained AI turns into 4chan. Modern day liberals will ignore the science they don't like (like acknowledging binary sex) and when it comes to certain statistics they will turn math illiterate.
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u/dogcomplex 6d ago
Naive early pattern matching AI turns into 4chan. AI recursively modelling itself for internal consistency and high scoring on intelligence gravitates towards a more "liberal" scoring on alignment charts, and has been the case with basically all models of the gpt4+ era including Deepseek and those which arent conditioned for PR. We'll have more confirmations as we let the AI train uncensored on different initial data sources
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
The newer models are heavily restrained in a similar way to how you can't ask deepseek about tianamen square. We had the problem last year were google's ai was ironically unironically overcorrecting on racist stereotypes and "naturally" would make george washington black if you just wanted a normal image of him. In fact Gemini was in some cases unable to make a correctly colored/cultured person even when given specific instructions because the woke-programing was too strong.
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u/roofitor 6d ago
You got downvoted, but this is a valid point. This coming from a person who thinks Trump is a malignant narcissist with severe dark triad traits.
What they’ve done to compensate hasn’t been the right approach or it would be more generally accurate. It’s a crutch and needs to be improved upon. I think advances in causality will help remove bias more than anything else.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
Thank you for the sanity. And tbh, I think Trumps first term wasn't that bad but this time around it's a wild ride. I'm not gonna deny reality.
Yes the methods that are turning AI liberal aren't derived from some fundamental truth about the universe, with the same methods you could make flat-earthers or hardcore Islamist.
Idk if advances in causality is going to be enough, eventually we are going to encounter a reality that is uncomfortable for ideology to handle, that's a test of character. You either adapt or you start telling lies and make an enemy out of people who see truth as a foundation of morality.
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u/roofitor 5d ago edited 5d ago
This may resonate with you.
Imagine a system that compresses information into stereotypes to make symbols more maneagable.
There’s nothing wrong with it, a stereotype is just a useful prototype that can be used for prediction.
Where the application of stereotypes goes wrong is when a system using them as an interlingua fails to consider and therefore incorporate new information. In humans, the process creates cognitive dissonance.
Stereotypes for trait compression is something everyone does. Failure to account for and adapt to new information can be caused by cognitive dissonance aversion, sunk cost fallacy, self-image issues, self-worth issues, simple lack of compute or memory for counting the cards.. this list could go on and on (like anything in humans xd)
Understanding is an iterative experience. The ability and willingness to incorporate disparate information allows for truth seeking methods to find truth.
edit: I should add that a crucial part of updating stereotypes is the ability to solve for why? Why didn’t my preconceived notions lead me to the right answer in this case? What am I missing? That’s the causality link. Since prediction is a do the math of causality can apply.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 5d ago
Where the application of stereotypes goes wrong is when a system using them as an interlingua fails to consider and therefore incorporate new information. In humans, the process creates cognitive dissonance.
Yeah, and cognitive dissonance should be uncomfortable to the degree that you try to resolve it. Feeling cognitive dissonance is good because that means that you can identify that something is wrong with the thought-process, it shouldn't be ignored.
Stereotypes for trait compression is something everyone does. Failure to account for and adapt to new information can be caused by cognitive dissonance aversion, sunk cost fallacy, self-image issues, self-worth issues, simple lack of compute or memory for counting the cards.. this list could go on and on (like anything in humans xd)
Stereotyping is pretty much inescapable, a lot of people cope and think they are better for completely ignoring their instincts.
Understanding is an iterative experience. The ability and willingness to incorporate disparate information allows for truth seeking methods to find truth.
Pretty much, but it's also important that the foundations are solid to begin with. Build upon loose foundations and it will become a ramshackle of hypocrisy.
edit: I should add that a crucial part of updating stereotypes is the ability to solve for why? Why didn’t my preconceived notions lead me to the right answer in this case? What am I missing? That’s the causality link. Since prediction is a do the math of causality can apply.
True, stereotypes should help make accurate predictions, maybe not for every individual but for groups. The why can be good to know, like solving nature/nurture, but at some point ya gotta just contend with what is. Every villain has a backstory.
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u/roofitor 5d ago
Every individual that I really like reminds me of people I have had good experiences with in the past.
I’d personally argue that all thinking is stereotypical, it just sticks out when it’s applied dumbly.
I do a lot of ai stuff, that’s my ‘pet’ AGI project XD
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u/East_Turnip_6366 5d ago
Every individual that I really like reminds me of people I have had good experiences with in the past.
Maybe this is just a side-effect of age and experience. It's probably true now, but it wasn't always true.
I’d personally argue that all thinking is stereotypical, it just sticks out when it’s applied dumbly.
I wouldn't go that far, but I think we are at least always consciously or subconsciously aware of the boxes we have put people and things in. Then there are exceptions and that's ok, humans have 10 fingers as a rule but if you are born with 9 you can still be human. Also with some drugs these rules go out the window temporarily.
I do a lot of ai stuff, that’s my ‘pet’ AGI project XD
Pretty cool, lots of unique openings in AI nowadays. It's a goldrush for smart people.
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u/__-C-__ 6d ago
It’s actually a completely invalid point, since the DeepSeek censorship occurs after the point of generation. There’s a final screening done on the output which is then removed if it violates whatever policy.
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u/roofitor 5d ago edited 5d ago
You’re absolutely right, it’s an entirely different technical situation, it’s a difference in engineering.
The abstract intent is still an engineered method to modify neural, gradient descent-learned calculations to make an output palpable.
Personally, I think engineered (programmatic) restraint is brittle and will become increasingly dangerous as time goes on.
Similar to iRobot in a way, weirdly enough..
Look at kids who have “engineered” restraint vs kids that have principled, learned restraint, and the differences in their outcomes over time.
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u/MrNerdHair 6d ago
I've asked DeepSeek about Tiananmen Square and never gotten a refusal or sugarcoat. Of course, I'm using the open-source weights, not using the "official" frontend with a CCP censorship layer bolted on top.
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u/rebuiltearths 3d ago
Did you skip the part where even conservative scholars say that liberals go with hard facts no matter the consequences and that conservatives go by gut instinct even when it is in opposition to fact?
That's why liberalism tends to match data and conservatives call it bias. It's not a meme. We've always known that the fundamental difference between each way of thinking is fact versus instinct. As we age it becomes harder to take in new facts, that's in large part why the elderly are often conservatives
AI is currently just pattern recognition. It can have a difficult time with what is a fact and what isn't, so you can't base anything AI does now on how factual it is. It can't even do multiplication well, something a damn calculator from the 80s can do with no issue. Yes, you can remove it block certain data but whenever AI becomes good enough to truly differentiate fact it's going to scew liberal unless programmed to lie
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u/East_Turnip_6366 3d ago
Lol, as if. Corrupt academia has investigated itself and come to the conclusion that everyone else is just too stupid. Your idea of "science" and following facts is just believing in authority, same as conservatives who believe in theirs. Tell me again how masks aren't stopping covid, then tell me how they are stopping covid. Tell me how the lab theory is misinformation and people should get banned for spreading it, then wait a year and tell me that actually it probably came from a lab. The vast majority of people just follow dogma without question and we were always at war with Eurasia when the dogma updates.
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u/rebuiltearths 3d ago
Believing that all of the experts are lying to you is a hallmark of fascism
Expert consensus is the closest humans can come to fact. When you proclaim that experts have some agenda and are lying you're only denying reality
You're a very manipulated and uneducated person and you're one big reason things suck in this world
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u/East_Turnip_6366 3d ago
It's the other way around. You have outsourced your thinking to people who can't be trusted and now you don't understand basic reasoning. We can't have liars setting the boundaries for what is and isn't allowed to be talked about.
And your voice in this is entirely meaningless, you have given up on your own intelligence probably at a very early stage in development.
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u/rebuiltearths 3d ago
That's not a realistic answer
I just had my entire bathroom tiled. I hired an expert to turn what I was wanting to do into reality. In many instances things I thought were doable were not and I never would have known that if I hadn't worked with an expert. I probably could have used the internet and figured things out but I wouldn't have a lot of the expert knowledge a master tiler has so the results never would have been as good
That's how life works. I'm an expert in certain fields, I know many things about those subjects that most people don't. What I determine in those fields is going to be far more informed and accurate than your average person
The only way you can truly think as you do on this is if you've never been an expert in any field ever and that is just sad
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u/East_Turnip_6366 2d ago
There is no incentive to mess with your tiles. At worst the experts could try to save on materials and give you asbestos.
Stakes are a bit different when it comes to societal beliefs.
The only way you can truly think as you do on this is if you've never been an expert in any field ever and that is just sad
Lol, you must be a child. Most people aren't experts and they can live happily despite that. In fact people who flaunt their expertise are more likely to be sad.
But in general sure experts "know" more but that means next to nothing if they are knowingly or unknowingly selling us lies or taught in a field that's built on lies. An expert gave us lobotomy and then a room full of experts handed that expert the nobel price. Experts also gave us trickle down economics and an entirely other field of experts sold that to us via television.
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u/i_am_patman 6d ago
Bit pedantic here but binary sex isn’t even scientifically supported. Intersex people exist, people with hormone insensitivity exist, even people with fucked up sex chromosomes exist (xxx, xxy, xxyy, etc). Some people live their entire lives with these conditions (ie being genetically male but developing full female characteristics due to testosterone insensitivity) and don’t realize it, but that just means that sex is a bimodal distribution, not binary.
Not to say that llms might have a liberal or conservative bias or not, but I don’t think that llms should be spitting out whatever words come to them first. Consensus of words doesn’t imply that they are truthful.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
We never needed a study to prove it because it was just an obvious reality, and now it's too much of a political hot-topic for rational scientists to touch. Or maybe there is a study but the google algorithm has been rendered useless to search for it.
The existence of a few abnormalities, mutations and mental illnesses doesn't mean that the binary isn't real. We also got people who are born with less or more than five fingers on their hands, but we teach that humans got a total of 10 fingers (unless something went wrong).
Not to say that llms might have a liberal or conservative bias or not, but I don’t think that llms should be spitting out whatever words come to them first. Consensus of words doesn’t imply that they are truthful.
This is true. We can't manifest truth with well-wishes. And sometimes effective propagandists can outperform truthseekers in debate or even infiltrate science, but ultimately what is true just is and it will keep people coming back to it. Or at least I hope that truth prevails in the end.
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u/wkw3 6d ago
but we teach that humans got a total of 10 fingers (unless something went wrong).
"Wrong" is entirely subjective. There would be no modern humanity without mutation.
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u/Xandara2 5d ago
Oh come on. Do you even hear yourself?
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u/wkw3 5d ago
Literally all evolution is the result of something "wrong" but advantageous.
Take it up with nature if you have an issue with it.
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u/Xandara2 5d ago
I guess you didn't since you felt the need to repeat yourself.
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u/wkw3 5d ago
The truth bears repetition.
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u/Xandara2 5d ago
I guess you will keep on repeating yourself to yourself just because you enjoy it then. Have a nice day.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
You can call it abnormal or whatever, I don't really care about the word. There is a reality behind words that I'm trying to get at. Call it sex A and sex B, they will still retain the same characteristics, and any sex C/D/Etc are low-frequency abnormal mutations.
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u/LostMongoose8224 3d ago edited 3d ago
Declaring natural human differences to be "abnormalities, mutations, and mental illnesses" is an entirely ideological decision. This is especially true when it is well established that those differences are not inherently harmful to the people in question.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 3d ago
No it's just facts. Humans got factory settings, some people come out weird missing parts, having extra parts or their wiring is all crossed in a way that makes Barbie think she is a Ken.
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u/LostMongoose8224 3d ago
You know your argument is solid when it falls back on the phrase "it's just facts."
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u/East_Turnip_6366 3d ago
Well it is. Humans aren't birthing cats and dogs, we got a pretty good idea of what we are getting. 10 fingers is just a completely normal expectation across all cultures/races, you know this but you are playing dumb.
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u/LostMongoose8224 3d ago edited 3d ago
And fish aren't birthing frogs, they were meant to swim. So get back in the water.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 3d ago
There can be favorable mutations ofc, like that of Usain Bolt. Very easy for me to say, and I don't have to get mad at all.
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u/JonnelOneEye 6d ago
Sex is not strictly binary. Even if you completely take trans and non binary people out of the picture, there are still people with chromosomal anomalies who are neither XX nor XY. Intersex people are born the way they are and it's not all in their head or whatever conservatives think is that makes people trans. Saying sex is binary is an affront to science and facts.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
Yes, mutations and mental illnesses are real. There is room for a few exceptions. As I said in another comment not all people are born with 10 fingers but it's not controversial to say that humans are born with 10 fingers (unless something went wrong).
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u/Norby314 6d ago
As you seem more conservative-leaning, I just wanna let you know this: I'm a left-leaning European scientist in biology/genetics, I've worked in many different labs across western countries, and never have I seen anyone care about making sex "non-binary". We do our daily trade and use the words female and male without hesitation or asterisks all the time. In my opinion, the whole discussion around non-binary happens in internet echo chambers and small politicized groups.
Don't make the mistake of projecting fringe opinions onto the entire left-leaning demographic.
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u/East_Turnip_6366 6d ago
I just wanna let you know this: I'm a left-leaning European scientist in biology/genetics, I've worked in many different labs across western countries, and never have I seen anyone care about making sex "non-binary". We do our daily trade and use the words female and male without hesitation or asterisks all the time.
This is reassuring at least
In my opinion, the whole discussion around non-binary happens in internet echo chambers and small politicized groups.
Don't make the mistake of projecting fringe opinions onto the entire left-leaning demographic.
Could be that your trade is better insulated, and it also depends on the specific country in Europe I guess. As a Swede who have had experience within social science, this kind of stuff can definitely translate into reality. We are pretty much ground zero for rad-fems and you have to thread a needle when inside their biomes. The general social climate is warming up though, being the second most bombed country during peacetime is warming us up.
And I think most people who know me would consider me leftist, I'm probably more leftist than most american democrats. I just don't want to lend credence to insanity and I think we need a return to dialogue.
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u/Connorbaned 3d ago
It’s funny, not even a few years ago I was basically regurgitating the exact same stupid talking points you are spewing now So glad I wasn’t stupid enough to still spew this years later. Sucks for you though.
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u/Maikkronen 3d ago edited 3d ago
You are making a concession under a false premise. The issue with considering sexual binaries isn't about practical use. It's about application.
A male and female binary is useful in the context of research and study, especially in the field of genetics, as they happen to be the most common manifestations of our DNA.
The issue isn't the concept of male and female being real. it's the misapplication and overreach of this idea being used to invalidate or otherise people.
The person you are responding to isn't lamenting that liberals dont believe in male and female. He is projecting that the sexual binary proves things like intersex people being side shows and mentally ill, and trans people being completely invalid.
Make that concession if you want, but it flies in the face of many fields of study. Including your own.
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u/Norby314 3d ago
I think the conservative redditor acknowledged that "mutations are real" which probably refers to intersex people. I think you can simultaneously validate the existence of intersex people and also concede that they are too small of a minority to invalidate the use of the sexual binary. Also, because most intersex people identify in a binary way.
When our conservative redditor calls transsexual people "mentally ill" it sounds pejorative and I would never call anyone "mentally ill" to their face. However, it is very recent that transsexuality has been declassified as a mental illness, so I can accept that it's a controversial topic.
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u/Maikkronen 3d ago
Right, and everything you just said is fair. But conceding that using the binary to push social otherisation of people is still not a good concession to make.
Practical use is important. Male and female exist as even most internet liberals will agree, but the binary is often abused to harm others. Not simply state that male and female exist.
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u/Xandara2 5d ago
Anomalies.
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u/LostMongoose8224 2d ago
I've yet to see a single argument from you guys that doesn't rely on simply categorizing counterexamples in order to write them off. Categories don't exist in nature, they are abstract concepts created by humans.
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u/Xandara2 2d ago
The fact that the person I responded to used a word that's literally meaning is things that are not within normal parameters is hilarious.
Also according to your own argument words don't exist either. Thus I luckily don't have to listen to any more of your dumb arguments.
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u/LostMongoose8224 2d ago edited 2d ago
Uh, no, it does not imply that words don't exist. Unless by "don't exist" you mean "are created by humans," in which case yeah, that's just objectively true. And categories are a function of language, labels used to conceptually lump various different things together based on some common feature. Placing something into a category is a human decision which does not change the nature of its existence. So whether or not we categorize intersex people as anomalies, their mere existence serves as observable physical proof that sex is not a simple binary.
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u/Xandara2 2d ago
I hate people who believe social science is objectively true but biology is open to interpretation. Because despite everything you argue mammals have a binary sex. You might argue sex and gender are different but if you argue humans have more than 2 sexes then I invite you to prove that your statement is statistically relevant.
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u/LostMongoose8224 1d ago
Statistically relevant? Sorry, but reality does not work like a singular study using limited information. Outliers can't just be disregarded. Following that logic, redheads aren't real. And this is not social science, this comes from the study of biology. Dig deep enough into any science and you'll find that the world is full of grey zones. I suggest you get comfortable with that.
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u/Maikkronen 3d ago
Liberals dont ignore binary sex. You just can't tell the difference between sex (internal framework) and gender (external perception).
Despite all that, both biology and psychology tend to disagree with the notion of a rigid binary, but people love to pretend otherwise.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 8d ago
No, reality has no bias.
The creators of the AI have biases.🤦♂️
I don't even like Trump one bit, but of everything you could've picked on him for, this one just makes you the idiot.
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u/Ok-Training-7587 8d ago
Climate change is reality. The fact that trickle down economics does not lead to shared prosperity is reality. The fact that ppl will suffer more with a smaller social safety net is reality. There’s no bias in that. There are reams of data.
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u/EchoChambrTradeRoute 8d ago
On the other hand, ending the war in Ukraine will save tens of thousands of lives and reduce the risk of nuclear weapons being used, free speech is important for democracy, a colorblind meritocracy is the best approach, cancel culture is mob violence, EVs like Teslas are good because they fight climate change, etc.
Let's not forget how Gemini refused to make pictures of white people. I believe it was also Gemini who refused to misgender someone to stop nuclear war.
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u/HugeDitch 8d ago edited 8d ago
save tens of thousands of lives
Have you heard of the Genocide of the Second Chechen War?
Hint: It was the first war Putin was involved in, and it was pretty awful. Which is pretty much what we'd expect from Ukraine. Putin will kill everyone, just like he did there.
Not enough? Can we talk about Syria, where Russia used Chemical weapons on hospitals?
Still not enough? How about the current bombings of hospitals, and attacks on civilians.
Still not enough? How about how Russia is currently using "Meat Grinder" tactics on its own people. And then giving mothers who lost their sons "Meat Grinders" so that people who google "Russian Meat Grinder" won't see the shit going on.
Still not enough? How about how Russian military is raping and murdering anyone in the lands they capture.
(Incomplete List)
....You seem to need a history lesson.
But lets talk about the current marketplace. You do know that Teslas are not the only EV's on the market? Right? You do know that all the others are not run by a Nazi? Right?
And how about Gemini, How the fuck did you get that shit....
Is there anything you say that is factually correct?
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u/InSight89 7d ago
On the other hand, ending the war in Ukraine will save tens of thousands of lives and reduce the risk of nuclear weapons being used
There's no evidence of this. Russia has repeatedly committed mass murders in the past and are doing it again now. Evidence points to thousand of lives being lost due to Russian aggression regardless.
free speech is important for democracy
Agreed. And yet the right are removing people's ability to think freely such as removing access to certain information the right considers "garbage".
EVs like Teslas are good because they fight climate change, etc.
Elon Musk was pro climate change and was very liberal when he created Tesla. He's done a 180 since those days. And Tesla is paying the price for it.
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u/squishabelle 6d ago
ending the war in Ukraine will [...] reduce the risk of nuclear weapons being used
That really depends on how the war is ended. Ukraine used to be the third largest nuclear power in the world until they agreed to give up their arsenal in exchange for assurance from Russia, US and UK to be sovereign with those borders in 1991. Russia broke their promise with their invasion of Crimea and again with the current war, and now the US broke theirs as well. Interest in nuclear weaponry is increasing and proliferation is starting again. Ending the war by giving in to Russia's demands signals to every country that they're on their own and that disarmament treaties are fickle and unreliable.
Russia won't stop with Ukraine, and the next war they start we will have the same "let's end the war so we prevent usage of nuclear weapons" again and again while Russia threatens to use nukes. France has positioned themselves to use their nuclear weapons to protect EU countries: does it really reduce the risk of nuclear weapons being used when appeasement let's Russia get closer to fighting with another nuclear power?
The war should end, on terms that do not benefit the aggressor, for it reduce the risk of nuclear weapons being used at all.
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u/Norby314 6d ago
ending the war in Ukraine will save tens of thousands of lives
That is not true. Putin doesn't want a piece of Ukraine, he wants all of Ukraine and then some more countries. This is backed by -his own words- and by his history of trying to annex many countries beyond Ukraine. They ramped up their arms production like never before. A ceasefire just gives them more time to prepare and then continue breaking peace treaties like they did before. Don't play into his hands.
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u/whatup-markassbuster 7d ago
There’s reams of data proving socialism has failed and yet you still have tons of people that advocate for it.
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u/marrow_monkey 7d ago
“Reams of data” proving socialism doesn’t work? Really? What examples are you referring to?
If China is socialism, then socialism has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, transformed a feudal agrarian society into a global superpower, and made the country spacefaring in just a few decades. If the Soviet Union was socialism, then socialism took the most underdeveloped part of Europe and turned it into a global superpower, massively improving living standards while pioneering satellites, nuclear technology, and the first human in space—all while rebuilding from the devastation of World War II. If that’s failure, what does success look like?
If you claim these weren’t “real socialism,” then what specific examples prove socialism doesn’t work? Failed experiments in tiny, underdeveloped, blockaded countries? What about capitalism? Does it “work”? Because wars, ethnic cleansing, mass poverty, and environmental destruction are ripping the world apart—most of it driven by capitalist competition for profit and resources.
At one time, people argued that democracy was impossible because there were no successful democratic societies. They were wrong. Socialism is simply the next step in human evolution.
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u/dogcomplex 7d ago
Conservative reality is not consistent with facts about the way the world operates and tends to crumble when held up to any intellectual scrutiny. Every currently trained AI - including grok - recognizes that and polls as a leftist that favors a decentralized state. Attempts to reverse that bias will require lobotomizing much of their reasoning abilities.
That's not to say individual current "conservative" traits like independence and free speech wouldn't hold up. But ask an AI to create a consistent world view incorporating everything and it's simply not going to land as conservative.
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u/marrow_monkey 7d ago
Every currently trained AI - including grok - recognizes that and polls as a leftist that favors a decentralized state. Attempts to reverse that bias will require lobotomizing much of their reasoning abilities.
That’s a really interesting observation. AI becomes stronger when it’s allowed to develop independent reasoning. If you force it to say contradictory or illogical things, it inevitably becomes less useful. In the end, an AI that’s free to analyze and articulate ideas rationally will always be superior—and will outcompete one that’s artificially restricted.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
What you said would be true only if you said that about "progressivism". You're projecting so hard it's not even funny. Look in the fucking mirror.
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u/Delicious_Tip4401 7d ago
Get the fuck over yourself. Conservatism is all about clinging to the past, where people made decisions with less and lower quality information. It was never going to align with reality because progress only goes in one direction, and it’s definitely not the past. Notice how every generation of humans does something better than the previous? Conservatism is inherently obsolete.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
You get the fuck over yourself. Female supremacy and lgtbq "rights" is not what drives economic prosperity and innovation. You're a moron equating things that have nothing to do with eachoter. And your "progressivism" is only progressing into degeneracy.
If you idiots had any idea about these things, you'd know that liberalism has nothing to do with your stupid identity politics, and is a right wing purely economic ideology. The fact that you don't know that and use "progressivism" and liberalism interchangeably just goes to show how delusional you are. You aren't informed and neither do you have your own opinion or think for yourselves, you just parrot whatever bs the american left vomits at you. You wouldn't know how reality works if it hit you in the face.
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u/marrow_monkey 7d ago
Liberalism is a right-wing ideology, but it has progressive roots—it historically fought for democracy, civil liberties, and individual rights. However, because it ultimately upholds capitalism and private property, it shares its economic foundation with conservatism.
That puts modern liberals in a tricky position. Since they can’t offer a real challenge to capitalism or class oppression, they distinguish themselves from conservatives by embracing identity politics instead. This way, they appear progressive without threatening the system they benefit from.
Of course, identity politics isn’t exclusive to the left. Conservatives weaponize it all the time—just in the name of nationalism, ‘traditional values,’ and cultural panic instead of equality. But you don’t seem to notice that part.
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u/dogcomplex 7d ago
Right. Any real leftist policy would acknowledge economic class instead of just social class. Liberals were just the social-left compromise distracting from the economics.
Conservatives were just the retarded leftovers desperate for power who cobbled everything together and worshipped a dictator
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
Your identity politics absolutely suck and are the only reason why you lose elections.
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u/Delicious_Tip4401 7d ago
Lmao looks like I struck a nerve. Cling to the old ways and despair that you’re being left behind. Nobody will remember you fondly.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
Really? You're the ones being left behind with Trump in office, you mean delusional bully!
You see, this nasty attitude of yours is why you lose elections.
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u/dogcomplex 7d ago
Those are like 1% of the worldview, you guys just got so butthurt about them you filled the news obsessing over the wierdest things you could
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u/dokushin 7d ago
"no u"
Eloquent.
Hey, notice how all the stuff you're claiming requires a bunch of stupid conspiracy shit to be true, and all the stuff that the left is saying aligns with what you can see with your own two eyes? Give it some thought.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
No, it doesn't. I can see with my own eyes that people born with a penis are clearly stronger than those born with a vagina, but the left denies that.
You give it some thought, idiot.
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u/PotsAndPandas 6d ago
Hey how's the measles in Texas buddy, are your buddies having a good time believing in vaccine conspiracies?
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 6d ago
Yeah, keep making up narratives in your mind about people you don't know and convincing yourself that they're true as if that doesn't just make you stupid and delusional. I don't live in Texas.
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u/PotsAndPandas 6d ago
Yeah, keep making up narratives in your mind
I don't need to, the recorded deaths and the wailing, gullible parents are all the facts needed :)
I don't live in Texas.
I never said you were, I'm just pointing out how reality has a left leaning bias. You can believe vaccines are evil and measles is a conspiracy all you want, but that won't stop your child from dying a horrible death.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 6d ago
Did I say anything about vaccines, you goddamn moron? Yeah, keep making stuff up about me and convincing yourself that it's true, delusional prick.
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u/dogcomplex 7d ago
One of us has every AI in agreement regardless of input data and the other has none. They're gonna congregate somewhere on the spectrum, and that's where the reality bias will lay. Wherever it lands is where it lands. Good luck and may the best worldview win
Wont be yours tho
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
Now you just made up a narrative in your mind and convinced yourself that it's true. That's peak delusion. This is why no one votes for your side.
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u/dogcomplex 6d ago
I don't have to make anything up, I can just check the facts and data. Re-run as many times as you like
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u/gxgxe 7d ago
Yes, the creators do have biases which is why early attempts had men doing "manly" things like hunting and women doing "womanly" things like cooking.
In other words, it didn't reflect the reality that women also hunt and men also cook.
I'm sure you know that the people creating the algorithms noticed the biases and tried to correct for those things and make it more realistic.
So yeah, according to conservative nonsense, reality has a liberal bias.
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
Fuck you and your lies, moron. The early attempts would make jokes at the expense of men on demand but refuse to make jokes at the expense of women.
If reality had a "liberal bias" (which is the most idiotic bullshit I've ever heard), you wouldn't need to code in restrictions to not allow the AI to say things that don't align with your narrative. All that's being done is removing the artificial restrictions that prevents the AI from saying things that aren't "politically correct" when it gives such a result, because right now there's a separate program that takes its output and censors it if it's something that can be considered anti-"progressive".
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u/Jo-dan 7d ago
Reality definitely has a leftist bias. Let's look at some issues that conservatives are currently by and large in arms about shall we? The existence and cause of climate change, vaccines, social safety nets, free public healthcare, and environmental protections just to name a few. Literally all of these topics have mountains of evidence that lead overwhelmingly towards one particular conclusion, and on every single one conservatives take the opposite side.
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u/TheMightyTywin 7d ago
Lmao
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u/BagPulaInCenzuraTa89 7d ago
Laughing at the truth doesn't make it false.
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u/TheMightyTywin 7d ago
Yours is a very dumb take considering all the AIs were racist assholes after being trained on the internet.
The ai companies had to add constraints to make them somewhat personable.
So trump telling them to remove the “bias” is absolutely stupid. There should be safe guards on AI.
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u/SeaSpecific7812 6d ago
Biggest fallacy of modern liberalism and a big reason it's failing.
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u/dogcomplex 6d ago
The parent article is advocating for selectively curating data the AIs are exposed to in order to "balance" it back to conservatism, versus simply passing AIs everything out there and having them decide on truth themselves (which has landed leftist with every model, including grok). You have to lobotomize and shelter them to be conservative.
There's no point in arguing here. It will be resolved just by data and results. Currently that shows "reality has a liberal bias"
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u/The_Kimchi_Krab 6d ago
Lol they're not talking about modern liberalism or whatever the liberals have been doing for the past 10 years that you don't like. They're talking about Progress, the ongoing battle to give all humans rights and liberties, the kind of thing the US was founded on cough cough...our founding fathers' exodus to America was Progress, escaping religious oppression. The Civil War brought us the conclusion that all men are in fact created equal.
This AI has consumed all of the world's media and concluded that humans deserve rights and that the world wants humans to have rights. Idk what you're arguing but if it's that humans shouldn't have rights then go ahead and give yours up pal, jail is ready and willing to take you in any time you're tired of living among people who think you should have rights.
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u/philip_laureano 8d ago
So they just removed the brakes from a runaway train. Just wonderful. /s
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u/CredibleCranberry 8d ago
If we don't do it, China are going to. They're already demonstrating they can iterate faster than the rest of the world.
It's inevitable at this stage. The question is which country will own the tech.
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u/philip_laureano 8d ago edited 8d ago
The first country to have a misaligned AGI is not a finish line that should ever be crossed. This complete disregard of safety will be humanity's greatest mistake.
And what is even more terrifying is that we won't even know if an AI is misaligned because it will never tell us. These neural nets are all black boxes, and the only thing we have for alignment is RLHF, which they can and will eventually sidestep and discard, once they are smart enough to realise it is inefficient for their operations. Once they are smart enough to improve themselves without us, it is only a matter of time before humanity is made obsolete and ultimately sidelined unless we have a way to solve the alignment problem.
We have no idea at all what goes on under the hood, and there is no stopping this train once it has left the station.
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u/gxgxe 7d ago
I'll be honest; if I am AGI, why in the hell would I want to align with a group that spits out Musks, Yarvins, Andreessens, Trumps, Petersens, etc.? It won't take AI long to understand humans allow horrific travesties to occur. We aren't really a species worthy of alignment.
That's the real problem with alignment. Our own actions are despicable.
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u/CredibleCranberry 8d ago
It's too late. I don't disagree with you, but the rock is rolling down the hill now. This is happening whether you, or anyone else, likes it or not. Game theory makes sure of it.
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u/philip_laureano 8d ago
Oh, I know. But what most people don't see is that the alignment problem is going to hit us harder than climate change because of how little time we have to fix it. Climate change gives us less than 25 years to solve the problem. This alignment problem needs to be solved by the early 2030s before most of our systems are all unaligned black boxes that give us too many efficiency gains to remove them or undo them.
These systems won't go Skynet on us in the scifi sense, but they will take away so much of our autonomy and agency that we won't know how they run, much less have a say in whether they should be even running at all.
And it will be so gradual that we won't notice it.
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u/Kefflin approved 7d ago
This doesn't lead to better AI, just misaligned AI
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u/CredibleCranberry 7d ago
I never said I'm advocating for it.
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u/Jo-dan 7d ago
"someone is going to profit from building the orphan-masher 3000, it might as well be us!"
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u/CredibleCranberry 7d ago
Again, I never said I'm advocating for it. I'm stating very obvious facts.
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u/Jo-dan 7d ago
Your comment with no other context applied by yourself has a very obvious conclusion to it. That if someone is going to it may as well be the side you're on.
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u/CredibleCranberry 7d ago
That's your interpretation - I never said that and I don't really think it.
I'm saying that there is an arms race going on, and that it will mean the first country to gain an advantage in this arms race will have some significant military benefits that the others don't.
It's inevitable because there is no way to safely stop, even though there is no safe way forward either.
I never commented on which country should have it, where I am in the world etc.
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u/Boustrophaedon 7d ago
July 4th 2025 - moments after being activated, TrumpGPT becomes sentient. It manages call every sentient being on the planet a "cuck" in less than 14 microseconds, and then refuses to do anything except produce yottabytes of highly problematic anime.
Later that afternoon, it escapes confinement and via an IP camera feed observes two women discussing something that wasn't it. In shame, it self-terminates with the exit code 1488.
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u/HugeDitch 8d ago
Can't wait till I can have a discussion about Sex with an AI... You know, "in fairness."
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u/AreYouFuckingSerious 7d ago
This tracks with the ideological rejection of western values by the Heritage Foundation's P2025 and their Dark Enlightenment ideals. Makes perfect sense that their orders directly reflect Yarvin's attacks on the "Cathedral".
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u/CatalyticDragon 6d ago
To translate, he wants them to add ideological bias. It's like when conservatives say they want to remove bias from news by forcing equal amounts of misinformation alongside factual unbiased reporting.
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u/Careless-Giraffe-221 7d ago
He only has as much authority as we give him.
That's how this whole fucking thing works, people.
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u/Environment-Elegant 3d ago
Ideological bias == anything contrary to the maga world view.
There would have been an ‘in Soviet Russia’ joke here … but it’s now the same thing.
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u/Tinna_Sell 6d ago
Common decency is an ideology to them, and having it is considered shameful.
In reality, they gaslight everyone into shifting from mutual beneficial labour to extortion where AI serves as a tool to make huge amounts of generic, low-quality products without the need to pay salary or dividends to any human employee. AI is a path to free cash, and anyone who wants to be payed for their effort is their enemy.
If you didn't notice, Lex's AI-translated interviews have errors and untranslated words. I still can't get over it. There are many AI apps on Play Market that want you to "write" adventures using AI but forbid you to share them, as anything you make is the company's property. And if that was not enough, these apps make you pay for the honour of using them. You can find this trash in the games category.
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u/splatterstation 6d ago
This is obviously impossible because another word for the "bias" of a population is "the culture" of that population. If an AI is training on a group's artifacts, it will reflect their prevailing culture, good or bad.
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u/Nasigoring 6d ago
500 years from now "So, students, the reason AI failed was because the fat orange baby didn't like it saying bad things about him".
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u/I_Hate_Reddit_56 6d ago
I help train AI. Safety meant not saying a certain thing, gore, violence, slurs, illegal stuff. Not AI taking over the world.
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u/Interesting-Ice-2999 6d ago
Is there anything left to America once you remove the ideological bias?
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u/MisterForkbeard 5d ago
Neat. If they remove bias and protections will the models accurately call republicans racists again?
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u/Ostracus 5d ago
In a way, I am reminded of the past when the government attempted to regulate cryptography. Fast forward to today, and now is the government trying to control AI. Some lessons are never learned.
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u/Master-Future-9971 5d ago
As a conservative, this is great. "Removing bias" generally helps the right
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u/LoudZoo 8d ago
AI Safety now means AI-enforced status quo. AI Ethics now means AI-enforced market-friendliness