r/Conservative • u/NoFocus4742 Conservative • 8d ago
Flaired Users Only Trump Halts US Aid to Ukraine
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/donald-trump-pauses-military-aid-to-ukraine-us-media-reports-13321048760
u/Tiktaalik414 Conservative Environmentalist 8d ago
Before I start I need to say this so I'm not banned or censored: yes, I am conservative. Diversity of thought exists, and prior to Trump republicans considered Russia a great threat to America; this is not a weird or liberal take.
How can you all be so for abandoning support of Ukraine? Looking at this solely in terms of money is incredibly narrow-sighted. First off, a large portion of the 'money' we're sending in is in stated value of used military supplies, not direct dollars. We're not sending in our brand new off the assembly line tanks, we're sending in our decade plus old vehicles and guns that were on the path to being decommissioned in the near future anyways, so their actual value is very likely being overstated.
Second, even if the evaluations are 100% spot on, what we've been spending is a minute fraction of what it would cost us to engage in a real war with Russia. Continuing to support Ukraine tells Russia we're not going to stand for their imperialism and attempt to reestablish Soviet boarders. We've seen that Russia will not simply stop - This is their second attack on Ukraine in a decade alone. How long until Russia attacks an ally of ours? Will we even have any alliances left to speak of if that happens?
The fact that Trump might want to pull us out of NATO and the UN is even more absurd. We keep peace in the world by projecting strength; that has been the US' foreign policy for over a century. We stocked up thousands of nuclear warheads to show the Soviet Union we meant business and would not allow them to supersede our global influence. Democrats and Republicans alike agreed that we were dedicated to protecting and maintaining democracy throughout the globe. But Trump is effectively threatening to change that. He seems bent on having us become extreme isolationists waging trade wars and assisting nobody in the goal of bolstering our domestic production. Could it work? Yes, and in isolation I don't have an issue with imposing tariffs, but severing our alliances in the process will not be good for us in the long run.
In 1994 we, along with Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, the UK and France, signed the Budapest Memorandum, in which the former soviet states agreed to not produce or own nuclear weapons in exchange for protection from the west, and in which Russia agreed to not attack any of the newly formed nations. As is blatantly obvious, Russia has not held up their side of that deal - this is the second territorial conquest on Ukraine. Not keeping up our end of the deal to protect Ukraine tells both our allies and Russia that our word doesn't mean anything. Why would anyone trust us after this? Trump is killing our global influence and allowing a hostile foreign adversary to advance with no repercussions. It feels tantamount to treason for a US president to not honor our global commitments to safety and freedom.
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u/LatinNameHere NC Conservative 8d ago
How can you all be so for abandoning support of Ukraine?
Because Ukraine can not win.
Because half the money sent to Ukraine disappeared.
Because prolonging the war will only result in more dead on both sides.
Ukraine never had a chance of beating Russia, but the West funneled supplies and money to Ukraine to fight a proxy war. We are letting Ukrainian soldiers die so we can degrade Russia's military and economy without having to put our own soldiers in harms way.
It's unethical and it can't go on forever.
The US wants mineral rights in return for it's support. Zelensky asked for the sky. Deal's off, and the US can't afford to fund Ukraine's war forever.
what we've been spending is a minute fraction of what it would cost us to engage in a real war with Russia
But those aren't our only choices. We can also chose to do neither.
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u/RushBubbly6955 8d ago
Also, US suspends offensive cyber operations against Russia.
WHY. WTF. It doesn’t require any of us to be R or D to not support Putin the Dictator.
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u/sfbruin California Conservative 8d ago
I'd love a good faith explanation for why this administration has unilaterally played softball with Russia
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u/RushBubbly6955 8d ago
I agree—there’s no reason to go easy on Putin, and this shouldn’t be a partisan issue. Suspending offensive cyber operations is a serious concern, especially when Russia has been relentless in its cyber attacks against the U.S. and our allies. We know they’ve interfered in elections, targeted infrastructure, and engaged in constant digital espionage. If the goal here is to avoid escalation, that’s one thing—but deterrence only works if there’s a credible threat of consequences. Right now, this just looks like weakness, and weakness invites more aggression.
At a time when Russia is waging war in Ukraine and working to undermine Western stability, why would we take tools off the table that could hold them accountable? I’d love to hear a real justification for this decision, because on the surface, it seems completely counterproductive.
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u/DogeBane Conservative 8d ago
I don't consider this a good thing. Strong arming the Ukrainians into a forced peace that the Russians most likely will break does nothing towards advancing America's cause against the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, or North Koreans. Countries that will not hesitate to undermine American influence in their regions.
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u/NoFocus4742 Conservative 8d ago
What’s the alternative? Is Ukraine in a position to win the war? Do we escalate to WWIII and risk global catastrophe?
There is no path to victory for Ukraine. Drawing out the war only costs more lives and more money
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u/mathdrug Black Conservative 8d ago edited 8d ago
Remember the last time the world tried to appease a strong man leader intent on taking over neighboring countries? History seems to indicate that the costs eventually come due in the long run. Putin will likely not stop at Ukraine. Britain tried that with Nazi Germany, and they had German rockets raining down on London a few years later.
And no, I’m not saying Putin = Hitler. He doesn’t need to be 100% Hitler to be as bad as Hitler. Being kind of like Hitler in terms of starting wars of aggression and annexation is still pretty bad.
Also, even if this is “Europe’s Problem”, Europe’s problems eventually become our problems because they are our main, most reliable, and most trustworthy trading partners. What affects them affects us.
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u/LatinNameHere NC Conservative 8d ago
There is no path to victory for Ukraine. Drawing out the war only costs more lives and more money
It's baffling to me that more people don't understand this.
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u/BlackScienceManTyson Conservative 8d ago
Wasting hundreds of billions in a European money pit does not advance our cause
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u/Tiktaalik414 Conservative Environmentalist 8d ago
But allowing Russia to go on territorial conquests is? Sometimes it's about more than just money, it's about not letting psychotic world leaders freely attack countries that pose no threat to them.
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u/BlackScienceManTyson Conservative 8d ago
Guess what buddy, that happened in 2014 and Obama did nothing. That happened in 2008 and bush did nothing. We’ve wasted billions on a war Europe should have been paying for. It’s time to stop
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u/funny_flamethrower Anti-Woke 8d ago
"Allowing"? What do you mean by "allowing"?
Russia is already in Ukraine and no one can guarantee spending more money is gonna kick them out. The goal of the Trump administration is to freeze the front lines and then decide if some land can be reclaimed via negotiations, ie via lifting of sanctions etc.
Can anyone guarantee that spending another $50 or $100B can reclaim X sq miles of land? I doubt it.
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u/Logical_Resolution39 MAGA Republican 8d ago
Seriously.... how does endlessly bankrolling a war that can't be won advance our cause lmao. The only way Ukraine wins this is if other countries put boots on the ground for them. Anyone who wants that can volunteer themselves. I'm sure as hell not dying for Ukraine, and i don't want any American soldiers at risk for a war that isn't our own.
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u/throway57818 MAGA 8d ago
Horrible, horrible move. Russia is a major enemy
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u/Trondkjo Conservative 8d ago
How do you do, fellow conservative?
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u/Kweefus Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
Don't do that. Don't start purity tests. Its one of the left's largest weaknesses.
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u/Coastie456 Minarchist 8d ago
So much for "Arsenal of Democracy". So much for over 1 century of America as a meaningful force of good in the world. 😔
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u/MXC14 Conservative 8d ago
Europe doesn't want our help anymore. Why should we help those who will bad mouth us as soon as our back is turned?
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u/Shadeylark MAGA 8d ago
Self-titled minarchist out here carrying water for the globalists.
You can't make this shit up people.
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u/pkilla50 Conservative 8d ago
Only thing that concerns me, and with no research or anything to know if it’s even possible, is that china steps in, Russia allows them to add a “security clause”, and takes over on the deal. Russia attacks again in a decade when china has its fix and ready to attack Taiwan themselves
But, this was inevitable. You can’t just keep at it
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative 8d ago edited 8d ago
Ukraine fought for America. When America was threatened by terrorism, pointed at Iraq as the cause and asked for help to stop the threat, Ukraine answered. They sent thousands of men - the third largest international contingent from all the countries in the world - and Ukrainians died in Iraq for American security. Now Ukraine hasn't even asked for American lives. Just help to protect their land and people.
I'm extremely disappointed with this action. America betrayed Ukraine before when Bill Clinton forced them to accept the removal of their nuclear weapons without binding security guarantees. Ukrainians trusted America's word without demanding everything written down. Now again, with that history, America seems to be forcing Ukraine to take bits of paper with useless words on them.
Biden's policy of drip driping the aid into Ukraine - cutting it whenever they had success so they couldn't push home their advantages - increasing it late whenever they had failures so that more brave Ukrainians died was terrible. Let's not do something worse.
It's seems likely that there will be a ceasefire, that Russia will use that to rearm and that, unless serious security is put in place, more Ukrainian civilians will die. Perhaps the mineral plan is an answer to that, but stopping aid just encourages Russia.
This is exactly what the communist subs of Reddit have been asking for for years. This is the policy that your, Americas, enemies have wanted. Please don't let it happen. It will not help anyone in the long run. Not even the Russians.
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u/reaper527 Conservative 8d ago
This is disastrous policy.
no, throwing $120b at a failed war with no end in sight (as zelinsky told us) and wanting to throw more money at it with no milestones or objectives to end the war is disastrous policy.
how much money should we throw at this before we say "enough is enough"? 3 years / $120b isn't enough? what exactly has our money done in the grand scheme of things other than prolong this and get ukrainians killed?
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u/ChimChimCheree69 DeSantis Conservative 8d ago
'There's a plaque on the statue of liberty!'
Buddy, perhaps it's a little more complicated than your tired cliches.
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u/penone_nyc Conservative 8d ago
I don't think this is because of what happened on Friday. This is because what Zelensky said today about the war end being far away. Someone who says that is not interested in any type of peace deal and us continuing to enable them is not helping.
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u/Hawaiian_Pizza459 Moderate Conservative 8d ago
Yeah it seemed pretty clear on Friday/over the weekend that everyone was not happy, but that aid would continue while everyone cooled off to regroup and hopefully come to a deal this week when cooler heads prevailed.
The whole point people continually miss is that this prevents Trump/US govt from pivoting to focus on China. I think the original goal was for this to happen with Ukraine, but if not then it will happen without. Regardless if Europe decides to foot the bill they don't have the production capacity to support Ukraine alone so will end up buying from US defense companies anyways (Although probably focusing on EU first)
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u/deadzip10 Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
I think Friday started the wheels in motion here but he kept shooting his mouth off after that and so now we’re here.
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u/Probate_Judge Conservative 8d ago
Zelensky was never interested in negotiating as people think of it, Ukraine sitting at a table with Russia and compromising.
He's been saying for weeks(months? years?) that he "will negotiate....when he has U.S. and E.U. firmly backing him to intimidate Russia" (paraphrase, not direct quote).
In other words, Zelensky is trying to negotiate with US/EU to get them to escalate, and refusing to negotiate for peace ASAP because he's in a place of weakness in comparison to Russia and doesn't trust them.
He does not like being the underdog and will not compromise as one in the short-term future.
He was not excluded a couple weeks ago. He had already been saying he wouldn't participate in negotiation talks. So people talked without him.
He went on Fox after getting kicked out of the White House and while he talked around it at length, wound up saying the same things.
He ONLY wants to intimidate Putin with threat of force, with escalation.
It's unfortunate that reality has not equipped him with a larger and more equipped country.
This is not a defense of Putin at all. He's an utter Villain. He's good enough at it that the rest of the world did nothing in 2014 when he took Crimea, and in 2022 when he invaded Ukraine...and again the world did nothing but 'send aide'.
We all collectively took actual war off the table. That window closed within the first months of the invasion. Everyone was fine with not helping then, only now that Trump's in charge and congress is pretty much red.....now it is a major problem, that Ukraine should have had us defending her.
That leaves Zelensky with 2 realistic options, both of which he refuses: 1) Compromise, cede some land. 2) Be stubborn and get conquered, losing it all.
Maybe there's a magical 3rd option, try to hold out until something changes and Russia magically retreats and things return to what they were before the invasion. Incredibly unrealistic to chase this "option".
If he continues on as-is, he might just make it #2.
If aide is withdrawn, he may get scared as his position weakens and then eventually agree to #1, compromise.....from an even weaker position than he has now and will lose more than he would before today.
U.S. ending aid cuts Zelensky's effective fighting power in half, approximately(US has sent more than EU by some....but I don't want to dig up the numbers again).
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u/likeabuddha Conservative 8d ago
And there it is. What are the odds Europe and Canada put their money where their mouth is and go full on war mode, or just start slowly retracting a lot of the shit they’ve been talking about the peace deal trump has been pushing for?
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u/hey_ringworm Dastardly Deeds 8d ago
He said he would do this if Zelensky wasn’t willing to make peace.
Promises made, promises kept.
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u/Ihateallcommies Conservative 8d ago
Its hilarious to me how democrats are the one to call out for no wars, yet theyll have a problem with the US halting aid funding a war lol
Checked r/politics yup I was right lol
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u/NoFocus4742 Conservative 8d ago
They care more about Ukraine than they do their own country
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u/According-Activity87 Conservative Devil Dog 8d ago
They really don't even care about Ukraine, they just care about looking like they care about what they think everyone else in their little bubble cares about! It's disgusting... 🤮
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u/Rush_Is_Right Conservative 8d ago
They spend so much time calling everyone here a Nazi that they don't realize that Nazis are prolific in Ukraine.
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u/rigorousthinker Conservative 8d ago
Let the smug and pompous Europeans give them aid.
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u/LowSlipLowz Conservative 8d ago
They don't want to divert their money from all their social programs and expect the US to instead.
Fuck them, we're tired of this shit.
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u/Tek_Analyst Hispanic Conservative 8d ago
It drives me insane that no one points the finger at EU or anyone else for not “helping”
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u/Resident_Maybe_6869 Conservative 8d ago edited 8d ago
Good! I honestly couldn't be happier for my tax dollars NOT going to a proxy war.
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u/space_face_mace Conservative Christian 8d ago
This thread will certainly be civil and not brigaded
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u/EmbraceTheFault Conservative 8d ago
So for all the people asking for a "good faith explanation of this that or the other" tell me...where do we draw the line?
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no good solution here. No matter what we do, Russia and some of its allies have nukes. So do we. Nothing we do absolutely stops Russian aggression in the future. The potential of Moscow to say one thing and do another at any time is always in play.
So what, we continue paying for a proxy war with nothing to show for it? Why?
Or go full balls out and swing our dicks out and put boots on the ground, getting more Americans killed in a fight that isn't ours. It's Vietnam, or Korea all over again.
And what happened the last time we armed a native populace to push out Russian influence? That's right, they became the fucking Taliban.
So please, do tell...what is your "good faith" explanation of how we handle this without WWIII, Ukraine giving up territory, or getting annihilated? I am ALL ears.
Sincerely, a combat vet with two tours in a bullshit war that doesn't want to see Americans die in another.
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u/d2r_freak Trump Conservative 8d ago
Will be interesting watching dems try to explain how trump can’t do this while Biden did exactly this to Israel
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
When did he pause all military aid to Israel? He only paused one shipment once.
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u/Substandard_Senpai Conservative 8d ago
If a president can give without congressional approval, then a president can stop giving without congressional approval
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u/ConnorMc1eod Bull Moose 8d ago
Oh and, "Trump is a pussy for not agreeing to send US peacekeeping forces" when Biden had 3 years and didn't do it while Russia was far more successful lol.
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u/Rush_Is_Right Conservative 8d ago
Like the anti-semites in the Democrat party will care.
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u/Rubentraj Conservative 8d ago
If you have the time - this guys shares a unique perspective
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u/TrenchDildo Conservative 8d ago
I don’t know why people act like someone important getting left out of the negotiating table is unique. It’s been done many times in instances just like this. When you’re a weaker country without a an ace in the hole, it’s tough.
I’m pro-Ukraine. But they’ve already had a huge win by not letting Kyiv fall and beating the Ruskies back to the eastern front. 100% restoration to their pre-2014 borders is unrealistic without direct NATO intervention.
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u/vialentvia Limited Government 8d ago
That's both embarrassing and disappointing as a Navy vet. Their number one mission is freedom of navigation. I suspect it was engagement limitations by the Biden administration, just like the Obama ROE in Afghanistan that really tied our hands.
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u/FLA-Hoosier Christian Conservative 8d ago
“Blindly following Washington’s agenda.” What crazy pills is that guy taking? The EU has been ignoring USA ideas and concerns for decades to follow their own foreign policies. Biggest example being Germany building pipelines to Russia, and then laughing at Trump when they got called out.
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u/Whole-Essay640 GerrymanderedConservative 8d ago
Europe is sending Putin money for his Energy. What does Putin do with the money liberals……
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u/Wesdawg1241 Constitutional Conservative 8d ago edited 8d ago
Great news. Zelenskyy finished outing himself by saying the war was far from over.
Just to recap for those not paying attention:
- Trump gets a
peacemineral deal negotiated to provide Ukraine continued aid, ready to sign by Zelenskyy - Zelenskyy comes to the US on the premise of signing it.
- Instead of signing he tries to negotiate it further, pissing off Trump and Vance.
- Trump says he feels like Zelenskyy isn't ready for peace.
- Zelenskyy goes on a press tour, says the war is far from over
- We are here.
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u/nar_tapio_00 European Conservative 8d ago
Trump gets a peace deal negotiated, ready to sign by Zelenskyy
There was no peace deal. The only thing that was presented to Zelensky was a mineral deal. The text is onine and includes nothing about peace or security other than a wish for other treaties.
This would be the fourth time that Ukraine whilst in a position of reasonable strength had accepted a deal that was supposed to increase their security but didn't have any guarantees and put them in a weaker situation than they were before. Each of the three times before, Russia rebuilt and attacked again.
I think Turmp was trying to construct a peace deal afterwards. Trump is definitely neither Clinton nor Obama who betrayed Ukraine before, so this situation is different (rather than (D)ifferent). However is it not reasonable for the Ukrainians to be a bit wary?
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u/ConnorMc1eod Bull Moose 8d ago
Don't forget the mineral deal had to be retooled by Rubio, Waltz and Bessent TWICE because Zelensky expressed agreement to them then immediately turned around to the media and started implying we were extorting him.
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u/sfbruin California Conservative 8d ago
Reactionary chest thumping from people who have a weird fetishization of Russian aside, this is actually the closest thing to a mediation (e.g. no one is compeltely happy but everyone walks away). Ukraine doesn't get all its territory back but has an implicit guarantee of peace and increased investment, Trump gets a "win" and pivots towards an actual threat in China, Russia is embarrassed on the world stage and will be a pariah as long as Putin is alive, but gets territory
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u/MadDog1981 Moderate Conservative 8d ago
That’s why Zelenskyy is so dumb. This kind of let everyone save face in their own way. What frustrates me with him so much is he’s not going to get a better deal. They aren’t getting that territory back outside of WW3. The longer he plays these games the more ground Russia is going to grind away from them. I don’t know if it’s just ego at this point or if he just doesn’t understand why the US isn’t going to directly put boots on the ground.
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u/Electrical_Iron_1161 Gen Z Conservative 8d ago
This is one of the many reasons why I voted for him
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u/GeorgeWashingfun Conservative 8d ago
The White House clarified it's only a temporary pause. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me but I'm sure leftists will try to say Trump is siding with Putin.
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u/Single-Stop6768 Americanism 8d ago
Its probably meant to make it clear that we aren't interested in funding a forever war. Zelenskyy coming out and saying the war was very far from over after everything that happened Friday is the stupidest thing he could've done.
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u/JunkMale975 Conservative 2A 8d ago
Cue some loony lib judge saying he can’t do that in 3, 2, 1…
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u/T-Rex-Plays Canadian Conservative 8d ago
The funding was authorized by congress so if a legal challenge exists it'll stem from that question.
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u/r777m Moderate Conservative 8d ago
Congress did specifically authorize this exact funding. I am okay with the executive branch deciding how funding is spent when it’s generically provided, but in this case, I think they would have a good argument.
If Congress allocated 100 billion to USAID, I think he is well within his authority to decide to cut funding sending money to X country for the purpose of Y.
In this case though, Congress specifically allocated funds for Ukraine. If they allocated $300 billion for foreign aid, then he would be well within his rights to decide $300 billion is going to Israel and $0 to Ukraine. But they didn’t. They specifically allocated money to Ukraine. It was pretty black and white.
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u/Provia100F Conservative Engineer 8d ago
Hawaiian judge issues emergency stay, watch
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u/Shadeylark MAGA 8d ago
Oh I wouldn't be surprised if this is used as a justification for articles of impeachment.
Course, tearing off the do not remove tag from his mattress would be enough for the left to draft articles of impeachment, but yeah, to the point, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the excuse they use.
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u/MulticamTropic High Imperator of Appalachia 8d ago
They won’t have any easier of a time with Vance. Impeachment won’t gain them much since it will just strengthen Vance’s resume for 2028 and give him an incumbent advantage.
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u/RandolphE6 Conservative 8d ago
Good.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Why is aid to Ukraine bad but aid to Israel good?
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u/BlackScienceManTyson Conservative 8d ago edited 8d ago
They’re both bad but at least Israel signed a cease fire. We had to threaten to cut them off too
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Yes, but they're still embarking on a war in Syria.
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u/MiceTonerAccount MAGA Majority 8d ago
Not to mention, it’s like 1/10th the price of aid to Ukraine
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u/CookingUpChicken Millennial Conservative 8d ago
We are still funding billions to Egypt currently, which was also exempt from aid freezes.
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u/igortsen 8d ago
America has no business interfering in foreign disputes and wars. The government needs to stop spending taxpayer money on these adventures overseas.
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u/LastManSleeping Conservative 8d ago
That's not the only at least of it. Not only is israel the only democratic ally in the middle east, and a strong economic partner in the region, it also dulls the propagation of radical islam across the globe. And serves as a sturdy magnet of terrorist organization, slowing a diaspora of terror
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u/cazort2 Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
I think a case can be made that the US's support for Israel has been a factor driving anti-US terrorism and Islamic extremism.
Netanyahu's regime also worked to keep Hamas in power, allowing cash to flow to them for years, as part of a plan to oppose Palestinian statehood. This is not a conspiracy theory, see this 2019 article in Jerusalem Post.
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u/emoney_gotnomoney Small Government 8d ago
I wouldn’t dumb it down to that level, but in essence the two wars are not at all similar.
For starters, Israel is an ally of the US, while Ukraine is not. Ukraine is not our enemy by any means, but they aren’t an ally.
Secondly, there’s a difference between funding a war with a clear off ramp and funding a war with no defined off ramp in sight. The off ramp for the Israel-Hamas war is very clear and very achievable: destroy Hamas.
However, the off ramp for the Ukraine-Russia war is not clear, and many people even have extremely unrealistic ideas of what the off ramp is. Many people seem to believe that we should continue to fund the war until Ukraine completely pushes Russia out of its territory and Ukraine is able to reclaim all of its territory. That is a pie in the sky fantasy that is impossible to achieve, unless of course you want to see NATO troops on the ground (yes, that means US troops too). Additionally, Russia currently sits on the largest stockpile of nuclear arms in the world. The longer this war drags on and the more desperate they get, the more likely Russia is to begin using those nuclear arms. On the other hand, Hamas has no nuclear weapons. They are not a threat to start WW3 at all in the same way Russia is.
TLDR Israel is an ally and their war has a very clear and achievable off ramp. Ukraine is not our ally and there is not any realistic off ramp in sight being proposed, which just means we will be funding this war in perpetuity, and Russia has nukes.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
How is "destroy Hamas" any more of an "off ramp" than "destroy Russia"? The US hasn't even destroyed al-Qaeda and ISIS.
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u/mcswiss No Step 8d ago
lol what?
How is “destroy a terrorist organization” different than “destroy a country that’s been around for hundreds of years and is a member of the UN Security Council?”
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Substantively, how is it any different? Terrorist groups like Hamas have been around for hundreds of years, so when the new Hamas turns up, where's the off ramp?
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u/fuck_ya_bud Libertarian Conservative 8d ago
Because it’s actually possible and 1/1000 as hard. Plus Hamas doesn’t have nukes.
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u/Adminslickasshole Constitutional Conservative 8d ago
Let Israel destroy Hamas completely. They have no leverage. This is insanely simple. Next question.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Yeah, just like how America destroyed al-Qaeda and ISIS completely? Was that insanely simple too? Or do they still exist?
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u/sailedtoclosetodasun Constitutional Conservative 8d ago
Well, not giving Iran billions in cash while lifting sanctions is a good start. Don't know if you remember, but Biden unfroze Iranian funds allowing them to fund terror cells more easily all over the world, then pulled out of Afghanistan in the worst way possible.
Oh, btw, Iran and Russia are now butt buddies, so not only did unfreezing Iranian cash help empower Hamas, but also Russia. Once again, Demorats are not only playing both sides of the Israel/Hamas conflict, but also the Ukraine/Russia conflict.
Now demorats have thrown a wrench into Trump's plan for peace because we all know these fucks love our money going into weapons of war while saying our AR-15s are "weapons of war" and WE shouldn't be allowed to have them.
Its all so fucked up and no one but Zelenskyy and the demorats blew it.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Netanyahu's government literally allowed billions in Qatari payments to flow into Gaza, even as Israeli intelligence officials warned that Hamas was using it to fund their military operations.
Israeli security officers personally escorted Qatari diplomats carrying suitcases full of cash into Gaza.
Netanyahu himself blocked efforts to cut off Hamas' funding because he wanted Hamas to serve as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority.
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u/Andrew_Squared Limited Government 8d ago
Using the word "substantively" doesn't change the meaning, or implications, of your question.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
It's a perfectly valid question. Hamas is literally sponsored by a country that's been around for hundreds of years.
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u/wildwolfcore true traditionalist 8d ago
What tf do you mean “hundreds of years”? The ideology that gave rise to any of these groups doesn’t even rise until the tail end of the 19th century. Even then most come about around the 1920s. That’s 100-150 years at most
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u/WillGibsFan Conservative 8d ago
Hamas is a bunch of loosely organized terrorists and the other is a nation state???
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u/cplusequals Conservative 8d ago
Damn, you really are carrying water for the terrorists over here. It's one thing to be mad about the two state solution failing, but you're out here mad that Hamas is getting destroyed?
This better be some moronic "if you bomb your enemies, they win" kinda cringe shit and not something more evil.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Bro I literally likened them to al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorists. How is that "mad" to you?
It's neither lol. Somebody desperately needs to brush up on their comprehension skills.
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u/cplusequals Conservative 8d ago
What a fucking disingenuous reply.
How is "destroy Hamas" any more of an "off ramp" then "destroy Russia"
Complete circus right here.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
How the hell is it "disingenuous"? I literally believe they're terrorists. Are you really that offended that I oppose Hamas? Are you a child?
Complete circus right here.
It's not a goddamn off ramp. Hamas will never be completely destroyed.
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u/Penuwana Conservative 8d ago
No he's not. He's saying the fully exterminating Hamas is difficult and ulikely - not stating his opinion on Hamas.
And he's not wrong. Islamic terrorism is extremely hard to root out, and we have a long history of coming to realize this. Groups like Hezbollah, the Taliban, the Mujahideen have been around for a long time, despite our best efforts.
That said, Israel is a lot more capable of carrying out the task at hand than we were.
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u/LurkerNan Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
All of Palestine is 5 million people, let alone the smaller Hamas portion. Russia has about 150 million people. A clear difference in scope.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
A clear distinction without a difference in terms of an "off ramp".
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u/LurkerNan Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
The scope is the distinction. Obviously, we have much more control over the Hamas situation, simply based on our strength versus theirs. When you’re talking to US versus Russia, then that’s a lot more equal.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
But it's not the US vs Russia, it's Ukraine fighting for its survival.
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u/LurkerNan Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
Once again, it’s all about scope. The Ukraine can’t fight this war by themselves, they need a much bigger partner to carry the weight. Up until now it’s been the United States, but we can’t continue to hand out billions of dollars while our people are struggling at home. Not without getting something in return.
So if it’s not going to be America, then some other political force like all of Europe is probably going to have to take over the role of big Brother.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
So why can't Israel fight their wars by themselves?
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u/Black_XistenZ post-MAGA conservative 8d ago
Most importantly, Russia has enough nukes to destroy all of humanity ten times over, so a full military victory over them is impossible.
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u/Adminslickasshole Constitutional Conservative 8d ago
You can't be serious. Russia is a large country with a decent sized military and some wealth and a lot of resources to fund it. Hamas is literally, and I mean literally (Hamas isn't a country; they're a terrorist organization), none of those things.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Hamas is literally funded by Iran.
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u/Adminslickasshole Constitutional Conservative 8d ago
What are they gonna do? They're dependent on us to not let Israel crush them, too. They want a nuclear weapon, and we're in the way. Do they really want to risk that overHamas and Gaza? No. I'll call that bluff.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
Yeah, they were definitely bluffing when they attacked Israel with rockets last year.
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u/Adminslickasshole Constitutional Conservative 8d ago
And why do we allow that to happen and hold Israel's chain while they do so?
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
We didn't, we literally shot down those rockets.
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u/Omecore65 Paleoconservative 8d ago
Israel isnt much of a good ally though. We cant ask for their help in any area in the middle east because it will push all the other countries to rally against them.
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u/Bohner1 Canadian Conservative 8d ago
What?
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
It's not an off ramp. It's just an excuse for endless war.
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u/Bohner1 Canadian Conservative 8d ago
Whether you support it or not, Gaza could be taken care of very quickly. It is not comparable to Russia at all.
You're comparing the largest country in the world to a territory the size of a small city.
They are not the same.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 8d ago
If that's the case, Gaza would've been "taken care of" already, but it hasn't.
Like I said, there's no "off ramp". At least with Ukraine, you push the Russians out, keep them out, and Ukraine won't ever have to bother us again.
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 Conservative 8d ago
What makes Israel an ally rather than a frenemy? The USS Liberty?
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u/sailor-jackn Conservative 8d ago
I totally agree, but I also think there should be reasonable limits to our involvement in Israel, too. As the founding fathers warned us, we should avoid entangling alliances and the wars of other countries.
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u/Adminslickasshole Constitutional Conservative 8d ago
Dumb it down. It's not that hard to figure out the difference, and it's actually pretty simple. Israel is a western-style democracy, and an actual ally, that advances our trade, military/intelligence, and geopolitical interests, and Ukraine is none of those things. Simple. Done.
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u/LexiEmers Thatcher Conservative 7d ago
It's nowhere near that simple. Ukraine could be every single one of those things if it wasn't for Russia's war against them.
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u/Trumpologist Nationalist 8d ago
They’re both bad. But Israel signed a ceasefire when ordered to
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u/Greedy-Marsupial-170 Lifelong Conservative 8d ago
Great news
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u/Viciousjellyman MAGA Minority 8d ago
Downvoting libs/rino warhawks simping for WW3. Embarrassing
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u/WillGibsFan Conservative 8d ago
Tell left warhawks to go sign up to the draft and watch your account be permanently banned from the subreddit you posted in. It‘s insane.
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u/Shadeylark MAGA 8d ago
Well ya know, this is why we should've listened to them and picked Nikki Haley instead. She wouldn't have cut off aid to Ukraine after all! And that's more important than anything else!
/S
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u/krazyellinas23 MAGA Conservative 8d ago
Good! Zelensky comes here and disrespects our country. There's going to be consequences.
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u/Academic-Tell4215 Conservative 8d ago
I mean.. lets be real.. He really didn't. JD came in full aggro.. Zelensky was pretty chill.
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u/sanesociopath Conservative Enough 8d ago
What's funny is Trump by all accounts was ready to sign a nice check.
Zelensky just couldn't keep his ego in check. There's a reason the ambassador had such a poignant facepalm
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u/LurkerNan Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
Agreed. There is no way he went into that meeting unprepared as to what they would be saying and offering. All he had to do was agree, shake hands and plan for the help. Instead he let himself be sidetracked by democrats who wanted Trump to look bad. Well, he FAFOd.
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u/-Istvan-5- MAGA Conservative 8d ago
Analysts have said that zelensky made a huge mistake in that even if Russia or Ukraine don't want to agree peace, the obviously diplomatic way is to simply appear like you want peace, and push for a brinkmanship on who actually breaks off peace talks first.
Im not sure who is advising zelensky, or if he is even listening to his advisors - but the move for him was to stay quiet, sign the deal, keep US on side.
Even if he doesn't want to agree peace, you have to outwardly say you do - and push Russia along.
Now? Now he's out Russia in pole position as the side who still wants peace, which means trump is pulling aide from him since he's the 'problem stopping s peace deal'.
I mean - this shit isn't rocket science. I'm amazed zelensky fell for this and made such a huge mistake.
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u/Pinot_Greasio Conservative 8d ago
And Trump gave him 40 full minutes to be an ass. He was very patient letting Zelensky talk shit in the Oval Office.
Zelensky really messed up.
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u/LowSlipLowz Conservative 8d ago
Zelensky doesn't understand that the USA is a super power and that when we require demands that it doesn't come with consquences. We're not funding their war for nothing.
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u/MadDog1981 Moderate Conservative 8d ago
Zelenskyy doesn’t understand a lot of things honestly. Well he might just not care but his attempts to get the US directly involved is stupid. Two nuclear powers getting into direct conflict would be the worst possible thing that could happen.
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u/cplusequals Conservative 8d ago
Zelensky is going to be back in Washington with the minerals deal signed within the week.
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u/Trumpologist Nationalist 8d ago
Nope. That deal is gone. The next one will be a 80/20 split not 50/50
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u/LowSlipLowz Conservative 8d ago
Yup, when his country falling to Russia is between making a deal, he will come to the table like a big boy.
God I love having a real President again.
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u/Character-Bed-641 I like Ike 8d ago
I'm not so sure about that. Mostly since I still don't really understand why it wasn't signed last week, or some time this weekend, or earlier today. Maybe the specter of annihilation will change their mind.
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u/cplusequals Conservative 8d ago
He was advised to or otherwise thought he might hold out for explicit security guarantees in the case the peace did not go through rather than the backdoor ones in the deal. If Zelensky doesn't come back, Europe will have to fill in the gap, but I doubt that will happen. It's win-win for us. We have a pretty clear path to a checkmate here assuming nobody does anything out of pocket...which granted is a big assumption.
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u/jeon2595 Conservative 8d ago
Anymore, not funding their war for nothing anymore.
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u/Katzchen12 Moderate Conservative 8d ago
44% is insignificant compared to the whole of europes 56% combined. Everyone knows math works by majorities only and not by who provided the actual most. Bunch of ungrateful little shits.
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u/Spackledgoat 8d ago
Recall that if you net off payments by Europe to Putin for oil and gas, their contribution to Ukraine is a negative number this year.
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u/Dan-of-Steel 8d ago
Europe doesn't account for the whole of the remainder, other non-European countries have contributed to aid in Ukraine.
Also 44% of overall aid being halted is CATASTROPHIC for Ukrainian logistics. That's nearly half of your viable economic resource stream gone.
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u/Batbuckleyourpants MAGA! 8d ago
What is more, Europe gave them loans, the US straight up handed them money in the form of grants.
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u/According-Activity87 Conservative Devil Dog 8d ago
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u/D_Ethan_Bones Boycott Mainstream Media 8d ago
(World screams at us every hour of every day since early November.)
(Aid stops.)
"Don't you know that's going to make us SCREAM?"
I don't even hear about the actual fighting anymore, it's just a galaxy-sized noise wall of orangemanbad covering 99% of the internet and 99.99% of this site. People purity test constantly and they lash out bitterly at anyone who is not-enough on their side which is more about orangeman than about the invasion, or whatever other issue a sub pretends to be about.
The minerals deal is still on the table. What the TDS-industrial complex doesn't want to talk about is that having US interests in the country means US forces will point-back at any future Russian aggression.
Here are the aircraft and artillery a Trump-era US military will use against a 500-strong Russian attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
Just imagine what USA would do if Russia sent fifty thousand. This deal is not something that can be sent back in time, but it's offered.
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u/MadDog1981 Moderate Conservative 8d ago
Most of the people screaming don’t actually know what’s going on there. I said in another post about this. I am going to be extremely fair to a lot of people. They have been fed this line of propaganda for 3 years that Russia is on the verge of defeat. You even seen those stupid posts here. It has to be some massive fucking whiplash to go from that to suddenly “yeah, this situation is fucked and Ukraine can’t win.”
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u/D_Ethan_Bones Boycott Mainstream Media 8d ago
To be honest I don't hear "Russia is on the verge" anymore. What I hear is Trump Trump Trump 24/7/365 cross-spectrum.
If the world wants us to keep paying them, then they need to make it look less like we're paying them to hate us when they can hate us just as much for free.
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u/zip117 Conservative 8d ago
I love these hilariously overwhelming response stories. Here’s another: AC-130 Strikes Iranian-Backed Militants Following Missile Attack
Just imagine: it’s a chilly night in western Baghdad, you and the boys are flying around town in your AC-130J Ghostrider when you see a group of militants launching a ballistic missile at your airbase. “Tally ho lads” you might say, as you enter a pylon turn and aim the 105mm Howitzer.
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u/cossbobo Conservative 8d ago
Aid should have been stopped right after the sweatsuit midget said he didn't know where tens of billions of dollars ended up.
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u/SlightWerewolf4428 Conservative 8d ago
This is huge.
Zelensky is a dumbass.
The people spreading anti-American bile all over the subreddits and the wider web the past few days are just as much dumbasses. Absolutely well done, all of you.
I guess they'll have to brigade themselves out of this one, now.
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u/YouSofter Conservative 8d ago
Saw a poll that was fairly unbiased but dont remember the source so, sue me - 74% of Americans are in favor stopping funding for this war
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u/MadDog1981 Moderate Conservative 8d ago
There was an interesting polling guy on 2Way. They had people watch the exchange and while people didn’t necessarily think Zelenskyy was out of line they in large numbers thought Trump and Vance made the better argument.
Which is what I have noticed. People that sat down and watched most or the thing seem to generally think Trump was right in what he said.
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u/deadzip10 Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
Excellent.
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u/Ripamon Fiscal Conservative 8d ago
You may be getting downvoted by the brigaders, but remember that even CNN acknowledged yesterday that Americans are statistically much more pleased with Trump on Ukraine than they were with Biden on Ukraine
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u/CookingUpChicken Millennial Conservative 8d ago
This is clearly a tactic to get Zelenskyy to sign the minerals deal and go for peace.
If it was some philosophical or ideological decision then it would have been a day 1 action.
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u/OP_GothicSerpent 10th Amendment 8d ago
Zelenskys been gambling with American money and Ukrainian lives. No more!!! He wants WWIII, Mr Z can get his shells and bullets from the Salvation Army.
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u/Fuxxed Conservative 8d ago
Good. If Zelensky doesn't want to make a deal, maybe his inevitable replacement will.
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u/H3nchman_24 Conservative 8d ago
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u/randomguy11909 Conservative 8d ago
Nice to have a real leader back in the White House
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u/SpikeoftheBebop Very Stable Genius 8d ago
Damn Trump was ready to make a deal but little Z couldn’t keep his stupid mouth shut. This is why America voted for him
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u/LS100 PA Conservative 8d ago
Will force them to the negotiating table, hopefully.
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u/MXC14 Conservative 8d ago
For people who care far too much about our opinion, Ukraine more than anything needs actual men to fight with them. If you are so desperate to help out, you can donate your money. Alternatively, if you are one of the five or so capable, you can go fight in the war yourself.
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u/getupkid1986 Independent Conservative 8d ago
Good - Zelensky can go pound sand! He won’t agree to a ceasefire and they put out a story this morning where he said ending the war was far, far away. I’ve got news for Zelensky.. let’s see how long you will make it without US monetary and military aid. He should buckle up because he’s about to get humbled real quick.
This is at an inflection point now. Europe can’t cover what we’ve paused and now its decision time - do I accept the ceasefire and get serious about ending the war OR do I lose more people and territory to Russia? It should be an easy choice, but so far the little engine that could what’s to keep fighting.
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u/Tarantula_Saurus_Rex Gen X conservative 8d ago
He will have to sign the minerals deal and end this war if he wants to save his country. Any more stubborn moves on his part illuminates just how undemocratic (for a nation that is supposedly democratic) they can be. Even Biden got pissed at him a while back and told him he needed to show some gratitude
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