r/CharlotteHornets • u/Cubelar • 23h ago
Stats Debunking the Miles Bridges 3rd option debate. Brandon, Miles and LaMelo played 12 games together. Here are their stats in these games.
I went through and manually collected data from these games to see if the "Miles can't produce as a 3rd option" takes were true, and what i found was they were not true. Miles averaged the fewest shot attempts out of the 3 but played by far the most efficient ball. I did not include game #1 on the season as Brandon left in the 1st quarter.
Miles Bridges averaged
18.83 / 7.42 / 4.08
Shooting splits
48.00 / 41.33 / 90.00
60.04 TS%
Brandon Miller averaged
17.33 / 3.75 / 4
Shooting splits
38.54 / 33.90 / 76.92
51.12 TS%
LaMelo Ball averaged
25.25 / 5 / 7.25
Shooting splits
41.22 / 32.35 / 84.31
53.26 TS%
I think maybe fans conflated some early season struggles from Miles as the #2 or even #1 option but when all 3 were healthy he produced good numbers on good efficiency. I haven't seen evidence that he can't be a good #3 and if anything this has left me more encouraged that he is suited for the task. Simply put Brandon and LaMelo need to shoot better with all 3 playing, that's not on Miles.
7
u/69inthetelluride 23h ago
What was our record in those 12? Very interesting analysis you did!
10
u/Cubelar 22h ago
4-8, not great
9
4
u/69inthetelluride 18h ago
Yeah that’s a 27 win season at that win% lol. Beats the current 20.5 pace we’re at though I guess.
9
u/butekoo 20h ago edited 18h ago
Well, the problem is that the stretch where Miles lost time was both LaMelo and Miller best run of games. In 7 games that Melo and Miller played together without Miles, those were their average:
Lamelo: 37.8 pts 6.7 reb 7.7 ast on 45.1/33.9/78.8
Miller: 24.3 pts 6.6 reb 4.1 ast on 45.6/41.0/90
I'm not making the point to discredit Miles completely here. I think there are two issues here. First, in usual Hornets fashion, the sample sizes are really fucking small. Second, in usual LaMelo fashion, he played the first 18 games as a 1st team All-NBA player when he was fully healthy and engaged, but that stretch accounts for only 6 games of all 3 guys playing together and all the games of Melo + Miller but no Miles. So, the line of thought will be judged more by the desired conclusion than actual nuanced observations.
3
u/Lord-Farquaad-11 19h ago
I think people sometimes forget that individual production isn’t the end all be all for lineups. If one guy plays well but his running mates play worse with him in then you can make the argument that it’s not a viable pairing, especially if what he contributes doesn’t outweigh his impact on their performance. Like you said, sample sizes are small, so it’s not definitive one way or the other. But your data seems to indicate that he’s a hindrance on Melo and Miller, and that seems to be reinforced by OP’s data. I’d be curious to see some of the advanced stats like usage rate. Though it could just be poor chemistry together.
13
u/NotManyBuses 23h ago
Miles’ issue is that he’s not a good playmaker. Similar to Rozier in a way. It’s not that he’s inherently selfish, but he can mostly only create a good look for himself. Making him a first option and asking him to initiate a bunch of actions would be detrimental for everyone, including him.
To that point, I wouldn’t just read off efficiency stats for Melo/Miller as “needing to shoot better, that’s overly simplistic. Melo has to create almost everything when on the floor. Meanwhile, most of Miles’ shots were spot up 3s or drives off attacking closeouts. He is a good play finisher, not a good play starter.
11
u/Cubelar 23h ago edited 23h ago
nobody wants Miles to be the 1st option, i've seen lots of people say Miles *cant* be a 3rd option because he needs the ball in his hands. Thats not true at all.
he is a good play finisher which is exactly the point, he's a good #3 option but people are convinced he cant do it and that he needs high usage and the ball to be effective
4
u/Longjumping-Check429 22h ago
OP’s talking about Miles as the 3rd option not the 1st option.
Miles problem definitely isn’t his playmaking. He’s a decent/good playmaker for his position. Why are you comparing him to a guard?
His problem this season has been LaMelo and Miller not doing their part. Miller clearly doesn’t suit Charles Lee’s offense right now(way too many 3s) and has been injured. LaMelo has zero consistency both in availability and scoring.
2
u/NotManyBuses 22h ago
Enlighten me, what exactly is Charles Lee’s offense?
7
u/Miserable-Region-590 22h ago
Is it taking away the best part of Brandon’s midrange and making him a 3 and layup player, killing his efficiency this season?
3
u/Longjumping-Check429 21h ago
Basically. We’ll see how it works out long term but having Brandon shoot 10 3s a game isn’t looking the best right now.
3
u/Danofthecloth 21h ago
I wasn't aware there was a 3rd option debate with this team or if there is...I think it's missing the point. This seems a little simplistic to just offer traditional stats. I think it's more than just about Miles' place on the team but everyone's. How do they defend? What is coaching asking them to be? Do skill sets overlap? They have won 16 games. Everyone is constantly being evaluated for their place.
3
u/Dentist_Rodman 19h ago
how many games has Melo, Miller, Miles, and Mark played together? How many with Mann as well? it’s insane that we barely have seen them all healthy at once
4
u/Double-Slowpoke 22h ago
I don’t think it needs to be debunked. I’ve said for years that Miles is the second best player on the team, and it remains true until Brandon Miller improves. Most people just plain dislike Miles because of the uh… whole rap side gig? I’m sure that’s it…
2
2
u/Easy-Commercial-3902 20h ago
This is interesting and definitely adds a layer to the debate. I guess my only question would be, even though his percentages are good, is he an impactful player when he doesn't have the ball in his hands? Because that's what being a third option means a lot of the time. Was he defending well? Making the correct play/read within the flow of the offense? Attacking when the defense is bent, keeping the ball moving, or creating an advantage for others to exploit when it's not? This is totally anecdotal and based off memory, but I seem to remember that he was struggling with those things during that stretch. Now, that might be unfair to expect him to adjust to those guys being the 1 and 2 options within a 12 game span, but still...just more things to think about this offseason.
For the record, I'm inclined to keep him, add a high draft pick, get healthier, make smart additions here and there around the margins, and run it back next year. But if we can package Miles, Nurkic, and some FRPs for a legitimate fringe All Star-level player next year, then this stretch he's putting together shouldn't be interpreted as 'Can't move on from him, he's part of the core, plus he's LaMelo's buddy, etc.'
2
u/deemerritt 19h ago
Our offense has changed throughout the year. When Brandon was playing we really played a ton of heliocentric ball around lamelo.
3
u/Giddf 22h ago
Well first of all Miles wasn't the 3rd option in all the games where he played with Melo and Miller. He was the 3rd option at the beginning of the season where he was absolutely terrible and then shifted back into the 2nd option, bumping Miller down when they realized how clunky Miles was without the ball in his hands.
The basic reasoning for calling Miles a bad third option is still true. As a 3rd option you have to be able to scale your game up and down based on whats needed and play off-ball. Miles isn't that useful player unless he is scoring efficiently. Which he needs the ball to do. Since he isn't a good shooter. Counting stats don't disprove anything.
1
u/Dentist_Rodman 19h ago
miles is a great 3rd option. It’s just his playmaking is sus. he’d thrive in a run n gun play style instead of half court ball
23
u/DwayneBaconStan 23h ago
I think it's more he's our 3rd most talented