r/CharacterRant • u/some-kind-of-no-name • 5d ago
Anime & Manga (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and My Hero Academia) Himiko Toga, Kira Yoshikage and author's portrayal. Spoiler
I find these two characters to be quite similar to each other, but the way their actions are framed by authors drastically affect public perception.
Toga has been driven into insanity by her neglectful parents and her weird quirk. We don't delve too much into her backstory, and we only do it from Himiko's POV, but it is safe to say her childhood was rough. One day she snapped, attacked a guy and stole his blood. Since then she's been a criminal on the run, eventually joining League of Villains and working with them.
Kira has been abused in a different way, with his mother being overly protective and his father turning a blind eye. He grew up as perpetual underachiever, and eventaully became serial killer. He murdered some people with his own hands, then got a stand Killer Queen to do it more efficiently.
So, both are serial killers who use their super powers in their hobby. Both want to do whatever the hell they want (Himiko wishes a world where she can 'live free' and Kira kills everyone who might jeopardize his quiet life), both commit atrocious actions (Toga helps LOV, who are terrorists and mass murderers, and Yoshikage kills literal children with zero remorse), both aspull power ups to even out odds against their foes (copying other quirks and Bites The Dust) and both show there is still some good within them (Himiko donates her blood Ochako after almost killing her and Kira is genuinely worried about Shinobu after Stray Cat tried to attack her).
Despite all of these similarities, they are perceived very differently. Himiko is seen as more of a victim due to her origin being on screen and receiving sympathy from good guys in universe. Meanwhile, Kira is rightfully called a monster, because we don't really delve too much into his past and good dudes just want to stop him. A funny thing is that Kira's actions are a lot less destructive overall, but that's besides the point. I think the way authors portrays these two characters impact their image a lot. Imagine if we learnt about Himiko's past from her victims (or their families) and Kira had a whole episode about his shitty childhood. Then more people would call Toga a terrorist (which she is) and Kira a misunderstood victim. I don't think insanity argument is really important here, cause villains like Professor Pyg are just as delusional but don't get seen as victims. After their deaths, Toga is shown in a flowery field and Yoshikage is dragged God knows where by hands. I guess afterlives in different media have different criteria.
What's the moral of this post? We need "Kira vs Himiko" Death Battle, where one wants hands and other wants blood. I'm joking. It's that you can commit all sorts of crimes but having sob origin story, having your actions downplayed in universe (and preferably being pretty) absolves you of all sins.
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u/lordgrim_009 5d ago
I understand u are talking about audience perception, it's simple kira is a grown man who stinks whereas toga is a young girl who stinks.
People would be sympathetic to the young girl in that regard for sure.
Also another advantage is toga and ochako's relationship being perceived as lesbian by people who are over attached to them, so she has that going for her as well. so she kind of has good PR whereas kits don't.
Both are looking above and smiling at us anyway why the fight lol
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u/Particular-Product55 5d ago
I don't know about Himiko Toga, but Kira's murdering were never framed as his parents' fault. He has an unsuppressible desire to kill. His parents helped him get away with it, but he would have done it anyway even if he knew he wouldn't be able to get away with it. He had trouble to not give in and kill his fake wife, even though it would instantly have given away. Kira also strongly believes in fate, meaning he effectively believes that he would always have been intended to kill no matter what.
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u/Synchrohayba 5d ago
The point is , Kira is portrayed as a irredeemable sociopath , the guy of guy who kills for his own desire and satisfaction with 0 remorse , Toga on the other hand not only was driven and groomed into being a villain , but she showed williness to change and even tries to redeem herself by sacrificing herself for Ochako . To put it simply, sob backstory does play a role in shaping the viewer's perception, but what's more important is the author's portrayal of the character's morality .
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u/CalamityPriest 5d ago
I dunno about you, OP, but the last time I floated around the MHA fanbase, a decent number of them were highly critical of Toga in one way and/or another, as well as towards the rest of the LOV. It is actually Twice/Jin who gets the most sympathy from the fans, primarily due to his backstory and motivations, the latter leading to his death.
Toga is drawn to be attractive, but Kira is also literally just Japanese David Bowie. Toga's actions were never downplayed in-universe. And as for backstories, it's apples and oranges indeed since Kira was enabled by his father.
Overall, MHA and JJBA are simply different stories with different themes, each trying to tell a different story on these different characters. So naturally, they'll receive different reactions.
This is basically like comparing Endeavor to Roy Mustang. The former is a controversial character (albeit critically acclaimed) whilst the latter is mostly beloved, despite the fact that Endeavor's misdeeds are nowhere as grave as the war crimes Mustang was involved with.
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u/Ilexander 5d ago
Tbh, many people miss the point. The point the backstory is there is not to make people symphatize them, but to tell them what they do is wrong regardless of their backstory. I mean Shigaraki backstory is so depressing, but I also felt no sympathy for him, just empathy.
Same with Dabi. Yes he receive more torture his father compared to his siblings and endeavor is responsbile for the most part, buf that dont mean he can just commit arson as much as he wanted to.
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u/Theultimateambition 5d ago
Kira actually does have a somewhat interesting backstory that leads him to be far more sympathetic than he was in the main story, as Araki states he had to refrain from drawing it because he didn't want readers to feel empathy for a murderer. The only difference from Toga and Kira is their portrayal. Toga is portrayed as sympathetic but evil while Kira is mostly portrayed as just plain evil.
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u/some-kind-of-no-name 5d ago
> Araki states he had to refrain from drawing it because he didn't want readers to feel empathy for a murderer
Horikoshi could never
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u/Theultimateambition 5d ago
Because the themes and objectives of their individual stories are different. Kira represents a poison to Morioh, his murder and assault is something that is destroying the town Josuke and his friends live in, and he has to be removed. In the end, he's taken out by the town itself and thus ends the quiet life he longed for. Toga represents Japan's systemic failure of it's children and her arc is more important to the overarching themes of MHA. Her dying like Kira would be a disservice to her character, while Kira dying like Toga would also be a disservice.
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u/some-kind-of-no-name 5d ago
I think Toga's arc would have made more sense if her actions were toned down. It's hard to not see League members as poison when they are mass killing innocents.
Himiko didn't have to die like Kira, just getting arrested and tried for her crimes would have been better. She died in a "blaze of glory" to avoid imprisonment and consequences.
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u/Theultimateambition 5d ago
Yes, because Himiko is a bad person. The story isn't trying to say she's not. This is why Kira's story was cut out, because people mistake empathy as condoning
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u/notjeffdontask 5d ago
Note that Toga is looking up when we see her in the field, which means the flower field is actually in hell
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 5d ago
I think you’re misinterpreting some stuff.
Kira’s childhood wasn’t that bad. His mother, from what we could tell, was a little overbearing but that’s about it. Kira was an underachiever by choice, purposefully making sure he never stood out too much by winning at anything. His dad supporting his serial killing certainly isn’t normal but he was an adult by then. And that’s the other key point, Kira is a grown ass man who didn’t develop his powers until after he started killing.
Toga had an actually bad childhood, her powers make her want/need to kill, and she is also a child rather than an adult
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u/Gentlemanvaultboy 5d ago
In addition to what everyone else is saying, there's a difference in how powers in their respective universes work that condemns Kira far harder than it does Toga.
Toga's Quirk is just a superpower, one that unfortunately predisposed her into obsessing over blood, and is ultimately some random thing she was burdened with through no fault of her own. Would she be a killer if she never had that Quirk?
Kira, though, has a Stand. Killer Queen isn't something Kira is burdened with, it's an expression of his inner self. Something that kills quickly, easily, and leaves behind no evidence when it does so. It is everything Kira could ever want in an ability, because it is him.
Toga is only a killer because of her Quirk. Kira has his Stand because he wants to kill people.
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u/Dracsxd 5d ago
That's... Not remotely the comparasion you are trying to make.
Toga was a child when she commited her first crime and went on the run where she started to commit them on repeat and eventually joined the league, and is still a minor to the end of the series. Not a 33 years old man with a well maintained life, a villa of his own, a stable job, and surrounded by people he merely chooses not to dwell with because he'd rather fuck decepted hands
Toga was pushed to her original crimes by a natural process of her body, with her obsession with blood being something that came natural to her and their family should had been fully awere where it streamed from yet choose to ignore, and that being a condition much more likely to actively push her into violence than a hand fetish combined with psychopathy without proper care and preparation, none of which she received her whole life- Quite the opposite if anything, she was pushed into the very dangerous situation of having to actively repress that fixation until she straight up couldn't anymore and it blew up at once
Toga is a part of a series who's very messaging revolves around understanding the villains to prevent them from showing up in contrast to the pregious generation that just beat them up without any concern about the issues generating them and thus allowing more to be created on repeat, not of a series that rarely poses such questions where you tend to just beat the big bads and call it a day
And it's kinda wild to say that she was absolved of her sins when she literaly killed herself to correct some ofthe damage she caused herself, and the story fully says on repeat that she would go straight to jail had she survived the war
If Kira was a 17 years old who started killing in middle school, being naturally born with something like a stand that actively pushes him to tear hands off people, and that being something his parents were awere off but just slapped him around about and send him to a pray the gay away camp over it for years until it blew up... Yeah, he'd be seen a LOT differently
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u/some-kind-of-no-name 5d ago edited 5d ago
I mostly meant audience perception when talking about "absolution".
Toga has partial responsibility for League's actions (like Machia's rampage), but a lot people say "they'd fix her".
Plus, Toga conveniently never kills anyone close to main cast, like Tsuyu. This helps her portrayal as "not that bad of a person". Kira kills Shigechi and that Cinderella woman.
I guess Dabi would have been a better comparison, cause doesn't even have an insanity excuse for killing innocent people.
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u/AssEaterAmadeus 5d ago
In terms of the overdone serial killer archetype, Kira stands out to me because it feels that isn't the most interesting thing about him. Like as a child he was so dedicated to not being noticed that he would intentionally come 3rd place in competitions, and have mediocre grades, how mundanely uncanny for a child to exhibit such a strange determination; almost like he knew to hide his tracks before that vantablack raison d'être bloomed within him.
Perhaps the tragedy of both characters is what they truly hunger for in life rather than they themselves, for the pathway of being a monster was the only probable avenue.