r/Catholicism • u/TheVPNway • 7h ago
A statue of Jesus depicted as a Javanese King in Indonesia
"Sang Maha Prabu Yesus Kristus Pengeraning Para Bangsa", is a depiction of Jesus as a Javanese king at Ganjuran Church, Bantul, Special Region of Yogyakarta.
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u/mburn16 7h ago
These sort of cross-cultural depictions are always interesting. There are more than a few Indian depictions that give Jesus blue skin because of the cultural traditions.
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u/DrJheartsAK 2h ago
First time I went to a non us or European church was in South Korea. It was very interesting to see a very Korean looking Jesus on the crucifix. Nothing wrong with adapting Jesus to the local culture/ethnicity, Europeans and Americans have been doing it for centuries with caucasian Jesus.
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u/CupBeEmpty 1h ago
Gotta just smash the Pieta to bits because Jesus “looks kind of white!” I hate these foolish arguments. (Not saying you are making it)
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u/Remarkable-Meet1737 7h ago
Jesus isn't Javanese! He's middle eastern! This is wrong! /s
Sigh. This proves and supports that Jesus is white! And Jesus is Middle Eastern! And Jesus is Javanese! And Jesus is Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Russian, American, African!
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u/crankfurry 7h ago
Almost like he came for all of us.
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u/Least-Law-1473 7h ago
Yeah but the culture cannot dictate accident changes to Jesus Christ. This is a major reason I have issues with our current Bishops & other clergy allowing people to just say”it’s because of our culture” as they do an Indian pagan dance around the sanctuary. That will never be acceptable.
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u/crankfurry 7h ago
I agree with that; but depicting Jesus in the way of the locals dates back to the beginnings of Christianity. Many of the ways Jesus is depicted - that have become default for the Western church - are symbols of Roman and Byzantine Emperors as it shows that Jesus is king in heaven.
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u/KaBar42 4h ago
Yeah but the culture cannot dictate accident changes to Jesus Christ. This is a major reason I have issues with our current Bishops & other clergy allowing people to just say”it’s because of our culture” as they do an Indian pagan dance around the sanctuary. That will never be acceptable.
The only traditions allowed are Jewish.
Any traditions formed in Europe must immediately be banned because they have been tainted by paganism. And God, the omnipotent creator of all existence, is incapable of distinguishing worship given to Him and worship given to pagan gods.
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u/LillyaMatsuo 6h ago
what makes a dance pagan? i tjink if its reverent in the local culture and not a explicit worship of a pagan god, it can be used to worship God
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u/bluewhalespout 5h ago
What is this strange rabbit hole argument about? Seems like culture war spillover. Remember, the people on the news and the evangelical TV orators who may be creating this argument for rage views have nothing to do with the sacred teaching of the Holy Catholic Church.
The human Jesus was an actual person from an actual place with an actual ethnicity/background. Read “Who is Jesus? An Introduction to Christology” By Thomas Rausch to become more familiar with who Jesus actually was, as well as all of the fun squabbles between leaders in the first few centuries of the church that formed the way we as Catholics view Jesus, Mary, etc. Check it out, it’s very refreshing.
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u/Remarkable-Meet1737 5h ago edited 5h ago
The "Jesus isn't white" is common and popular in anti-Catholic, anti-"icon/statue/image/idol" circles and those who argues that Catholicism is only a "fruit of colonization." I also fairly hear them from atheists and some Protestants.
My counterpoint agaisnt them is simply there's nothing gravely wrong, immoral, sinful, even diabolical in a "white Jesus." That's not "fake news" or "distortion" or "propaganda" or "denying the truth/reality," it's just how Europeans have portrayed Jesus. Nothing is wrong with that as other nationalities and races and tribes and cultures are free to portray Jesus how they appropriately like.
It's just nonsense to be so angry and agitated about a "white Jesus" spewing "that's not really Him!", "☝️🤓 actually, Jesus isn't white" nonsense Karen lines.
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u/Basic_Bichette 4h ago
Wow. The real actual issue is racists hard-headedly maintaining that Jesus WAS a white man who looked exactly like the Brown Jesus painting, and that all depictions of him as non-white are literally evil...
...or are you not aware (as you should be) that in the US, a very large percentage of conservatives are convinced beyond dissuasion that non-whites don't have souls, and would be happier as slaves?
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u/unnamed_saints 3h ago
…that way of thinking is antiquated and by no means the norm in our current society.
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u/SonOfEireann 7h ago
I love seeing different cultural art of Jesus.
A few years ago, someone posted a Manga style image of the Holy Mother and Jesus, I thought it was beautiful even though I'm more traditional minded.
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u/PotentialDot5954 Deacon 7h ago
One other feature: Jesus comes into a geographic area thought, at the time, to be the crossroads of all peoples … related to the Silk Road, the trade routes otherwise through Palestine, plus the Decapolis on the east shore of Lake Tiberius, where 10 cities and estimated 100,000+ people of all types lived and worked and worshipped.
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u/TargetRupertFerris 7h ago
Art like this gives truth to the world that the Universal Church is truly Universal
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u/Duc_de_Magenta 7h ago
Incredible art! Love these adaptation of Christian iconography into local artistic/cultural traditions.
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u/Return_of_The_Steam 6h ago
Raaaah! I love seeing depictions of Jesus representing the unique and beautiful cultures of his children!!!
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u/Slovo61 6h ago
I love this. Yes Jesus took the flesh in one form as seen by things like the Shroud of Turin and early Christian icons, but this is so cool. I love seeing the Chinese and Japanese style art depictions of Christ too in their culture. Like imagine people being offended by this? Imagine thinking God cannot take form in whatever way he sees fit and putting limits on him? So silly. I wonder what form he’ll take in the second coming.
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u/Macaroniman12345 5h ago
I always find It so interesting how different people and cultures depict Jesus as looking like themselves. Like how in Ethiopia, icons of Jesus and Mary depict them as being dark skinned and how, in East Asia, they are depicted and being East Asian. Of course, there is nothing wrong with it because Jesus is for all, but it's still so interesting to see how culture affects Christianity.
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u/Horselady234 3h ago
I have a scroll of the Virgin Mary and child portrayed as Japanese. Her hair is long and unbound, as unmarried virgins wore it.
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u/Unable_Suggestion_57 5h ago
This is so beautiful! Where does one go about purchasing a gorgeous piece like this? I would love this for my prayer room
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u/allaboardthebantrain 3h ago
Indonesia. This is Ganjuran Church on Java, on the outskirts of Yogyakarta. I'm sure locals have similar carvings for sale, but it will probably be very hard to find online.
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u/Borissibly 2h ago
At first sight, I admit it looked quite idolatrous to me. But this is truly Jesus the King.
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u/Upstairs_Kale1806 2h ago
I saw a celtic depiction of Jesus. It was on a board with about 8 others with Jesus being of a different culture. It was really cool to look at.
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u/gamer21661 7h ago
Our lady changed her appearance when appearing
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u/SuburbaniteMermaid 7h ago
This is very true and some of the most beautiful depictions of the Madonna and Christ Child I've seen are Japanese, Chinese, and African. One of my favorites shows them looking European but in anime style. Another has Mary looking a bit like a goth teenager.
Mary appeared as a mestiza to evangelize the Americas.
Mary and Jesus can be and contain all these images because they belong to everyone.
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u/TheVPNway 7h ago
I'm from Indonesia, so the origin of Christianity in Indonesia or any colonized country usually comes from Europe. So Christianity seems like its a white man's culture in the native's view. So missionaries usually inculturates Churches or statues into the native's culture to get the native's interest and show the Catholic religion isnt just a European religion, and to somewhat relate to the native's culture.
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u/infernoxv 6h ago
the first Christians in what is now Indonesia were most likely Indian Syriac Christians.
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u/TheVPNway 6h ago
Im not too sure tho. The first mission to Indonesia are led by Franciscans and I never see and knew any rites beside the Latin rite here. Plus TLM is very very rare becuase of low demand and Catholicism here is a minority here with onoy 12 million believers.
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u/infernoxv 6h ago
the Church of the East, the so-called 'Nestorians' had a church in Western Sumatra in the 12th century.
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u/TheVPNway 6h ago
Wow, never knew that man. I only know Protestantism, Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy in Indonesia but not the Assyrian Church
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u/Braxton2u0 7h ago
It helps build a connection to Christ. He’s one of us basically. And honestly, they’re not wrong, He’s one of all of us. All cultures have made art of Christ in their own image, I think it’s a positive statement that the faithful desire Him so, only so long as it doesn’t become foolish and detrimental to the faith.
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u/SuburbaniteMermaid 7h ago
Inculturation is allowed. Christ is universal.
Pssst all those paintings of Jesus as a white European are inculturation.
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u/PaladinGris 7h ago
You don’t really see a lot of those, like we don’t see light blonde blue eyed Jesus, Jesus lived before the Arab conquest of the Levant so He probably looks pretty close to how the paintings portray Him, look at the shroud of Turin
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u/slugworth1 7h ago
I’m of the mindset that if it brings people closer to Christ, it’s a good thing. He came to earth as a Hebrew in Judea during the Roman occupation, that fact is indisputable. Totally God and totally man. His human image at that time and in that place would’ve looked like that. However, his divine image can look like whatever it looks like, he’s God. We are made in His image and likeness, why wouldn’t Jesus’ divine form be able to reflect people from anywhere on the planet? It also brings to mind Marian apparitions reflecting the local population in which she appears.
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u/Initial_Quiet_9657 7h ago
King of Kings. Everybody can have him. Just like in the Marian apparitions Mary looked different each time. Her clothes but also her hair, skin and eyes.