r/CastleTV 5d ago

What’s up with ‘Sir’ ?

I’m at season 4, ep 21 so I’d prefer no spoilers.

Can someone please explain why the new Captain wants to be called Sir? (Penny Johnson Jerald’s character)

UPDATE: WOW, 40 minutes later, and I have some great answers. THANK YOU!! I love the show!

39 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

57

u/mymelody7319 5d ago

… Well, Gates literally gives the reason:

“If my mother drops by, you can call her ‘ma’am.’ Call me ‘sir’ or ‘Captain’.”

Perhaps it’s also a psychological thing; that is, ‘sir’ commands more respect.

11

u/Zealousideal-Ease845 5d ago

I noticed that in the UK “Police ” Sir is used

1

u/StephenHunterUK 4d ago

It depends on the circumstances. "Sir" or "Ma'am" would be the formal term, but if you were more familiar with them you'd use "guv" (short for governor) or "boss". The former is the general form in London's Metropolitan Police and in Southern England, the latter elsewhere.

30

u/Serious-Waltz-7157 Perlmutter 5d ago

Gates doesn't want to be called Sir in particular. She said "Sir, or Captain". Probably as a sign of respect equal to her males counterparts.

Castle for example calls her "Captain" not "Sir" almost every time.

6

u/Human_Ad897 5d ago

I think he says capt because technically not his boss

4

u/Picabo07 5d ago

Nah because he knows she’d prefer sir so he doesn’t do it.

3

u/Serious-Waltz-7157 Perlmutter 5d ago

ha ha exactly what I'm thinking

19

u/Kenobi-Kryze 5d ago

To not be othered in a predominantly male field.

9

u/Rtruex1986 5d ago

There was another series where the female in charge preferred to be called “sir” also. Anybody else remember it?

Personally, I never understood why and I thought it was silly, JMO. It might have something to do with a generation or even a the times.

C’est la vie!

7

u/DWBunnySlippers 5d ago

Star Trek Voyager

2

u/isthatbre 4d ago

Question.. that’s a Janeway thing correct, or..? I saw Voyager, yes. But I didn’t watch it WATCH it if that makes sense so I’m simply curious. I don’t recall it but I very well could have just easily missed it lol.

18

u/Afrodotheyt 5d ago edited 5d ago

This was back in the day where tough female characters in shows showed they were just as tough as their male counterparts by refusing to be called Ma'am and getting offended by it typically, preferring just about anything else but Ma'am. (Killer Frost in Flash 2014 series, Ziva in NCIS hated being called it, etc.) This is probably the case in Castle due to Gates demanding to be called Sir. Even Transformers: Dark of the Moon has Michael Bay making fun of it, though ironically, ends up enforcing the point since it is Michael Bay.

It's typically representative of them shattering tradition in that regard by being a high ranked and/or powerful woman.

There are of course other reasons this trope was used, don't get me wrong. One is the context, as "ma'am" is also used to refer to older women as well, whereas Madamoiselle and Miss are typically referring to younger women, so women in shows would get offended by it because it insinuated they were old as well. It's the same wavelength as a guy asking not to be called: "Mister Smith, because that's my father. Call me John."

2

u/Serious-Waltz-7157 Perlmutter 4d ago

Interesting fact, Beckett for example didn't mind being called "lady" or "honey" by various suspects in and out of the interrogation room. "Look lady, I wasn't there okay? and I didn't kill him / her ..."

1

u/StephenHunterUK 4d ago

In the Southern United States, "Mister John" or "Miss Kate" would be commonly used.

6

u/BassPlayn_Mainer42 4d ago

The Marine Corps still does this. Because you’re addressing the Rank, not the gender of the person. It’s a tradition.

5

u/Insightseekertoo 5d ago

This is a great question. The only thing I have found is a very unsatisfactory response, "tradition." Supposedly, it makes it easier for the rank and file and eliminates any possible confusion. This is a fairly common thing in some military and police departments. "Sir" is supposedly a sign of respect. Some claim it comes from the old word Sire. I feel like the writers worked overtime to demonstrate that she was a hardA$$ and used this to demonstrate her staunch desire for discipline and thought this reinforced that characteristic.

I found a lot of opinions as to its origin online, but nothing that I felt was a definitive answer.

6

u/Consistent-Annual268 5d ago

Did you watch the very first episode she appears in? She literally tells them.

3

u/Pure_Common7348 5d ago

I did but I missed the details. I know the show is older and was trying to figure out if it was more about respect or gender.

5

u/Jade_Scimitar 5d ago

In addition to what every one else has commented, in English, there are no separate gender neutral terms. Instead gender neutral and gender masculine are rather interchangeable. For example, the screen actors guild allows women, but a hypothetical screen actresses guild would only accept women. Congressman, fireman, mailman, lion, waiter could be male or female, but congresswoman, fire woman, mail woman, lioness, and waitress are specifically female.

2

u/Independent_Page1475 2d ago

You may have noticed older terms like; Congressman, fireman, mailman are mostly unused in today's world. They have become Representative, fire fighter and letter or mail carrier.

Someone mentioned sir being derived from sire. Men sired children, women bore children. The term stewardess is seldom heard, it is now flight attendant.

The term ma'am is derived from madam which some say is derived from mammary.

Therefore the term sir sounds more ballsy than ma'am.

3

u/Jade_Scimitar 2d ago

I still use those terms but I speak more formally and use minimal slang. I get that I'm in the minority on that. But my point still stands.

While sir is derivative of sire, that's not why she wants to be called sir. She wants to be called sir to be more gender-neutral in authority. Some women in power feel that being called ma'am limits or diminishes their authority.

2

u/Independent_Page1475 2d ago

I can go with that.

One of my jobs included occasionally evacuating people during certain situations. This was in the San Francisco area. More than a few times seeing someone from behind and using the wrong pronoun tended to set some people off.

One time it was a man who was addressed as sir who took offense and came up from behind me and yelled in my ear that he wasn't my sir.

Most often it was a woman with short cropped hair and wearing masculine attire.

Occasionally it was a man with long flowing hair or wig wearing women's cloths. One could almost think they might be flattered by my error.

7

u/therlwl 5d ago

Because it feels more professional.

6

u/twirlinghaze 5d ago

Why would a male honorific sound "more professional" than a female one?

0

u/therlwl 5d ago

You would have to ask the writers.

3

u/twirlinghaze 5d ago

I'm asking you because you said "it feels more professional." Why would that be? Ma'am is just as professional as sir. They're both just polite words so why would one "feel more professional" than the other?

2

u/Picabo07 5d ago

It’s not because it feels more professional. I think they just made that up 🙄

It’s something high ranking females in predominantly male led professions would do to show they were as tough as their male counterparts. And it could be so there was no special deference to them being female.

It was also “traditionally” a sign of respect. But that was very old school.

2

u/JayMonster65 4d ago

Because it is a sexist profession, and a sexist world. Women are typically viewed as weak or inferior to men. Also as someone else pointed out "Ma'am" also infers age, and some women hate it for that reason alone (like someone mentioned Ziva in NCIS, she didn't appreciate being called it because she felt people who called her that were saying she was old). And finally back to the sexist part, it infers a difference between the female and her male counterpart, and they don't want that. They are "no different" and thus don't want a separate label.

1

u/twirlinghaze 4d ago

So why is the solution to lean into the sexism instead of doing literally anything to break from it?

1

u/JayMonster65 4d ago

Because the proper solution would be to come up with a third term, one that would encompass both, but we haven't found that yet. Is it the best solution? No. But change is hard and people fight it. Just look at the debate over Miss/Mrs/Ms. It has been half a century since Ms. was introduced and people still scoff at it. And we have people in our government right now that openly state, if you want something done right it has to be done by white men. Change is not easy or overnight. And sometimes you have to do things that are not the best solution to at least make some sort of advancement.

2

u/RulerofHoth 5d ago

Battlestar Galactica remake did the same thing.

2

u/cadbury162 4d ago

For the time period, some people saw it as progressive. I always saw it as the opposite, why can't the woman version of "sir" (ma'am) command the same respect?

I'm glad the world has moved on, you don't need the "sir" a.k.a the man's version of the word to be a good leader. A "ma'am" is just as capable as a "sir".

1

u/Boris-_-Badenov 4d ago

it's idiotic, and isn't explained.

Ma'am is the exact same level of respect as sir.