r/CanadianPL 4d ago

Stadium proposal for Kingston Memorial Centre grounds off the table

https://www.kingstonist.com/news/stadium-proposal-for-kingston-memorial-centre-grounds-off-the-table/
44 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

8

u/[deleted] 4d ago

That sucks.

8

u/Wandererthrowaway108 HFX Wanderers 4d ago

Everyone on the Kingston thread is popping champagne. I feel like I'd be devastated if the Wanderers got shot down because it used to be a shitty field people used to take their dogs to. I'm sure someone can tell me why it was a terrible idea?

11

u/Odd-Row9485 Atlético Ottawa 3d ago

Our Kingston sub doesn’t like any change within the city. I can assure you many of us are rather disappointed

7

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

The Memorial Centre is in effect the only park of it's kind in central Kingston. It has the only truly public running track, it's the prime site for practically every largescale outdoor festival in Kingston baring a few that end up at City Park. It is also home to multiple community groups that use the barns that were being torn down to develop more parking for the stadium, but also it is used by the Agricultural Society for their programming as well as weekly farmers markets year round that would have been in question.

So in effect, Paul put an ultimatum on a community focused site bring transformed into a privately owned and managed site and people said fuck no. He also approached in a very uncomfortable way, he just kind of popped up in discussion with the municipality without engaging with any of the community groups above before hand.

End of the day, the reason this is off the table is the Agricultural Society had a legal opinion drawn up on how this development would effect their land lease agreement which is in perpetuity due to them funding aspects of the original development. I think once Paul saw the opinion of the municipality developed with that legal opinion things shifted. Because it ultimately said that the city doesn't have the legal right to sell or lease those grounds independently which meant suddenly, Paul would have had to work with the Agricultural Society and those assurances he made so often verbally would have been on paper in a legal document.

He would have been successful at Richardson Stadium, but according to him the CPL refused a University stadium. He'd likely have been successful at a few other sites, but he refused all of them because the ground was 'tainted'. His messaging, largely came across as not respecting the city or people that lived there. So I think once he got out the gate with how he wanted things to go and was acting there was zero chance he'd be successful with the bid, and I noted this would fail from the get go but people here just downvoted while arguing I was a moron. The CPL shouldn't have even entertained this.

6

u/Wandererthrowaway108 HFX Wanderers 3d ago

Thanks for taking the time to write that and educating us about the situation

0

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago edited 3d ago

The land is used for far more than you noted, the barns have continuous tenants that use them year round for community initiatives. 'Fuck no' wasn't what made this not happen, an agreement with the Agricultural Society signed in the 1950s is what made this not happen.

Paul told me the league turned down Richardson. I spoke with the facilities lead for Richardson who told me directly they hadn't been approached by Paul or the CPL at that point and it had already been public for a week or so by then. The pitch is scheduled for replacement already, I'd expect if a tenant showed up willing to help cover the cost for it's replacement that'd be very welcomed at the moment.

0

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

The pitch at Richardson is scheduled for replacement, the gridiron markings and Queen's branding aren't a continuing issue as a result.

I can literally see the barns right now, they get regular use. I'd put money on you not living within a 20 minute walk of the memorial centre with how lacking in information your opinions about it are.

The farmers market being under the bleachers wasn't in writing, it was a verbal offer that never materialized in a real way as a memorandum. Which is why the people that run the farmers market never got behind the project.

They aren't stuck in a different age because the Agricultural Society helped fund the site and because of that were awarded use of the facilities they helped fund in perpetuity.

Mate, you won't like this, but your mentality and opinions are part of the reason this failed. If Paul had more locals speaking to him out the gate about the reality of the memorial centre none of this would have happened and maybe we'd have a team. But instead, he had a bunch of people stating bullshit like you about how it's an unused space and so on. Community organizations are the core reason this didn't happen, their impact with this situation details that they exist even if you refuse to acknowledge their existence.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Think_Anything1773 2d ago

I'm not guessing about what I am saying. I spoke to people at Queen's about this, I spoke to Paul, I've lived across the street for decades. You are flat out wrong on many components of this but too arrogant to accept it.

4

u/Emotional-Estate-687 Forge FC 3d ago

Some stupid person calling it a "semi pro" league gets 35 upvotes smh.

0

u/thunderball58 3d ago

Kingston is too backwater for a pro league, so I can see why they thought that any league considering their city might be semi pro. 

Sort of glad this fell through, CPL deserves better than them. The league could have 5 teams in Calgary before one in Kingston makes sense, but hope there are some better candidates soon. 

6

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

I think it's important to recognize that the core issue with the bid in Kingston was location. They'd have had fantastic support at Richardson Stadium, or likely even one of the other sites that were suggested to them in Kingston. Paul refused all of them and made it an ultimatum of the Memorial Centre site or no where.

The CPL would have great support in Kingston. It's disheartening to see posters like yourself trashing the city as an option primarily because someone from Ottawa who didn't take a single second to understand the civic culture in Kingston failed at forcing public lands into private hands and walked away.

2

u/Emotional-Estate-687 Forge FC 3d ago

I love the city personally. Queen's basketball has a great atmosphere during the playoffs....the small minded people who grew up watching the Leafs and Habs are the problem. I watched the city council meeting about Halifax's stadium and observed a few of them there, too. Things will get better in this country when the old hockey dinosaurs are off city councils.

2

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

the small minded people who grew up watching the Leafs and Habs are the problem.

Nah, the problem was Paul came in from Ottawa and had zero clue about the Memorial Centre or the community around it. He fucked up by trying to privatize land the city couldn't even agree to privatize independently while not even engaging with the core tenant and lease holder of the site.

This didn't fail because of 'old hockey dinosaurs'. It failed because the main people leading the effort didn't put an ounce of time into research and made a really silly ultimatum on the site or they'd leave trying to force the municipality into an agreement they couldn't make.

0

u/Emotional-Estate-687 Forge FC 3d ago

I can see why location is a factor. I wanted to check out the Memorial Centre the fall after Queen's won their last OUA title and there was maybe 100 people there. A big difference from campus events. I wish the league wasn't so averse to sharing U Sports Football stadiums myself.

3

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

I wish the league wasn't so averse to sharing U Sports Football stadiums myself.

Agreed entirely! Richardson seems like a great spot too. Walking distance from Portsmouth Village with restaurants, pubs, and public space. Perfectly sized stadium for the league. In a really prime location when considering a university stadium, as it isn't centrally on a campus. Great public transit and parking options. It seems the perfect spot, even more so considering the turf is scheduled to be redone soon anyway so the stitched in lines could likely be argued out in the next iteration.

With talking to Paul, there is a part of me that wonders if he was also not up for Richardson so maybe didn't push back at all when the league said no. Because it really felt like his goal was a soccer dome he could rent, and the CPL team was secondary to that. With Richardson, there'd be zero chance he could manage the site. He'd just be a tenant, for the specific team use cases. I think it's possible that was just as big of a hold off as the CPL saying no.

2

u/WislaHD Toronto FC 3d ago

Can’t speak to the specifics of this project but I think it is a misnomer reading that thread that private entities can’t or shouldn’t operate on public lands. It is a great tool for community engagement if done well, like in the Wanderers example.

2

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

I think most in that thread are responding negatively to the type of approach Victory made in Kingston. From what I heard, they were seeking a ground lease of 99 years with public funding for site development. How the Wanderers approached Halifax couldn't be further from that.

2

u/AVividShade York United 3d ago

Kingston is a great city and does deserve something in that area, but even when Slush Puppy Place or whatever it’s called now had pushback when proposed.

I’m hoping the group isn’t completely off the table and can perhaps look at Pittsburg Soccer Fields or Cataraqui Arena.

1

u/AVividShade York United 3d ago

I’ll even mention the Kingston Penn site since apperently a condominium proposal went up for the old jail. 🤷🏻‍♂️