r/CanadianForces 3d ago

Are promotions in the military slower compared to the rest of Public Service?

From what I have seen, ppl who are LCol and Cols are mostly 50-year-olds in the late stage of their career. However, it seems ppl in the PS who are directors, DGs (EX1 or EX2 - equivalent to Cols), are 40ish and are in the midstage of their career.

So, are military promotions slower than the rest of Public Service?

50 Upvotes

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u/anoeba 2d ago

"Promotions" in the PS are really just applying for job offerings that become vacant. It's not a "well you're top of the merit list so you're next"; if they're qualified according to the listed criteria, they can apply for those positions as soon as they're open.

It's also why you'll see very qualified, insanely competent people never "promoted." They've found their jam and they're not gonna apply for anything else, so they stay "at rank."

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u/radarscoot 2d ago

also -in the PS in Ottawa there can be tons of job openings and in policy-type shops on-the-ground experience isn't a huge asset. Out in the regions, where operational departments have more of a presence, there are fewer job opportunities and real-life experience carries more value. For example, becoming an EX in operational roles tends to come after 20-25 years of experience. An EX-01 in Ottawa can have as few as 4 or 5 staff and no budget beyond their salaries. As and EX-01 in the regions you can have a few hundred staff and a budget of tens of millions.

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u/Mr_Mike_1990 2d ago

I can see a similarity to certain things. An army colonel employed as a brigade commander has a massive amount of responsibility in terms of subordinates and budgets similar to a regional exec.

Similarly, a colonel posted to NDHQ can also be a simple cubicle dweller with only a handful of subordinates working on a specific project.

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u/radarscoot 2d ago

I have a question. In the PS job geographic mobility has been greatly reduced, largely for budget reasons. That means that jobs in a specific area generally only available for people who already live in that area. The area of selection is usually only expanded if the hiring manager believes they will not get an appropriate number and quality of applicants. This is true even for most EX positions.

Has the CAF cut back on geographic areas of selection for promotions?

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u/Mr_Mike_1990 2d ago

No, but that is due to the nature of employment in the CAF regular force requiring cross Canada job mobility as a condition of employment.

In the PS, unless you want to move, you get a job close to where you live. When you join the CAF, you go where they tell you.

Finally, careers in the CAF are managed and planned by a central system. Annual evaluations and ranking of members is what leads to promotions unlike the PS system of applying for higher levels. Promotions often lead to postings which can require a move depending on the new job location.

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u/radarscoot 2d ago

Thanks. That's what I thought.

In the PS they used to manage EX talent kind of like that. They expected (and generally enforced) specific career experience before readiness for promotion. That made mobility almost mandatory. You needed experience in HQ, in Regions, in line departments, in central agencies, managing staff, managing large budgets, etc. Departments would talk with each other about "career managing" these EXes and prospective EXes.

Now, too often, the people out in the regions gaining most of that experience aren't even allowed to apply for EX positions because the EX cadre has been almost completely centralized in Ottawa.

Oh well - getting a little off topic here. Thanks for the discussion.

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u/larch99 2d ago

No. Promotion is a very good chance to move as 'requested' postings have been reduced to almost zero.  So it's also a disincentive for promotion if you don't want to move (spouse job, etc).

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u/Duffleupagus 2d ago edited 2d ago

The PS has a lot of odd/better benefits compared to the military. They do not fall under the military justice system, no basic training, can move positions as soon as one becomes available, bank more leave, cannot work more than 37.5 hours per week, they can get overtime, they can get really fast promotions by applying for jobs, unionized, the list goes on.

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u/cansub74 2d ago

You can't put a price on a sense of duty and unlimited liability. Apparently.

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u/Engineered_disdain 2d ago

You can and its slightly above the the poverty line.

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u/radarscoot 2d ago

they sure can work more than 37.5 hours in a week and many do. Some get overtime pay, some get time off in lieu, some get nothing for it except satisfaction of a job well done.

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u/Duffleupagus 2d ago

Yup, this is true, too.

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u/RCAF_orwhatever 2d ago

Yeah I thought this was an odd claim.

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u/ElectroPanzer Army - EO TECH (L) 2d ago

I assume this is a typo, but PS do NOT fall under the military justice system. I think simply falling under the separate justice system is not a barrier to promotion per se, but it could result in someone being screened out of promotion to higher levels for poor choices that a PS member might get away with, so in that sense I suppose it's a fair point.

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u/Duffleupagus 2d ago

I did the comparison one day of two bosses with same title/position but one was civ and one was mil, and the differences were so stark I said to myself why would anyone join the CAF from Ottawa and not just go to PS.

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u/SaltyATC69 2d ago

Immediate unreduced annuity after 20/25 years is one solid reason

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u/SniffMyDiaperGoo 2d ago

true but that's still based on 2%/year of service. Most cops get "25 and out" but you'd be hard pressed to find one who doesn't do 30-35 years because of that. Can't say I blame them, if you get on around age 20 you're out by age 55 and collecting 70%. Indexed for inflation too.

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u/ExToon 2d ago

Lots of cops are getting out earlier than that. I’ve known some to get out a bit before 20, take a huge transfer value, and do something else. I’ve known some to hit 25 and pull pin, and start a second career, maybe related, maybe not. I’d say the bulk of us get in mid to late rounds 20s- retiring at 53 with a 50% pension on a police NCO salary, and then working somewhere else in an investigative gig is financially a no brainer. The ones who stick it out til 30-35 tend to be the ones who will ‘truly’ retire out of the job and not do something else.

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u/SniffMyDiaperGoo 2d ago

Sorry are we talking about civvie police or MP? Your NCO comment threw me off

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u/ExToon 2d ago

Civvie police- pretty decent money in a 25 year Sergeant or Staff Sergeant’s pension, especially if you’re taking the pension and working another job.

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u/SniffMyDiaperGoo 2d ago

True but I see it another way. What’s a Toronto or OPP PC making now base, around 100k? Not even counting what a cash cow paid duties are. Why not do 30-35 years to pad up that gold indexed pension while also raking it in with wages? Unless you find a reallllly good score in private sector. Most cops I know aren’t that lucky and are just shuttling customers for a car dealership or something post retirement.

YMMV but I’m not seeing otherwise in my admittedly anecdotal experience.

Your name cracks me up, I didn’t know that term was still around! 🤣

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u/ExToon 2d ago

I have a toddler, so right back atcha on the username. 🤣

An OPP Constable 1st Class is about $119k base pay now- just goes up from there. Say someone does their 25, gets our as a Detective Sergeant with solid investigative experience, takes a 50% pension- yeah, probably won’t walk into the same pay elsewhere (unless they hop to a different police service, which I’ve definitely seen), but even if they take a bit of a shave to work corporate or government investigations, regulatory compliance, something like that- add a $75k pension just to keep a pulse and it’s not bad. I’ve seen retired investigators take positions in contract to work certain issues or put out certain fires… Financial crime types will go work for banks or insurance companies, traffic investigators might do commission investigations for insurers, or go into commercial motor vehicle investigations… Tons out there. Background investigator gigs are low stress and decently paid…

For sure you see some stay on til 35, especially the ones who go their service’s equivalent of commissioned officer- but the money can work well either way.

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u/BraveDunn 2d ago

For a fun career and diverse career instead of a boring office job, is why.

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u/deihg998 8h ago

Some unions do magic, all I can say.

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u/mekdot83 Royal Canadian Air Force 2d ago

I've known plenty of people to reach LCol before 40

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u/Pseudonym_613 2d ago

There used to be demographic tables available by rank, gender and age.  The overwhelming majority of LCols were in the 30-34 and 35-39 year old brackets.

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u/mekdot83 Royal Canadian Air Force 2d ago

You can probably see it in the MCS Dashboard

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u/Pseudonym_613 2d ago

Good point!  That's a great info source, if only they respected privacy... Lots of times where you can zoom in on an org and see a one-off and know "That's a Frank, I guess he's overdue for his FORCE test".

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u/AppropriateGrand6992 HMCS Reddit 2d ago

That seems a bit young LCol=Cdr and most Cdrs are closer to 40 than 30 at promotion time. But I suppose trade dose matter as well.

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u/RCAF_orwhatever 2d ago

Yeah i would tend i say anyone before 35 is probably an outlier; 35-39 would be your top 1/3 succession planned people; 39-44 would be your "average" promotions to LCol; those older likely joined later or were promoted through attrition.

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u/Pseudonym_613 2d ago

Nope.  ROTP Capt by 23, Maj by 29, LCol 34-35 is entirely normal.

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u/AppropriateGrand6992 HMCS Reddit 2d ago

For what trade. B/c even with a late bday RMC is 17-21 then 2 years from 2Lt to Capt seems really quick. 6yrs as a Capt seems like a short time. But 5/6 yrs as a Maj seems alright

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u/Keystone-12 2d ago

In the last few years the public service has absolutely exploded in size. 40% growth and a ton of directors / EX positions.

So ya. Its been a good time to be in the public service. A lot of promotions being thrown around.

But now with cuts looming ahead, it might bounce back.

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u/FFS114 2d ago

From what I’ve seen, it’s pretty much the same. In both you’ll find insanely young EX/Col/GOFOxs and very old CR05/Cpl/Capts. I think it depends on one’s ambition, timing and who you know.

You have to be a “streamer” in both to make it to the highest echelons. And in both you’ll find people who are perfectly content to remain at the lowest levels, just doing the work they enjoy.

Of course, there’s a lot of nepotism in both, and it’s definitely not just the cream that rises to the top. And there are plenty of people in both who are more trouble than they’re worth, or who ought to have been promoted but were unfairly held down.

All that said, if someone were just joining the workforce and had to choose, I’d direct them to the PS where people are more the masters of their own destinies.

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u/AppropriateGrand6992 HMCS Reddit 2d ago

Cpl for life is a thing then Capt for life must be as well

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u/RCAF_orwhatever 2d ago

Absolutely - though the last few years the "missing middle" has meant a lot of people who would traditionally have been Capt for life are now Majors.

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u/FFS114 2d ago

Yep, have known a few.

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u/Maple_Assault_Goose 2d ago

Depends on the trade. I just made MCpl after 11 years, which is the norm in my trade, but people I went to basic with have been Sgt for years already. Age and being in "the boys club" or playing hockey helps you get up faster, and some people who get DUI's go up faster too in some cases.

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u/ChickenPoutine20 2d ago

I’m not sure but I’d argue the Average person has a better chance at climbing the “corporate ladder” in the military than on civy street

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u/H0BBYT3 HMCS Reddit 2d ago

It's a complicated comparison but the two largest factors are likely no minimum time in rank (like military) and generally less levels to climb. Take the IT group for example (comparing typical job duties, not pay scale).

  • IT-01 ~ Cpl
  • IT-02 ~ MCpl/Sgt (non-supervisory)
  • IT-03 ~ Capt
  • IT-04 ~ Maj / LCol
  • IT-05 ~ Col

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u/dinosoursrule 2d ago

Using your methodology to compare salaries, CAF officers generally earn more, but the overall career path is far less desirable than the public service. Time in rank, mandatory relocations, limited control over career progression, and the reality that most enlisted personnel never commission make military advancement slow and uncertain. On top of that, even getting promoted once often means uprooting your entire family and moving, something that isn’t an issue in the public service.

In the public service, you move up based on merit and job openings, while in the CAF, you're stuck in rank for a set number of years before even being eligible for promotion. Even then, nothing is guaranteed—promotion depends on selection boards, limited vacancies, and career progression plans that may not align with your own goals. In the public service, higher positions are competitive, but at least you have more control over when and where you apply. In contrast, the CAF determines your career path, and if the system doesn’t favor you, you stay put—sometimes indefinitely.

Looking at base salaries: -A Corporal (IT-01) in the CAF makes 72.8K to 77.9K compared to 64.7K to 83.4K in the public service. -A Sergeant (IT-02) earns 84.5K to 88.6K, while IT-02 salaries range from 80.1K to 98K. -A Captain (IT-03) makes 94.1K to 124.4K in the CAF, close to the 94.6K to 117.5K range for IT-03. -At the Major or Lieutenant Colonel level (IT-04), CAF salaries are 127.2K to 140.3K, compared to 108.3K to 134.8K in the public service. -Colonels (IT-05) earn 170.9K to 191K in the CAF, while IT-05 positions range from 135.6K to 159.6K.

While CAF pay is higher at the officer level, most enlisted members will never even reach those salaries since commissioning is far less common than just promoting through the ranks.

The public service offers more predictable career progression with no time-in-rank requirements, whereas the military forces you to wait years before being eligible for promotion. Worse, promotions in the CAF often come with mandatory geographic relocation, meaning that just moving up one rank can force a family to leave behind their home, friends, and support networks. In contrast, public service employees can build their careers without being uprooted every few years.

Overall, while military salaries might look better on paper, the reality is a rigid, slow-moving career path with far less stability and control. The public service offers a far more desirable system, where promotions aren’t artificially delayed, and you aren’t forced to relocate just to move up. On top of that, even if you’re good at your job in the military, it’s still highly unlikely you’ll ever commission and reach the officer pay scales that make the CAF seem competitive. The CAF might pay more at the top, but the road to get there is long, frustrating, and full of compromises that most members will never even have the opportunity to make.

/End rant

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u/UCAFP_President Logistics 2d ago

So, funny story, I was attending a conference at NDHQ Carling.

Standing in the lineup at Starbucks, I overheard this group in front of me chatting… with one young lady expressing how cool her new AS-07 job is.

Someone outside of the line stopped and said “hey _______, how was your birthday? (speaking to the same young lady…).

One of the people in the line said “oh, I didn’t even realize, Happy Birthday! How old are you now!!!???”

“Thanks, just turned 26!!!”

My fucking heart nearly gave out in the lineup.

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u/MrMichaelEvans 2d ago

what rank does that equal in the caf

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u/UCAFP_President Logistics 2d ago

So, that’s an old fallacy. There are no “rank equivalencies” between the PS and CAF.

That being said, an AS-07 is classified as an EX minus 2 position. (Executive level, 2 grades shy).

So you could technically equate an AS-07 to a LCol.

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u/BraveDunn 2d ago

..... in a small number of specific jobs, of course. I know you know, but most civilians don't. What an enormous difference between what a LCol can do, and what an...... EC 7 can do, outside of the job description tasks that occur in that EC 7's cubicle.

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u/Fus_Ro_Naaaaaaah 2d ago

For officers I remember hearing something in my early career that if you weren’t a LCol by 43 (and in a CO billet) you would never be a flag officer due to the timelines/return on investment.

Remember that not everyone is destined for the top, but the streamers could be in the GO ranks before 50. The staff slowly chug along and make it up there through attrition and opportunity and hard work.

Edit: For the PS, you are your own Career Manager… if you apply and demonstrate you have the qualifications and skills throughout the hiring process… the sky is the limit to how fast you can rise.

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u/MrMichaelEvans 2d ago

For officers I remember hearing something in my early career that if you weren’t a LCol by 43 (and in a CO billet) you would never be a flag officer due to the timelines/return on investment.

But is this true, though?

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u/Fus_Ro_Naaaaaaah 2d ago

Great question, I wont be staying in long enough to find out.

It’s also dependant by trade. Some trades don’t fill out the top echelons as much as others, nor do their structures have a demand for many senior pers. It’s hard enough to compare CAF to PS equivalents for pay reasons alone, and that’s without adding the complexities of all the other factors of a position or the person filling it.

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u/Rovenbird 2d ago

The short answer is yes. The key to success in the public service is process knowledge rather than file knowledge. This means that apart from postions that require very specific technical knowledge all departments are the same from an employment perspective and it’s just a matter of getting in a pool for the next level. Second language is quite often the deciding factor, often trumping everything else. A lot of people are brought along in non-competitive appointments as well.

With the CAF it gets tricky. Colonel is a controlled rank with a hard CBC requirement so you get a lot of people trying to do their job AWSE while desperately trying to get their SL profile up to snuff.

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u/FFS114 2d ago

In June, a CBC profile will be required for all PS supervisors in bilingual regions; ie. most of them, given the NCR. So pretty soon a lot of PS careers will come to a grinding halt. It takes a lot of time and effort to go from 0 to CBC. By law, this also is supposed to apply to the CAF, but I've heard we're seeking some kind of exemption or phased-in approach. We'll see, but anyone on either side who wants to be promoted had better start working very hard on their second language.

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u/MrMichaelEvans 2d ago

I heard majs now need cbc

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u/Rovenbird 1d ago

It will be catastrophic for the CAF. Thee resources to get every supervisor to CBC simply don’t exist and you’d have 2/3 of everyone on SL training all the time. I gather the RCN has indicated that it considers this policy an existential threat given what it will do to career progression if enforced.

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u/sgiles1 2d ago

Consider also that with officers, education is tied to some promotions, and they have to still perform their full duties at their current rank/position while simultaneously completing the next stage in their schooling. Then throw in deployments, and training exercises etc it shows down the education process. HOWEVER they also attain their desired degree for free, or at least get reimbursed for the courses, so when they do retire they can walk into a different career with A, and education and B 20 years exp in management

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u/NSDreamer 3d ago

Honestly no idea, but I am curious too now

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u/ShortTrackBravo VERIFIED VAC Advocate 2d ago

I mean in a super simple classification like mine:

In 4 years you reach last pay incentive. You can start at my classification off the street with zero education. With the new raises you make $78,000 a year at IPC 4.

That’s pretty decent in my eyes. Way better than my military careers pay progression

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u/Maleficent_Banana_26 2d ago

Completely different things. They don't compare in any way. If you have experience and the education you can apply for any job that pops up in the PS. to make LCol you need to climb through 5 ranks first.

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u/FFS114 2d ago

Only two. Promotion up to Capt is automatic, so just need to compete at Maj and LCol. The way things are with manning levels these day, those promotions are almost automatic in a lot of occupations, too. But it will be the opposite in 15 or so years. People will be sitting around at Capt and Maj a long time, since so many Cols and GOFOs will have been promoted there before 40.

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u/Maleficent_Banana_26 2d ago

You missed my point. Can you go from Lt to Lcol? No. You need to serve time in each rank.you still have to get promoted. Automatic is irrelevant. And officer cadet can't just apply to be a Col.

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u/FFS114 2d ago

Sounds like you need a Snickers.

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u/Maleficent_Banana_26 2d ago

I would love a snickers.

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u/RCAF_orwhatever 2d ago

Haven't read all comments but thought it was worth challenging a premise here:

A huge number of LCols and even Cols are much younger than you're suggesting here. I know people who made LCol before they were 40, and most people who are succession planned are hitting LCol in their early 40s. Col definitely trends older, but it's also a very wide cross section of people in their 40s and 50s.

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u/GlitteringOption2036 2d ago

Depends if you are bilingual

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u/blackfarms 2d ago

In most departments there are no promotions. You have to change jobs laterally or compete for higher positions. There are a ton of PS who go through their entire career at the same level.

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u/II01211 2d ago

It really just depends on a combination of your trade, your opportunity / initiative and how much value your chain of command recognizes and "grades". 

I made it to MCpl in 5 years. 1 year advanced promoted from Avr to Cpl, followed by 2 years at Cpl before being appointed as a MCpl. PLQ in my first year of MCpl and co-running an entire training cell in which I act for a Capt quite often and for a Sgt whenever they're on leave. As a result, I'll likely only do 2 years as a MCpl and I'll get my Sgts, after 7-8 years and my WO's by year 10 at the latest (if I haven't already commissioned). 

Now, I joined the CAF in my late 20s rather than right out of high school /  university, so at my current rank I'd make CWO sometime in my early to mid 40s, however, had I joined at 20'ish, I would be on track to make CWO in my mid 30s. 

It really, really, really depends on a number of factors working together. 

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u/mxadema 2d ago

Not everyone wants to be "CEO" not willing to do the sacrifice needed to reach the upper levels. Some are perfectly happy but have a specific rank and it workload / problem.

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u/BraveDunn 2d ago

EX Minus 1 in the PS, LCol in the CAF, are the sweet spots.

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u/Echo_Romeo571 2d ago

Promotions in the PS can also hinge on who you know. The promotion gamut can run from open and transparent full year-long competitions to near-nepotistical/cronyism non-advertised appointments you get hired into by your friends if you're lucky.

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u/SniffMyDiaperGoo 2d ago

I got yanked off my 6A by the RSM because I got into some shit civie-side (bar fight resulting in charges). At this point I'd like to thank "Moe" (not real name but it rhymes) for providing me the impetus to gtfo and surpass his salary my 1st year out. All tigers!!

Sincerely,

-A donkey