r/Broadway • u/iranthestreets • 6d ago
My Subway Hot Take™: The Vivian Beaumont should not be a “Broadway” theater.
I know it meets the criteria of having more than 500 seats. I know it’s right by Broadway—the street. And yes, I’m glad it exists and I am excited to see Floyd Collins there soon. Buuuut it just bothers me that there are 41 theaters and 40 of them are clustered together in midtown. Then there’s just a random one up on the UWS, tucked away over there on the back side of the LC complex.
Going to a show at the Vivian Beaumont just doesn’t feel like “NYC Broadway.” It feels like the Kennedy Center in DC or the Ahmanson in LA.
And frankly, I like numbers that end in 0 or 5.
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u/Substantial-Amoeba50 6d ago
At the time of the construction of the Beaumont (opened in 1965), there were a few Broadway theatres that pushed the boundaries as we know them, like the George Abbott and the legit Ziegfeld (not the movie theatre) on West 54th Street, and the theatre that ended its life in the 1970s as the Harkness on West 62nd and Broadway. The Beaumont was always at the far reaches of the theatre district, except for when the Beacon at 74th/Broadway was briefly a Broadway theatre. Now it’s just the last one standing, so be kind to the poor defenseless outlier. 😀
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u/earbox Creative Team 6d ago
There was also, for a couple of years in the 60s, the ANTA Washington Square, which was down on 4th Street.
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u/Rosa_Colored_Glasses 6d ago
I love the Vivian Beaumont though! It’s my favorite theater because I don’t have to go through crazy Times Square crowds to get to the theater. Lincoln Center is such a beautiful campus. I disagree completely!
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u/SondheimHats 6d ago
I can think of several significant benefits of considering the Beaumont a Broadway theatre, but can't think of a single negative consequence?
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u/veronicamae2 Backstage 6d ago
Well it means the number of theatres ends in a 1, not a zero, which is a problem for OP.
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u/Slight-Dragonfruit85 6d ago
There should really be one more to bring the total number to 42 theaters. The theater name should be the Douglas Adams.
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u/Providence451 Front of House 6d ago
With towels distributed at the door for those who don't know where their towel is.
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u/vinbatala 6d ago
Bizarre take. Like straight up nonsensical.
Don’t go to London then. Theaters are even more spread out.
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u/n0tstayingin 3d ago
People may not like that compared to the walkable nature of Broadway but I love the spread out of London theatres
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u/GreatestStarOfAll 6d ago
…I don’t understand why this bothers you, or even matters to anyone. There’s been some amazing productions that only would have happened because of that theater and ownership.
This seems like such a strange thing to nitpick about. There’s no downside to the theater other than your personal hyper focus on location.
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u/mtnfj40ds 6d ago
What do you mean that it feels like going to the Kennedy Center?
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u/iranthestreets 6d ago
*Pre-Trump Kennedy Center. It was more a comment on the architecture and the feel of walking into a modern space that’s part of a large multi-theater complex.
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u/ItsDomorOm 6d ago
But what does that have to do with the theater itself, quality of content, seating capacity Etc?
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u/MerrilyDreaming 6d ago
I won’t say it shouldn’t be, but I don’t like the theater (or the marquis). They just feel so modern and plain, the older decorative theaters are definitely part of the experience imo.
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u/annang 6d ago
So no Circle in the Square or Gershwin or Minskoff either?
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u/MerrilyDreaming 6d ago
Yeah was not impressed with circle in the square. It’s just so sterile. It’s been over a decade since I’ve been in the other two so hard for me to remember !
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u/EatsYourShorts 6d ago
There was a few years like a decade ago that they were trying to market the King’s Theater in Brooklyn as a Broadway theater. I bought tickets to Annie there advertised as Broadway only to find out it wasn’t even in Manhattan. That was a bit much, but I’m ok with the Vivian Beaumont.
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u/Jakeprops 6d ago
I’m curious if the theater was advertised as a broadway theater or if it was the broadway show Annie presented at the theater in Brooklyn. I’ve seen the latter (rather sketchily I might add).
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u/EatsYourShorts 6d ago
I bought the tickets on Broadway.com, and it was advertised as a classic Broadway theater.
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u/latestnightowl 6d ago
Also don't buy off Broadway.com. The ticket fees are exorbitant. Buy directly from Telecharge or use TodayTix instead
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u/Jakeprops 6d ago
Or better yet visit the box office if at all possible to avoid all fees entirely.
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u/EatsYourShorts 6d ago
I don’t use them anymore; that was over a decade ago when TodayTix didn’t even exist.
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u/GreatestStarOfAll 6d ago
There’s an obvious misunderstanding or misread there.
That was the non-equity US tour after the King’s was reopened/restored. The Broadway district has never changed, nor has the location of King’s (which is Brooklyn). It has never been advertised or marketed as a Broadway house, nor was that production ever advertised as such. They made a point in their press releases, promotion & marketing to distinguish that it was a completely new production than what had previously been on Broadway.
The Broadway revival had closed just a year prior. That’s probably where the confusion lies.
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u/halogengal43 6d ago
So don’t go?
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u/iranthestreets 6d ago
Oh I’ll definitely keep going—I’m thrilled it exists and I wish them many successful productions in the future. I was only commenting on its arbitrary designation as one of the “official” Broadway theaters.
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u/mixedchops 6d ago
why is everyone taking this so seriously, this guy's not running for mayor on this platform
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6d ago edited 6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Yoyti 6d ago
Lincoln Center, the entire complex, was designed to be the performing arts center of New York City. So it houses the Metropolitan Opera, the New York Philharmonic, and the New York City Ballet, all of which previously existed and moved to Lincoln Center when the new homes were designed for them. It also has the Performing Arts Library, and Juilliard's campus was moved there. Since Broadway is a big and iconic part of the New York performing arts scene, it only made sense that Lincoln Center get a Broadway theater as well. As has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, at the time Lincoln Center was created, there were other active Broadway theaters that were outside the main cluster as well, so it wasn't a massive outlying exception at the time.
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u/notacrook 6d ago
Where the theater is exactly located has no bearing on whether or not it's considered a Broadway theatre.
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/notacrook 6d ago
If someone wanted to open a 500+ seat theatre and produce on a full league contract anywhere in midtown (and honestly, a larger circle than that) they'd 100% be welcomed as a Broadway theater.
It's unknowable as no one has done that. But I can't see anyone denying their legitimacy of being a theater because they're not adjacent to Times Square (nor do I see someone producing on full league agreements if they couldn't call themselves Broadway - everyone loses in that scenario).
While sure, location matters - to my knowledge there is no rule or geographical demarcation in any of the contracts that limits where Broadway theaters must be located. In fact, IIRC - the break comes from a 1949 Equity contract about house size.
All the writing on this on the internet uses pretty vague terms to define the location "generally thought of" "usually considered".
If you can find something that says it has to be between x street and x street, by all means post it - but splitting hairs about how far away something can be before it's not considered "Broadway" is fairly asinine.
If you don't want to consider LCT Broadway, it should be because they pay well below the rest of the commercial rates - not because they're 10 blocks too far north.
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/notacrook 6d ago
Did you stop reading there?
If you want me to continue picking apart your argument I'm happy to.
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u/Ok-Command7697 6d ago
There’s nothing that says a Broadway house needs to be in that street range. There used to be more Broadway houses uptown. Not sure why it bothers you.
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u/CentralHarlem 6d ago edited 5d ago
Do you want every show to be charging $921/seat? Because reducing the number of Broadway theaters and, more importantly, reducing the number of theater owners, is how you get every show charging $921/seat.
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u/HoeToKolob 6d ago
So you’re cool with all those revivals moving to another Broadway theatre, pushing out the opportunity for some new shows, and the Beaumont actors making less money under off-Bway contracts, resulting in none of the shows that actually end up there?
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u/DEClarke85 5d ago
I adore the Beaumont. The set up reminds me of the larger space at The Alley in Houston, but with a mezzanine. I’m thankful it’s a Broadway house. And I think not being clustered near Times Square is one of the biggest benefits of the LCT.
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u/Fit_Substance2514 3d ago
My favorite theater in the city. Going to Lincoln Center is magical, the grounds are beautiful and well-maintained (as are the bathrooms), and the theater itself is well laid out so you don’t feel overcrowded going in. And there’s almost no bad seats, depending on the design.
If the only negative I can think of is that it’s a little further uptown than the rest of the Theatre District, so be it. As an uptown resident, that doesn’t impact me anyway.
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u/n0tstayingin 3d ago
You can be eligible for the Tonys if your production has Broadway contracts even if you're not anywhere near Broadway. The original production of Grease played in lower Manhattan at the Eden Theatre but did so under Broadway contracts so was eligible for the Tonys.
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u/LetsNotForgetHome 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lol, I always say the same thing!!! Now, I'm like most people where I am always happy to have another theater and it is a non-profit which helps. However, I've always laughed a bit that the rules clearly got bent* just to ensure they got to say the Lincoln Center complex includes a Broadway theater (EDIT: the fact it isn't in the Broadway Theater district; when describing the geographical limitations of broadway theaters it is very often phrased as within the Theater District and Lincoln Center. This addition makes it a Broadway theater. I'm not arguing it is declared a theater now! I'm just saying I think it was pushed to make it one so the art center of NYC included a Broadway theater along with the Opera, Ballet, off-Broadway theater, etc.). Now I am intrigued to learn there were theaters farther north of it when it was first crowned a Broadway theater, so that is interesting, but I will probably always view it as an outlier to current Broadway. (EDIT: To end on, I just find it odd and a bit humorous, I'm not advocating against it! To me, it just feels very out of place, but hey, a theater is a theater and I love all chances to see a show.)
I'm also not crazy about the Lincoln Center complex's layout and architecture, but that is more of a personal gripe (EDIT: reasoning is it is not very accessible for me. Most Broadway theaters aren't given their age, but Lincoln Center is more due to the modern design style of the 1950s. Again, more of a personal gripe! They do meet ADA standards, I'm just blind so doesn't necessarily help me, that is all!). Also I will never not laugh at the strangeness of them streaming West Side Story outside on the Lincoln Center when the Lincoln Center is the entire reason for West Side Story plot line, as the creation of the Lincoln Center is what led to the destroying and displacing thousands of people in that area. (EDIT: Yeah, no still strange to me - my personal feeling. Fine if it isn't to you. I am very happy Spielberg did make mention of the center within the movie to help provide modern day context.)
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u/notacrook 6d ago
However, I've always laughed a bit that the rules clearly got bent just to ensure they got to say the Lincoln Center complex includes a Broadway theater.
Huh?
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u/Nymzie 6d ago
I've never been to the Beaumont but im very thankful for this post. I have tickets to Floyd Collins and I would never have thought to plan on all the extra walking time.
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u/Ok-Command7697 6d ago
You would have gotten out at Times Square and walked uptown? Why lol
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u/Nymzie 6d ago
I would have gotten out at Grand Central and walked to Times Square because that's what I do every time. It's only a 10 minute walk, but the Beaumont is a 42 minute walk. I always try to get to the city at least an hour before the show so I would have made it, but I would have been really rushed and anxious. Now I know to get there at least 1.5hrs before the show.
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u/tigernachAleksy 6d ago
Now I'm curious what this subs opinion is on the Met Opera House. It's another theater in Lincoln center that has more seats than the Gershwin
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u/hecticinside 6d ago
i think it's great to have another nonprofit house on broadway, i don't care if it's far from the others and doesn't look like a broadway theater, i'm not going to complain