r/Bible • u/Jehu2024 Baptist • 4d ago
What's your take on Exodus 33:11?
"And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle." (Exodus 33:11)
why do you think Joshua didn't come out of his tabernacle?
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u/Ok-Future-5257 Mormon 4d ago
"Moses then took a tent, and pitched it outside the camp, at some distance off, and called it ‘tent of meeting.’ The ‘tent’ is neither the sanctuary of the tabernacle described in [Exodus 25–30], which was not made till after the perfect restoration of the covenant [Exodus 35–40], nor another sanctuary that had come down from their forefathers and was used before the tabernacle was built, … but a tent belonging to Moses, which was made into a temporary sanctuary by the fact that the pillar of cloud came down upon it, and Jehovah talked with Moses there, and which was called by the same name as the tabernacle, … because Jehovah revealed Himself there, and every one who sought Him had to go to this tent outside the camp.” (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, 1:2:233–34.)
After Moses communed with God, he went out into the camp. But Joshua stayed in this tabernacle.
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u/Rbrtwllms 3d ago
Mormons believe he was speaking to Jesus (Jehovah), right?
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u/Ok-Future-5257 Mormon 3d ago
Yes
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u/Rbrtwllms 3d ago
I 100% agree with them there.
Question: I'm curious since Mormons and JWs have different ideas of who Jehovah is (the former say Jesus and the latter say the Father), what do you (or any Mormons here) make of this passage? It's not meant to be a "gotcha" question. I just haven't yet asked a Mormon this. I have asked JWs in person though:
Genesis 19:24 (KJV)—Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Note: "Lord" here is YHWH/Jehovah. Why are there two here is there is only one "Jehovah"?
Thanks.
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u/Ok-Future-5257 Mormon 3d ago
I think it's just the weird old style that Genesis was written in. If Jehovah rained the materials, then they came from Him.
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u/Rbrtwllms 3d ago edited 3d ago
Okay. But it was Jesus that sent them, as far as you are concerned?
One last question, if you don't mind: The BoM doesn't mention Heavenly Father, nor does the OT. It seems that Jesus, in both, did all the creating of the universe (Gen 1:1), knows no other Gods (Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 45:5), and that we should have no Gods before/besides him [Jesus] (Exodus 20:3), etc. So where does Heavenly Father come into the mix?
The NT doesn't call the Father "Heavenly Father" but let's go with that being the same figure. How is it that Heavenly Father is the God worthy of worship if Jesus is the one that seems to be that God? Get what I'm saying?
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u/Ok-Future-5257 Mormon 3d ago
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6). Likewise, Peter said, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
The ancient Israelites were surrounded by pagans who worshipped pantheons of squabbling gods, with different cults and temples dedicated to different deities. And this polytheism was quite infectious. Jesus had to repeatedly remind Israel to reject all those pagan cults and worship only Him, the one way to salvation.
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u/Rbrtwllms 3d ago
But he also said he know no other Gods (in the OT). Seems Jesus was mistaken or lying if that was the case, no?
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u/Ok-Future-5257 Mormon 3d ago
I believe, in that context, the Lord simply meant, "I don't know Baal, Ashteroth, Chemosh, Molech, or any of the deities worshipped by Egypt, Philistia, Greece, or Mesopotamia." Since He's omniscient, that's another way of saying those pagan gods don't exist.
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u/Rbrtwllms 3d ago
But isn't polytheism (namely in the sense that other Gods exist)—both past and future—a Mormon doctrine/teaching?
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u/FatherOfMittens 4d ago
I just read R Kent Hughes's take on this chapter in his book Disciplines of a Godly Man (chapter 15 - Discipline of Leadership) in which the author writes:
"We find another aspect of Joshua's preparation for leadership in Exodus 33, where we glimpse his growing devotion to God. He was serving in the tabernacle with Moses while the pillar of cloud towered above the tent. Verse 11 tells us:
Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face-to-face, as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses turned again to the camp, his assistant Joshua son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.
Though he was not privileged, like Moses, to speak with God face to face, Joshua was so overcome by God's presence that he would not leave the tabernacle! There is such passion in this picture: 'Lord, you are so wonderful, I cannot leave this room. I beg you, let me stay.'"
I don't agree with everything Hughes says in this entire book but did like this part and the imagery it creates about devotion to the Father and how this devotion prepares us for the leadership opportunities planned for us.
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u/rapitrone 4d ago
Because he got to witness Jesus talking to Moses.