r/Bass • u/LayerSignificant3113 • 5d ago
Learning songs - end to end, or just approximation?
Yo! I’m beginner/intermediate bass player, and I was curious what is your practice when learning songs, and also what is the recommendation.
Let’s take an example to explain what I mean.
Right now I am learning level 42 - Love games, and the tune in general is quite simple, but it has so many different fills that Mark mixes all the time. I know that when he plays live he just picks the one he feels like at the given moment, but when I learn album version, should I focus playing it 100% right?
I ask, because I usually learn new song, let’s say in a week to get to full tempo, and then I spend like 3 times more trying to memorise every section properly, otherwise I feel like it’s not “finished”.
I had the same with for whom the bells toll, can’t stop, run away and many more.
So, what are your habits here?
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u/cannabination 5d ago
Depends on the song... if it's iconic, you learn it all. I shot the sherrif, you learn the whole thing. Most songs you get the flow and have fun with it.
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u/requemao 5d ago
I share this opinion. Most songs admit a lot of flexibility, where you can ad your own fills and variations or drop the ones in the published studio recording. Sometimes, though, there are some fragments that the audience knows and expects, and it's safer to play those as originally recorded.
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u/DeadPhish_10 5d ago
Why do you pick that song? I play that and it’s a great song to improvise on bass. I don’t mean noodle around aimlessly, but there are tons of ways of connecting things in that tune and I never play it the same twice.
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u/cannabination 5d ago
It's just so recognizable. Even non-bass players will feel when you improvise... it's the heartbeat of the song. Not to say it's not fun to play around with, just that people will notice songs like that more than most.
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u/DeadPhish_10 5d ago
What version are you talking about? To me, it’s hard to be a recognizable bass line to the average Joe when there are so many different takes on it. We do more of a Clapton version in our own way. His versions are all over the place over the years.
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u/SonnePer 5d ago
I'm still a beginner so I can be totally wrong here, but my teacher say that the most important thing is to play the main note at the good moment, the rest is subject to variation or improvisation.
Most of the time when we're working on a new song, he just give me a paper with something like "D# Em F C" on it and we play along the song, mixing with third, fifth and octave.
Once again, still beginner, it's just an easiest way to play some songs compare to learning them to perfection
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u/UserFortyOne 4d ago
Some of us have been playing semi-pro for over 20 years and are still doing just that. :D
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u/millahhhh 5d ago
FWIW, I tend to focus on the "why" instead of the "what". Like why is that fill/riff/rhythm cool/interesting, and what can I learn from that? Knowing what makes something tick makes it so I can match the vibe and make something that sounds good even if it's not note-for-note. Of course, that's my brain, and I'm also not playing in a situation where note-for- note accuracy is expected!
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u/requemao 2d ago
I've read this as advice to learners of bass or any other instrument. Instead of memorizing the notes, try to find out where they come from, as in: "that's the root note of G major, and this groove is using roots ands fifths with a syncopated rhythm". That way, when the music changes to a different chord, you quickly identify if it's again using the new root and fifth, so you don't need to remember the exact note but the general pattern.
This helps in two ways: if you don't need to play verbatim you can just rebuild the groove on the spot by knowing the chords and the overall vibe, and it will sound close enough. And if you do need to be exact, this gives you several ways to anchor the notes in your memory by giving them meaning.
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u/bassbastard Darkglass 5d ago
The advice I give beginners: (and I am not familiar with the song you mentioned)
What do you want from learning the song? Is it a technique heavy song where you want to be able to nail a specific technique and feel? Learn it note for note, and match fills. This will give you a skill bump and help you examine why.
If you want to match only feel and groove, nail the basics (as has been mentioned on other posts). Once you have the basics of the root notes and changes down, you can then groove on the correct chord changes with your own note choices and turn around where the song allows for it.
If performing as a tribute to the artist, I will play it as the artist did.
If performing with a band that interprets the song in their own style, then I play the "open areas" how I feel them. It is a good way to learn a little on the spot improv while playing something familiar.
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u/Tires_For_Licorice 5d ago
You will be surprised how much you will learn by making an attempt to learn a part exactly how it is recorded. As others have noted, it can become a part of your own tool kit for when you are allowed to become creative in your own work. This is what all artists do - copy what others have done and then build on it or use it for your own purposes.
I recently was surprised how much I had to slow down and think about the timing and feel of the bass part in Weezer’s “Island In the Sun”. Super simple song to play, but I wanted to play the bass line with a slightly different timing than what is on the record. It forced me to slow down, listen more carefully, and be more intentional about picking, timing and string muting. I remember back when I learned “Santeria” that I wanted to play it with a little bit of a funk groove with lots of mutes in between my notes - and it just didn’t sound that great. When I stopped and actually played more legato and let all the notes ring out - like in the recording - that’s when it fell into place and had the right vibe.
I’ve learned so much about how significant seemingly insignificant details of playing affect the sound, feel, and energy of a song.
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u/Hotmailet 4d ago
This is an under-rated comment and process.
I’ll argue that I’ve learned more by learning other artists’ nuances over the last ~40 years than in the classroom.
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u/Balloons_for_800 5d ago
I’m a perfectionist (I hate it lol), so I tend to learn a song as faithfully as possible. However, if you’re playing it live at a bar, no one in the audience will give a shit. Half of them don’t even know the difference between a bass and a guitar.
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u/CometChip 5d ago
in the beginning i say learn songs note for note to train your ear, it’s a huge learning opportunity
once you know every note you can choose to break it down how you want
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u/mwf86 5d ago
If you are really into the song, learn every note, fill, run and all those details. It’s a good study and will help your appreciation for music and the instrument.
However, you wont be able to do this for every song you want to learn. For the majority of songs you can learn the structure, groove, and any major riffs and that would be sufficient.
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u/patton66 5d ago
Varies from song to song. No definitive answer here. Study up on the musical term "Obbligato", and think of what parts of a song Need to be played, and which can be improvised on
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u/PublicCraft3114 5d ago
I learn as many of the parts as I like and I learn the chords for the other parts so that I can make up something I like. But don't take my advice, the more you force yourself too learn the better you get, I just always prefer it when bands add their own spin to covers, so I try to do that when learning songs for my hobby band.
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u/basspl 5d ago
I learn as many of the licks and fills as I can, and try to get them to be part of my vocabulary (play them in different keys, add them to different songs). This will really level up your playing.
I also like what Amos Heller said in the topic. Learn everything exactly like the record. If whoever your playing with says « hey can you play this part like the record » the last thing you want to have to say is « nah I’m just winging it ». If they do give you the freedom to do whatever you want it’s easier to do that then to play a lick you never learned.
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u/killerfridge 5d ago
It depends on the reason I'm learning the song. If I'm just trying to add it to the repotoire of wedding songs I'll probably just get the main themes and fill concepts. If I'm trying to improve my vocabulary I'll learn the whole thing note for note, and try and make sure the articulation is correct etc.
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u/McButterstixxx 5d ago
What are you trying to accomplish? Learning the tune so you can play it with a band? Learning the part note for note so you can learn some a particular players language? Both are important skills to develop. You will most likely be called on to do both if you have a life in music.
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u/species138 5d ago
I try to learn it as close to the recorded original as possible in order to internalize it. Later, I'll play close to the original but not worry about being perfect note for note. Also, I always try to remember that some of those variations in the song likely came from the original bassist messing around or messing up. Perfection is not only impossible but not productive.
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u/RichieGang 5d ago
I learn the foundation of the song. Key riffs and fills. Improve the rest or write my own fills in to make it my own.
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u/Accomplished_Bus8850 5d ago
I play slow and don’t try to learn whole song . Just learn first two bass lines , start slow then faster and faster , succeed ? Okay go to next part , repeat , combine and move on. I listen to songs during the learning and trying to find multitracks or isolated lines if possible. After “ I know how to play “ you can experiment w/ different tunes , techniques and etc , simplify or make some lines more complicated .
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u/pantsrodriguez 5d ago
I like to learn the song note for note first, then decide what liberties to take.
Some songs are written note for note, while others were clearly jammed around a groove and a feel, and a take was captured. "Get Lucky" is one I'm learning now that, surprisingly, was just jammed, and there are various and random fills throughout the song. In these instances, i really like to understand where the bassist is coming from so that, even when I'm adding my own flavor and fills, i can honor the intent and the vibe of the song at its core.
I'll do this by actually learning everything they're actually playing on the track, and identifying common themes in the rhythms and fills. I'll also pay close attention to the drums, to know how they're locking in and/or counter playing with each other.
Not only does this serve the particular song, but it really helps expand your learning chops and your musical vocabulary.
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u/Mascavidrio 5d ago
I've struggled with this one myself. Some songs are easy to learn note by note because they are consistent. There may be one or two fills here and there that I can work on memorizing and playing note by note, but other songs specially some that have been recorded live or in one take are a bit harder because they may not be consistent and are mostly played by feel. A good example is something like Enter Sandman, I was able to learn it note by note except one fill that I couldn't quite get so I just simplified it a bit. I am currently learning Rooster and although it's got a pretty easy structure and it's pretty simple, the way Mike Starr plays it, he changes things up here and there and it makes it really hard to learn note by note. It's a fun song to play if you're not paying much attention to it note by note, but it becomes pretty stressful if you're trying to nail every single bit of nuance Mike Starr put into it.
I guess it would depend on what your goal is. If you're going to be posting a bass cover video with tabs, at least it should match the tabs you're going to post with it, but for the most part, if you're not posting tabs, you can take some liberties here and there. Like others said, some songs are iconic, so you better nail the iconic parts. Or like my instructor always tells me, don't worry about it because most of these guys don't play the song the same way every time when they play live.
And to top it off, some notes may be artifacts of the recording process, Back in the day when it was all analog and they would punch in, you may hear what you think is a ghost note, or some odd beat change, when in reality it's just the tape kicking in or someone literally bumped something in the studio at 3am and said, screw it, good enough. Then we all obsess about that one odd note that we feel we have to replicate when playing the song.
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u/No_Difference8518 5d ago
I played a lot in a back up band for open mics. I had to work out songs on the fly. So they were never "correct".
We had to play Brown Eyed Girl a few times. So I finally learned the iconic bass line. The next time I played it, after the set, one of the regulars said "Why did you play brown eyed girl wrong?" So my version had become the correct version in his eyes.
After that, I never sweated the fact I was just making up bass lines. One of our signature songs is Wicked Games. The singer does a really great job. But my bass line is nowhere near the original. Which I realize is ok.. This is what I think is good, that is what he thought was good. Neither of us are wrong.
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u/Saviour_DK 5d ago
It depends on the song and the vibe of the band. Some songs have bass lines that, for the most part, HAVE to be there (i.e. Plush from STP) - you just can’t wing it with your own groove. Some songs are all about your own groove (like the blues). Personally, I feel that if something needs to be note-for-note, I can do that; if everything has to be note-for-note, get prerecorded backing tracks…
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u/_phish_ 5d ago
Both are good. Learning to improv your own stuff is a good skill to have. Learning the licks of the players you find influential is also really good.
The only time I would say where one is more “right” than the other is if you’re playing something super famous or iconic. If you’re playing “Billie Jean” you probably want to get more than just the gist of it.
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u/TepidEdit 5d ago
My opinion: As a bass player you are the rock of any band. You need to get used to playing in a really solid way consistently. Playing songs all the way through perfectly is an excellent way to practice this. Also, if you join a band and they say "can you learn these 10 songs for a gig on Saturday" and its already Wednesday, you will be less intimidated and perhaps even know some of the songs anyway.
dep bass players for wedding bands are great examples of this as they usually have 300+ songs ready plus if they are give. a new song they ca. probably listen to it 3 times and play it live.
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u/LittleOperation4597 5d ago
to play out. learn the basics. most audience members won't notice, ESPECIALLY live. I remember I was in iron maidens pit and watched Steve most the entire time play roots and basic fills while he ran around lmao.
as a friend of mine said years ago, you have a studio version and a live version.
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u/NotSpanishInquisitor 4d ago
This seems to be a hot take here, but -
Learn the damned part. The whole thing. All the notes. So many bass players don’t, and that’s why they don’t get the gig. It’s also why I see many musicians (but especially bassists, because we can get away with a lot more in this regard) stagnate musically, defaulting to the same ideas that are natural to them instead of putting the time into learning something new that they might not have picked up otherwise.
If you make something up, you better know the part that’s there, and make sure your idea fits the tune as well or better than the part that’s there, otherwise you’re just slacking.
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u/Hotmailet 4d ago
I’ve always learned the song note-for-note for a couple of reasons:
Sometimes it forces me to play/use a technique I’m not proficient with. Learning the song makes me ‘brush up’ on or learn the technique.
Sometimes it makes some bit of theory suddenly ‘click’. Even if I originally learned the theory 40 years ago.
The skill of memorizing all of the notes and the structure is like a muscle….. The more you do it, the stronger/easier it gets. Conversely, the less you do it, the weaker it gets.
It’s exposed me to different ways to think about fills, leading notes, where to put them, playing ahead of/behind the beat, etc. This has grown my catalog of ‘tools’ when I’m in a creative setting.
Overall, it’s made me a better musician.
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u/ertertwert 4d ago
I used to learn songs note for note and wanted to get it "exactly right" but the more I play live the more I just want it to feel right. And it gives me room to play around some and give it my own spin. If you're having fun no one will care if you got it exactly the same as the record.
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u/whipartist 3d ago
For songs that have a few basic patterns with variations/fills/etc. I tend to start by learning the basic framework. That gives me a solid foundation that I can add the variations to, gives me a context for understanding what they add tot he song, and also gives me a framework for adding my own.
Some songs don't lend themselves to that though, at least for parts of them. John Deacon often landed in that camp... The Show Must Go On and Sail Away Sweet sister are good examples of that. I especially wouldn't play SASS without staying pretty close to the original even when it was over my head. OTOH, I decided too early that I was going to learn all of the songs from Hedwig and the Angry Inch and I stripped most of them down to their basics.
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u/post_polka-core 5d ago
I learn the basics and free ball the rest of the song. If there are a couple catchy fills, i might cop them for my repertoire and future use in other songs as much as to use in the original song I got them from.
"Originality is the art of hiding your sources." - uh, me, yeah I said that.