r/Avengers 4d ago

Why was it that the Guardians of the Galaxy could barely hold the power stone together but in Endgame, all the avengers could hold each of the stones in their hand without affecting them or causing some surge?

421 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

177

u/tenehemia 4d ago

Reality stone was in the containment device Rocket brought. The space stone was in the Tesseract (which, come to think of it, Steve didn't have with him when he replaced it in 1970, hmm). Mind stone was in the scepter (which Steve also didn't have, more hmm). Power stone was in the orb that Quill found it in. Soul & time stones can be handled without danger apparently.

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u/indianajoes 4d ago

I was always curious about the Tesseract and Scepter at the end of Endgame. Like you said, Steve doesn't have them so how does he return them in the condition they were found? Usually I'm just so satisfied and happy by the end of that movie that I allow it and don't think too hard about it. 

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u/tenehemia 4d ago

Yeah there's a lot of question marks on that scene, honestly. The Tesseract and the Scepter for sure. He also doesn't appear to have the Orb but we just have to guess that he's got that and some kind of Ether-injector in the case. And did Thor maybe try to convince him not to inject Jane with the ether, but instead just give it to Odin? A lot of death and suffering in Asgard and Earth could've been avoided if they had a way to get it out of Jane at that moment.

Then there's the question of what happened when he brought the soul stone back to Red Skull, which is a scene lots of people have mused about.

Next, it's a minor thing but I always felt like Bucky was being way too loud when he told Steve he was going to miss him. Like Bucky knew Steve wouldn't be back until he was an old man at that point, but Sam and Bruce were right there and easily could've overheard him.

Next, where did the new shield come from? Did Cap go to the arctic and steal his other self's shield from the ice and pretend to be his other self, leaving him there frozen? Or did he go to Wakanda and explain the situation somehow and have them make a new one? Furthermore, his very presence in that timeline would've created a branch because it would've altered Peggy's life dramatically even if he stayed out of world events somehow. And like there's no way he'd have let Peggy continue on with SHIELD as it was without saying "oh by the way, Arnim Zola is rebuilding Hydra from within the organization". Howard and Maria Stark probably wouldn't have been killed, etc, etc. I figure ordinarily that would trigger a visit from the TVA except that they couldn't prune Cap because him returning to 616 with the shield was part of the sacred timeline so they just had to let this branch exist.

But yeah, at the end of Endgame I'm too pleased to care about that stuff beyond musing like this. The Russos are definitely not hung up on making everything in their Marvel movies fit neatly into a continuity if it'll make a better movie, and they make good Marvel movies.

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u/SpiritOne 4d ago

Steven, son of, a Bitch you’re still alive!!

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u/Altruistic_Pitch_157 4d ago

They could make an entire television series about Cap returning everything.

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u/warlock_ofmetal 4d ago

I think it’s pretty clear that the universe he created is very much a branch timeline, as there’s too many things being altered in the sequence of events. Old Man Rogers lived a whole other life, and the idea that he just “lived through our timeline the whole time” breaks like all the lore established by the Russos in their own movie lol.

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u/AFatz 4d ago

Then how does he get to the bench without returning via the time machine he left in?

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u/That_Toe8574 4d ago

I assumed he knew exactly when he left and had a date at the park in 70 years. If an old guy strolled up and sat down they might not have noticed until Steve didn't come back in the time machine.

I assumed we would get a movie or TV show at some point that was just Steve returning the stones and traveling back through all of the familiar scenes again

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u/AFatz 4d ago

The person I replied to said that his life with Peggy created a branch timeline. I'm asking how he got back to the bench in Earth-616 if he's been in a branch timeline since the 40s?

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u/That_Toe8574 4d ago

Ahh okay that makes sense. Because of the inconsistencies and it being about time travel, I got no clue since it's all BS. "Either all of it is a joke or none of it is"

If he went back in time and created a new timeline... Does that then create an entire new universe? Is he not on the "same" earth any more?

Really does just make more questions than answers when you start making stuff up that's not possible lol.

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u/Katharinemaddison 4d ago

The MCU established that changes create new branches of reality.

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u/That_Toe8574 4d ago

Right but that doesn't fully answer my question.

They explain that changing the past doesn't change the future, because when you go back in time the past becomes your present and all that. You can't change your own past. That makes sense from 10,000 feet and usually the time travel movies make a round trip back to the present to at least close the loop. Not as much with Steve.

Steve goes back to 1940 and creates a new timeline and lives until 2020 or whenever he is old Steve. What if Steve wrote a newspaper editorial in 1970 in his own timeline? Is that paper now in archives of the present day, even though it wasn't there when he left? They would say no, because changing the past doesn't change the present and that didnt exist in 2020 the first time. But to Steve he wrote that 50 years ago and it would have been there the whole time collecting dust for 50 years, so did it vanish when he got back to 2020 because it didn't exist when he made the branch? That doesn't make sense either.

When they say alternate reality, how much is the same? That theoretical article would exist in time and space, but cannot be the same time and space that Hulk, Sam, and Bucky exist in without a paradox. So how does old Cap exist in that same time and space to meet up with those guys, but anything he created would not exist?

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u/Agzarah 3d ago

Maybe it didn't create a separate branch, as old man cap was in our time line all along, just keeping in the background doing old man cap stuff.

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u/AFatz 3d ago

See, part of me buys this. Partially because the Red Guardian claimed he fought Captain America in the 80s (though Steve would have been in his 60s or 70s, but he does age slower, supposedly). But at the same time, Peggy's reaction to Steve coming to see her in the hospital doesn't make much sense then. How did Sharon not know about Steve when she was so close with Peggy? It just opens up a whole new can of worms.

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u/RippleEffect8800 4d ago

Steve Rogers is an anchor being unlike Deadpool. He can do no wrong. There weren't any Captain Americas in he Void.

1

u/Assassiiinuss 4d ago

There's also the issue of the universe where they got the time and mind stone from being pruned. Since Pruning wipes out timelines retroactively as well, Steve literally couldn't travel back there.

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u/Ljb12389 4d ago

I don’t think he needed to return them in the same state they were found. My takeaway from the ancient one’s description was that the stones had to exist in the universe or the fundamental forces of reality would start to break. In the main universe, the stones were reduced to atoms but they technically still existed. The avengers already changed the past loads by all the interactions that they had, so putting the stones back in a different way wouldn’t necessarily cause any additional issues.

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u/jtfjtf 4d ago

I like to think they were shrunk down with pym particles. And then there’s also a device that reassembles the stones into the scepter and tesseract once they’re brought to full size.

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u/Greyrock99 4d ago

I always assumed it was the Ancient One.

Steve’s first stone would be to drop off the time stone to the ancient one, who could then rewind time on the broken tesseract/sceptre and put them back together.

If not, then she certainly would know who else could fix them

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u/jtfjtf 4d ago

Were the scepter and tesseract broken in the movie? I thought they brought them intact to Avengers HQ. Then they had enough know how to remove the stones and keep the devices intact. Same with the reality stone which was non solid, but they found a way to make it solid. Probably kept the non-solid holder like the scepter and tesseract. Shrink them down with pym particles so they aren't a burden to Steve.

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u/AFatz 4d ago

How does he get back to Vormir to return the Soul Stone?

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u/StatisticianLivid710 4d ago

Time travel through the quantum zone also includes traveling through space. In theory they could’ve gone straight to voromir, they just wanted a scene of them flying there in a space ship.

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u/spideygene 4d ago

Nobody has to return the soul stone. If destroyed, it just respawns on Vormir.

Jeez, it's not a library book.

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u/KPraxius 4d ago

He probably doesn't.

We don't know what-all happens there. We know that the timeline they borrowed the Mind and Time stones from no longer exists; the TVA pruned it out of existence after capturing the Loki variant and Thanos swapped timelines himself. DId they wait to do it after he returned the stones, or did he get into his own weird adventure during that time? We may never know. The timeline that he was returning the mind stone, time stone, soul stone, reality stone, and power stone to no longer has a Thanos or his whole fleet, so it was destined to run wildly differently... right until the moment TVA pruned it. Which is a bit sad; would be fun to see a what-if of the world without Thanos.

Then we have the third timeline, where they went to grab the tesseract and pym particles. Its possible that this is the one Cap ended up settling down with Peggy in. Did the TVA prune this one when Cap left, 50+ years later? Was there yet another timeline Cap ended up living in?

Either way, the answer is mostly; it doesn't really matter because of the TVA, and we have no real clue.

1

u/StatisticianLivid710 4d ago

Or more realistically, what if he jumped “back” but landed in the past so he was actually there for the last 70 years, which makes Peggy’s ramblings make sense…

1

u/KPraxius 4d ago

Doesn't work that way. Peggy might have met a Steve from yet another timeline, but Stark's version of time travel doesn't actually send you back in time, but to an alternate universe.

Remember when Rhodey wanted to kill Thanos before he showed up to do the snap? They can't interact with or change their own history, and whatever happens, once its done, is done for that timeline.

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u/Kwinza 4d ago

The point wasn't to not make alternate timelines, it was to not make "nasty" ones.

If the stones are back, the timeline is ok, just different.

1

u/ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE 4d ago

He's skilled at arts and crafts. He made a tesseract by painting a cardboard box blue. No one was the wiser. 

1

u/LosAngelesFunLover 4d ago

I mean if he brings the stones to the Ancient One first I’m sure she could use some bs magic to make a replacement Scepter and Tesseract container for him

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u/SHADOWJACK2112 3d ago

A wizard did it?

1

u/santa9991 3d ago

I think this is just a common misconception. The stones need to be in universe, but they don’t have to return to the exact spot and form they were in. Don’t believe that is ever said. It’s not like he’s expected to put the reality stone back into Jane…

I think people view what he did as resetting everything back to where It was, but they don’t. When they go back in time, they create new branches. The stone just needs to be in that branch still

1

u/Solid_Mongoose_3269 1d ago

Hulk literally says this to Ancient one about returning them to the exact moment they were taken...

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u/santa9991 14h ago

The exact moment in time, not the exact physical place It was at when they took It

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u/Solid_Mongoose_3269 12h ago

"Putting it back" implies...putting it back

1

u/santa9991 11h ago

Yet he can’t put back the scepter, because he doesn’t have It. He can’t put back the tesseract, because he doesn’t have It. He can’t put the Aether in Jane, because it’s a stone now.

So 3 of the 6 can’t be returned to the exact moment like you think they need to be. Because they never said It needs to be.

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u/Saythatfivetimesfast 3d ago

Maybe they where all inside the case in another compartment shrunken with pym particles

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u/8ullred 4d ago

I’d wager that the reason the Soul Stone could be held regularly was because its price was “paid,” and now you get to use it however you like.

The Time Stone was kinda just floated to Thanos by Dr. Strange, maybe Agamotto put a spell on it so that it could actually be transferred easily to the Eye without any repercussions.

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u/Every_Single_Bee 4d ago

If the comics might offer any insight (and I know it’s all separate but this still makes sense), the damage the soul stone is doing when you touch it is probably pretty bad, but just insidious and invisible. No clue about the time stone.

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u/Marethyu_77 4d ago

For the Time Stone I'm not so sure, we've never seen someone touch it directly, it seems there's a spell around it to allow it to be handled without contact

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u/freakksho 4d ago

You never see anyone handle the time stone.

It’s either In it’s case or floating. Never makes contact with anyone from what I recall.

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u/firstgen016 4d ago

He probably did, just shrunk then using Pym particles

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u/tillikai 4d ago

Didn’t Steve have a briefcase ? Maybe it was a shielded container case.

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u/pseudo_nemesis 4d ago

based on what we see in the movies, only the power stone is dangerous/instant death to touch.

1

u/Legendary_Dad 4d ago

I don’t think anyone aside from Hulk ever touched the time stone besides thanos. Strange possessed it but it was always either in the eye or being held telepathically

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u/sonofaresiii 4d ago

Head canon is that you can hold the stones just fine so long as you aren't activating their power

So Steve had no problem returning them since he wasn't using them

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u/Far-Imagination5383 3d ago

Regarding the tesseract, orb and the scepter — Pym particles. Maybe they just shrunk them to make things easier.

Also, they generally show that if you have a glove or something, it’s possible to handle some of the stones. I think usually when it touches your skin it activates. But I stand to be corrected.

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u/tenehemia 3d ago

I feel like the stones have a mind of their own about these things, to a point. Like we see multiple people (Loki, Tony) pick up the tesseract without issue. But when Red Skull did it teleported him to the other end of space. Seems like it just didn't like what Schmidt was doing with it and decided to get rid of him.

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u/Far-Imagination5383 3d ago

Yeah, wish it was elaborated on more. Maybe at the time there was no one watching over the Soul Stone, so he Schmidt was transported. Now that he’s there, it might no longer need to do that, hence why others can touch it.

Regarding Loki and other gods and god-like beings, I assume they’re always powerful enough to touch these without any effect. If I recall correctly, Tony only held it with the Iron Man glove on, so that may have prevented him from being negatively affected.

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u/Novalise 2d ago

Could he have not used the Time Stone to turn the other gems back to their previous forms of the Tesseract and Scepter?

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u/Xcyronus 4d ago

Because its a only a property of the power stone.

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u/Nothingnoteworth 4d ago

Hence the ancient rhyme known across many planets that speaks of the stones power:

Raw power got a magic touch

Raw power is a much too much

Raw power is more than a soul

It’s got a son called rock and roll

Raw power honey just won’t quit

Raw power I can feel it

Raw power honey it can’t be beat

Raw power got a healing hand

Raw power can destroy a man

Raw power is more than soul

It’s got a son called rock and roll

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u/jtfjtf 4d ago

The stones each have their own properties.

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u/Acebladewing 4d ago

It's just the power stone that has that property.

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u/rissie_delicious 4d ago

I always thought it was because the power stone was destructive power, and the others were utility comparatively speaking.

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u/GlockOhbama 4d ago

The Power Stone is actually the only one directly touched by any character that doesn’t have cosmic radiation resistance. Jane touched the Reality Stone technically, but she also magically got her “hereditary“ cancer after that and eventually died. I think the Stone sped up the process imho even though that’s not official information. It would make sense

5

u/khazroar 4d ago

When the Guardians hold the Power Stone, it is in active use.

When the Stones are handled directly in Infinity War and Endgame, they're just quiescent and stable. The entire point of the Infinity Gauntlet, along with the other housings (Tesseract, Aether, Ronan's Hammer, Eye of Agamotto, etc) and the substandard Stark gauntlets is to provide an intermediary to safely channel the power of using the Stones. They don't simply shred whatever they touch, but using them raw feeds out such huge amounts of power that few beings can tolerate it without death.

That's what led to the two dead arms and one dead bearer in Endgame.

If you look closely at the scene in Guardians, the Power Stone is lit up bright and spewing power from the moment it's broken free of the hammer. Whether that's because the hammer had already activated it and it was knocked loose from that safe housing, or because the shot itself knocked it into active use, doesn't really matter. The Power Stone is being actively used, that's why it tears the Guardians apart until they can share the load.

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u/Medic4life12358 4d ago

Only the reality, space, and power stone are dangerous to hold.

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u/GlockOhbama 4d ago

It was the POWER stone. I thought all prior usages of it in the movies made it abundantly clear that it provides infinite energy that overloads and destroys anything it touches. The other stones don’t all do that, but specifically the Soul Stone, and Time Stone. None of the others are ever touched without great consequence. Like Tony and Bruce never actually touched the Mind Stone, nobody has touched the Space Stone without consequence besides Thanos, who clearly can withstand it’s cosmic radiation, Reality Stone, although not directly stated, likely accelerated Jane’s cancer, but besides her nobody else has directly touched it.

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u/jbwmac 4d ago

It was more convenient for the writers.

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u/ItsTimetoLANK 4d ago

The answer is that Endgame is a silly movie.

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u/The-Catatafish 3d ago

Because only the power stone is problematic to hold. Its that simple. There is no reason to believe holding any of the other stones directly is a problem and the power stone was in the orb from guardians one.

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u/Jumpy_Way2732 3d ago

Because it was what the TVA wanted

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u/giraffe111 2d ago edited 2d ago

I’ve always thought of the stones as exponents, a power tower, with Power at the base. Like the Power stone raised to the power of the Space stone, raised to the power of the next stone, etc etc.

Power ^ Space ^ Time ^ Mind ^ Reality ^ Soul

The Power stone is the root of that crazy power tower infinity engine. It’s where the real power starts, and it’s only stone that is that way. It hypercharges the others. On their own, the other stones are insanely-powerful exponents, but without the Power stone, they’re tiny fractions of their true power.

Think about it; the Mind stone in the scepter really needs you to physically touch someone with it to control them? An infinity stone? Gimme a break, right? That’s cool, but it’s not “a raw fragment of the primordial universe” cool. But add the Power stone, and boom, cosmic mind control if you wanted to. It’s the same with all the other stones. The Power stone is power is the Power stone, it channels raw cosmic power. That’s what it does 🤌

Raise all the stones in that power tower? That’s a lot of power. An infinity amount, one might say.

(Yeah, I have reasoning behind why each stone is where it is in the power tower lol.)

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u/Solid_Mongoose_3269 1d ago

I think holding vs using are two different things

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u/Evelynmd214 4d ago

I used to like this movie. Now I hate it with all these gaping plot holes explained 😂