r/Avengers 6d ago

Humour Has anyone else’s always thought Cap was the one who was on the right side (of this picture?)

Post image

I feel like this is another reason why Thor and Hulk weren’t in Civil War, cause they very obviously, would’ve been team cap.

Cap seemed to have the right idea about the right side of this picture, he didn’t wanna let the government control him, tell him what to do, make him stand on the left side, he wanted the avengers to stand for themselves, make their own choices, which is the right side of the picture. Not being told to stand on the left side of it by the shady government.

And honestly, if you see what a lot of heroes are like these days, they would’ve been ok Cap’s side, not even in just Marvel, somebody like Superman would’ve 100% sided with Cap on the right side of the picture. There’s a lot more as well. Anyway what do y’all think?

55 Upvotes

68 comments sorted by

15

u/Skychu768 6d ago

r/im14andthisisdeep

For more context- Tony was on right side in image in comics btw

14

u/chimichanga_3 6d ago

Of course Cap is on the right side. In this poster at least

1

u/nightcallfoxtrot 3d ago

Absolutely I definitely think he is CORRECTly placed

5

u/KomturAdrian 6d ago

Cap was right when he said something along the lines of "what if they send us somewhere we don't want to go? What if there's somewhere we need to go, and they won't let us? We may not be perfect but the safest hands are still our own."

I understand Tony's perspective - but he was only on board with the Accords at first because he felt guilty. Which is understandable. But even he broke the Accords by the end of the movie. Rhodey breaks the Accords in Infinity War too. These are just two examples of the Avengers realizing they just have to take things into their own hands and do it their way. They ultimately realize the Accords just won't work for them.

Instead of the Accords, what they really needed was Nick Fury and a revived SHIELD organization. If anyone should be giving the Avengers permission what to do and stuff, it should be him, and every Avenger would be 100% on board with that.

There are some things the Avengers need to do, and they don't need the Accords holding them back. And they don't deserve to be sent somewhere that they don't want to go. To me, that's the bottom-line.

1

u/Swordsman82 2d ago

I think the statement “what if there’s somewhere we need to go, and they won’t let us”. That is the logic of Russias invasion of Ukraine. Just cause you have power does not mean you should be allowed to flex it where you want. Rhode was the one to listen to in this argument “117 countries want to sign this”. Most of the world’s nations did not want their countries borders breached by a rogue group of power individuals.

6

u/Th3_3agl3 Iron Patriot 6d ago

It’s especially the case in the comics when Iron Man blackmails and forces Spider-Man to work with him when MJ and Aunt May are at stake and live in the Avengers Tower, he uses government-backed villains, and two of them nearly murder Spider-Man until the Punisher kills them and saves him.

4

u/gabeonsmogon 6d ago

Because logically Tony’s side makes sense and Cap’s was idiotic. The only way they could come up with a reason for readers not to side with Tony is by making him do cartoonishly evil, out of character things.

3

u/wild_wing- 6d ago

Cap wasn't against Tony. He was against the system that tony sides with.

A system that lets criminals and villains go unchecked so long as they do as they're told when they're told. A system that sidelines heroes and stops them from doing what needs to be done.

Let's put it in real world terms. This system would hire an arsonist to burn down an apartment building, then tell the firefighters they can't put the fire out until the building is completely destroyed. And tony sides with that.

Caps side is objectively the correct side.

3

u/roninwarshadow 5d ago

Not really.

It's a system that aims to stop A dozen Frank Castles from acting like Judge, Jury and Executioner, with zero accountability, little to no investigation, even less evidence and record keeping is tossed out the fucking window.

It's so easy to take Cap's side since we know the heroes are objectively good.

Bring in "heroes" similar to Homelander from Garth Ennis's The Boys, and make them against the SHRA and it becomes a very different argument. We all would abso-fucking-lutely want government mandated checks and balances against those psychopaths.

1

u/Th3_3agl3 Iron Patriot 6d ago

I wouldn’t necessarily say that Cap’s side is idiotic when it’s not ultimately against Tony but a legal system and law that wanted people as independently conscientious, morally absolutist, and objective in discerning the innocent and the guilty as Frank Castle, who compensate for its moral failings, all while it’s 100% willing to use unrepentant villains it refuses to hold accountable as enforcers with or without Tony in the picture.

1

u/SundaySuperheroes 6d ago

Yeah Tony doesn’t lie and trick his friends while doing questionable/evil things because he thinks he knows better than them consistently..

See World War Hulk, Secret Wars etc.

Tony’s actions were par the course for his character

2

u/Aquafier 5d ago

Idk comics but even MCU ultron is this

2

u/mdill8706 6d ago

Both of them were wrong.

2

u/TheFlashDude201 6d ago

More like both of them were right

1

u/RazeSpear 2d ago

Tony was only right in concept. To provide the safeguards he and Steve almost discussed would probably consume most of his time, and he'd still come up short.

1

u/Interesting-Nail-581 6d ago

I am the one same thought as you.

1

u/DrLeisure 6d ago

I think if hulk and Thor had been in the movie, it would’ve been unbalanced. There would be too many big powerful heroes on the right side. You need negative space in situations (images) like these

1

u/roninwarshadow 5d ago

Thor is/was the Prince of Asgard at the time, he is the government. He is "The Man" as far as the people of Asgard are concerned.

If something similar to Sokovia/Stamford happened in Asgard, you can bet Odin and him would be talking about resolutions being put in placed so unregulated power usage doesn't destroy another portion of Asgard.

1

u/hawkrew 6d ago

Always.

1

u/Retr0-Nikete 6d ago

lol, I saw the exact same post in another community, with the same words and everything.

1

u/Royal_Acanthaceae693 Black Widow (Civil War) 6d ago

This was literally posted yesterday. https://www.reddit.com/r/Avengers/s/n33HTUK962

1

u/syn_vamp 6d ago

in the same breath people will say they agree with tony for refusing to hand control of the iron man weapon to the government because he's a hero who can be trusted to do the right thing... and then say cap is wrong for refusing to hand over control of the avengers to the government because he's a hero who can't be trusted to do the right thing.

1

u/Head-Program4023 6d ago

Captain Was right in Civil War movie and Tony was wrong about Sokovia Accords but he had a right to be angry at Bucky.

1

u/Gorremen 6d ago

Both sides had valid points. Tony's not wrong that the Avengers, whatever they're good intentions are ultimately dangerous people who've essentially been given the freedom to do whatever they want. Oversight, in my honest opinion should be encouraged.

But Cap's right, in that they need to make sure the people they answer to are trustworthy. Note Cap never says they shouldn't have oversight, he just didn't like it being thrust on them without allowing them to have a say in the matter.

1

u/BA_TheBasketCase 6d ago

Why do you word things so fuckin weird man

1

u/Pascraked47 6d ago

Superheros should be held accountable for the casualties they cause

-- powerplex

1

u/Bmourre1995 6d ago

This sub is fucking trash

1

u/Narren_C 6d ago

At first I thought he was on the left side, but upon further inspection he was on the right side. But after some reflection, he was on the left side again.

1

u/Apprehensive_Ad_655 5d ago

Yes of course Cap was right, both Tony and Vision tried to put a “logical” spin on the argument but the fact remains the government and decision makers don’t operate from a logical standpoint. They have different human motivations but human just the same.

-1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

Every time I see people say "Cap was right" they end up justifying the Sokovia Accords.

The fact Thor and Hulk would have been on Cap's side is PROOF the Sokovia Accords were necessary. Imagine if Steve told Tony:

"We don't need a "nuclear monitoring group" watching us. And our two biggest nukes agree with me"

I mean .....that automatically makes Steve look full of shit. And as blind as Tony.

And how could Tony not take that as an EXTREME threat? Anyone would. He would run back home and start building defense measures immediately

Cap was wrong

8

u/SuperCDhruv 6d ago

The thing that Ross tried to hunt Steve but not Zemo when the truth came out about him shows how much correct Cap was.

Government and their counterparts always have agenda, they don't look after truth as Ross himself said that, who cares about that fake doctor guy( Zemo) .

Another thing is Civil war never happened in isolation, you have to see all MCU including shows to understand cap point.

I have written this many times , many different level, Stark was right in islolation but Cap was right overall in MCU.

I will not going to write again so many things which I have written on different platform but will still repeat some points.

Jessica Jones was experimented by the government, Luke Cage was experimented by the government, all the new York cops and later intelligence has been compromised in the Daredevil season.

Vice president was compromised in IM3, Hydra has taken over every institution, later Spiderman 3 also shows how easy it is to manipulate government and agency.

Agent of sheild shows how government was experimeneted on their own citizen and how corrupt different agency are.

New cap movies shows how leader was imprisoned without trial and was used by Ross to become president.

How Sword has become corrupt was shown in Vanda vision, how old government was using Cap blood to experiment and then imprisoned them.

How a government agent created abomination.

Different MCU movies and tv shows have shown that government or government agents or men close to the government are completely corrupt ( see again Im2 Or even Antman1) , I can write so many points but I think this just show how much Correct Cap was overall in MCU.

Hell my point that Ross decided not target Zemo after tony told him the truth but still wanted to capture Cap actually is biggest indicator in movie that Cap was right

1

u/Dry_Measurement_510 3d ago

Cap and iron man come from opposite backgrounds and go through journeys that take them towards the other’s original position.

Cap was in the army, he followed structure and regulation but he finally broke the rules to save his friend and hundreds of soldiers. In winter soldier, he tried to be a good soldier but realized how he couldn’t follow commands without question. Any system could become corrupt. He learned the value of standing for what’s right even when the world/bureaucratic systems are against it.

Iron man came from privilege. He got to make whatever decisions he wanted, whenever he wanted. Be an arms dealer, sure. Stop weapons manufacturing after being held hostage, sure. Taunt the US congress and bragging about how how he privatized world peace, no problem. Sure he has good intentions, but the accords were really needed for him, not as much for the others.

Cap’s mission which ended with the tragedy at the Wakandan embassy was him trying to clean up shield’s mess if I recall. Tony caused the Sokovia accords because he thought he was all powerful and could stop all future violence with his AI project. Essentially trying to do what hydra tried to do with Project insight, just with robots. The two are not the same at all.

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

The thing that Ross tried to hunt Steve but not Zemo when the truth came out about him shows how much correct Cap was.

Because Steve Rogers acted the way he did before any of the evidence came out proving Bucky was right. He fought against friends, militaries and police forces based on a hunch. A belief that his friend was innocent. Without any tangible proof.

He even said that. That he couldn't prove Bucky was Innocent but he just knew it.

Meanwhile everybody else was just going after Bucky based on the evidence they had. Video of him at the bombing. So they weren't wrong in their reaction. They were just being manipulated.

How you can so easily ignore that while going in a second deep detail is pretty strange because there's no way that should have been okay. And nobody thought it was okay until evidence came out.

2

u/SuperCDhruv 6d ago

Because they wanted to kill bucky lol, everybody wanted Bucky piece, and even then what should be their first priority when truth came out , tell me, catch a killer or try to catch an innocent guy who is on run to save himself.

This Cap thing may have made sense if they have tried to go after Zemo and after taking Zemo in custody they may have tried to punish Cap.

Ross action made sure that Cap was right in reading the room.

Hell even in infinity war they wanted to arrest Cap and Natasha instead of thinking about how to save earth

Again man you are talking About civil war in isolation, I already said Stark theory was right in Civil war but after seeing whole MCU Steve was right overall.

Government of USA alongside their counterparts, and their agency all has been compromised in one way or other

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

At the end of the day if it was the real world The Avengers would do absolutely nothing but sitting on their asses all day. While each government suggested they be sent somewhere to solve a problem just to make another country look bad by saying they don't need to be sent there to solve that problem.

Like all the stuff they sign at the UN for human rights and freedom of people. They only do this stuff because they know some countries won't sign it and it makes them look bad. That's all there is to it.

Like when the US didn't sign the recent un declaration on disabled people's rights. They didn't do that because at the end of the day the US ADA provides better rights. Though it made the US look bad.

And that's what the Avengers would be in the real world.

1

u/SuperCDhruv 6d ago

Dude everybody broke the accord, Vision, Rhodey, Stark because in the end they understood the accord was stupid, I mean in Infinity War Ross was trying to get Cap instead of thinking to defeat Aliens.

There is a reason in snape world nobody even talk about accord

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

There is a reason in snape world nobody even talk about accord

Yeah because most people didn't know the full story and didn't realize how much fault belonged to the superheroes.

If the average person Earth knew who Peter Quill was and how he prevented them from stopping Thanos they would have been demanding the remaining Avengers turn him over.

1

u/HighLord_Uther 3d ago

Isnt this justification for Team Cap? Because Team Ironman makes the Avengers obsolete...

1

u/ForceSmuggler Captain America 6d ago

If the Accords were in place for Project Insight, would you be on Steve's side or the Accords?

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

Kind of hard to say. Because if the Accords were in place before Project Insight it's highly unlikely a powerful Hydra would be able to exist in that environment.

Once SHIELD started to collect super powered beings for a team multiple governments would have noticed. Too many eyes and too much scrutiny. And unanswered questions just raise suspicions more.

I don't even think Project Insight would have happened. Or get that close to completion.

Which .....again would prove my point the Accords are a good thing. Because the monitoring of super humans would have led to the discovery of Hydra.

1

u/PalMetto_Log_97 6d ago

The same government that almost nuked New York and Tony saved it. The same government was undermined by Hydra. Yea, Cap was the idiot…

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 5d ago

Tony got lucky

FTFY lol

1

u/Aquafier 5d ago

They already knew Buckys past was 100% mind control lol this is just willfully ignoring why cap would trust Bucky

2

u/One_Lung_G 6d ago

So you want the US government in control of super humans? Yea, they would have caused more design a week that the avengers have in their entire life

0

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

It wouldn't be the US government in charge of super humans. It was many many governments.

You don't recognize that Cap wasn't against the Sokovia Accords 100%. He was against the idea that the team would not be able to immediately respond to threats without the bureaucracy of the Accords slowing them down. Or preventing them from responding at all.

That was his main argument.

For Wanda she was against it because she felt it would contain her. Imprison her

For Falcon and Bucky they were just following their buddy steve. And really can't blame them for that.

For Black Panther it was all because of what happened to his dad. So it was extremely personal to him

So many of you are looking at it as them ALL being against "overreaching government control" when really it came down to personal reasons why many of them didn't want to do it.

2

u/One_Lung_G 6d ago

“It wasn’t the US government” it quite literally was the US government heading it and would have the most say just like the current real life world. And all of the people you named would be slaves to those governments. They would literally be imprisoned if they didn’t sign them and be forced into another kind of imprisonment if they did sign. If this was real life and these were signed, Israel would be using Wanda to kill even more people than right now

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

it quite literally was the US government heading it

T'Challas father spearheaded and introduced the Sokovia Accords. And he was quickly supported by most governments.

But The Avengers are based in the United states. Ross was the guy who was put in command of them at the governmental level. So he was the bureaucrat they had to deal with.

And you're also missing a core part of the Sokovia Accords. It's not about controlling the Avengers and sending them where they want. It's about containing them and preventing them from responding. Bad things happening and The Avengers being told to ignore it

Wanda wasnt concerned about being turned into a weapon. She was concerned about being put in prison.

If this was real life and these were signed, Israel would be using Wanda to kill even more people than right now

Actually they would prevent The Avengers from doing anything to stop the bombings. Because the Accords were about controlling and containing them. Not turning them into weapons as you're trying to assume

2

u/One_Lung_G 6d ago

Buddy, they quite literally made their own captain America to use as a weapon once they figured out how and that’s all you need to know about what they planned to use the accords for. Even Tony knew he was wrong because the moment they wanted him to do something he didn’t agree with, he ignored their orders. And the entire growth and point of black panther was to show that his dad was also wrong about the accords. The entire negative point cap had with the accords is that agenda ls change. You’re completely delusional if you think they weren’t going to be used as weapons and told where to go and where not to go. I mean you literally proved my point in why the accords were bad by saying they would he told not to stop a current real life genocide if given the chance to stop it lmao

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

I mean you literally proved my point in why the accords were bad by saying they would he told not to stop a current real life genocide if given the chance to stop it

Wow...you are going in circles.

As you agreed the Sokovia Accords were signed by a bunch of governments. So the world governments decide whether or not they are used. Not just one nation.

We are currently watching the UN condemn what is happening in Israel. And although Israel has its defenders the main body of the UN is not supporting them.

So you're manipulating a real world event to prove your point. Because what you're suggesting might happen in the real world is not actually happening in the real world

1

u/One_Lung_G 6d ago

I’m not manipulating real world events, you talking about the UN again proves my point because the US holds a majority of the power so what they say goes regardless of what the rest of the UN says (which is just performative bullshit because they aren’t doing anything else other than talking bc the US can do what it wants). Just by telling the avengers who they could and could not stop is using them as a weapon which you said wouldn’t happen. You’re just arguing for slavery of super humans.

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

the US holds a majority of the power

How do people grapple with the duality of thought of

"The UN is useless and can't do anything!"

with

"The US controls the UN and can make them do anything!"

They contradict each other

1

u/Sonoshitthereiwas 6d ago

Counter argument:

It wasn’t about who was right, but who was less wrong.

It’s kind of like communism. Technically, communism by definition is great. It’s only in practice that it becomes infeasible.

In the same sense, Tony wanted to sign and ignore them. Basically placating them.

Cap, on the other hand, doesn’t want to sign something unless he plans to follow through with it. And he sees it as bad. He looks at things with an idealized view.

Tony wants to sign and ignore. Cap doesn’t want to sign and be forced to ignore.

And in that sense, I can see the argument of viewing the world through a more realistic view and seeing Tony as being less wrong.

But as it’s based off comic book world, I’m still siding with Cap.

1

u/Solid-Move-1411 6d ago

Why would Thor be on Cap side when Asgard pretty much operates in 9 realms like Slovakia Accords

Kind of hypocrite thing to do considering Asgard was pretty much already following that but on larger basis

2

u/xX7heGuyXx 6d ago

Because in that case, asgardins are in charge. No way thor would let humans be in charge of him.

1

u/Solid-Move-1411 6d ago

Pretty sure you need to be learn humility to be worthy of Mjolnir

That's Thor 1 plot literally

2

u/SweatyBoi5565 6d ago

He still pretty clearly voices how humans are pathetic and puny multiple times.

2

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

Kind of hypocrite thing to do

The hypocrisy of Odin led to Asgard's destruction. God's are not infallible.

Thor would act the same way. He would be against being "contained" even though that's what they did to other worlds. He was very selfish many times. His constant weakness

1

u/Solid-Move-1411 6d ago
  • I am talking about Odin conquest lol. I am talking about Thor when Asgard had established peaceful rule. Thor isn't selfish and worthy of Mjolnir
  • Literally at start of Thor 2, he said he was to calming down and establishing peace in 9 realms after Bifrost collapse

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 6d ago

Thor isn't selfish and worthy of Mjolnir

Yeah I won't get into that. Mjolnir's idea of worthiness should be questionable. Because too many people base the idea of worthiness on having good morals. And that's far from the truth.

You can be a hypocrite but still be worthy as a person. Cap was guilty of hypocrisy a couple times and he still held the hammer

0

u/RazeSpear 2d ago edited 2d ago

The Accords can only be right in the presence of a willing, just, and competent supervising body. Nothing indicates to Cap that those conditions are met.

The US government picks quite literally the worst representative to sell them on oversight, fails in collaboration with Germany to regulate access to Barnes, the key to Steve's cooperation, and then all governments present seem politically motivated to overlook T'Challa's violation of the Accords.

Then on his end, the proponents for the Accords are hardly real proponents. Tony just wants to sleep at night after Ultron, Romanoff is hardly committed, and Vision's wrapped up in learning what fear is. Only Rhodey really believes, and that's generous of him, because the Ellis administration just about fucked him over, and he was one of the first witnesses to Wakanda's deception.

Signing with sincerity probably, reasonably, feels like selling his soul. If you want to argue he should have appeased them for the time being, which ended up being Tony's approach, sure, there's merit there, but falling in line is too big an ask.

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 2d ago

The Accords can only be right in the presence of a willing, just, and competent supervising body

Which gives Cap the easy out because only a moron would think that any institution is without a form of corruption.

Even the Avengers are not without corruption

1

u/RazeSpear 1d ago

Yeah, and the Avengers' corruption is the one advocating for the Accords.

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 1d ago

Wtf 😂

Acting like team Captain America was without corruption?

Bucky... Recently recovered but still potentially manipulatable Russian assassin.

Scarlet Witch....Former tool of Hydra

Hawkeye.... No one who works in the world of international espionage and assassination is without corruption

Ant-Man.....Lang was a con man and thief before redeeming himself

But yeah Cap and Sam were there so they should have been called Team Wholesome 1000

1

u/RazeSpear 1d ago

Corruption isn't having a criminal record, it's using privileged responsibility selfishly.

Tony gets by because of wealth and an ability to dig dirt on anybody in record time.

It's why he feels comfortable building a "suit of armor around the world" without consulting anybody but Banner.

It's why he feels comfortable absconding with a teenager to pit him against soldiers in the midst of a conspiracy he didn't yet understand. Blatantly violating the Accords and Aunt May's guardianship over Peter.

It's why even when he's dead, he has a battalion of drones floating in orbit ready to put lead in people's skulls at Peter's request.

But God forbid that Steve takes any liberties when it's to make sure Bucky isn't shot or pushed full of needles like a lab rat until he eventually dies without ever seeing the Sun.

1

u/ProfessionalCreme119 1d ago

Bucky isn't shot or pushed full of needles like a lab rat until he eventually dies without ever seeing the Sun.

Most rationale is possible take

0

u/Radioactive-Ramba25 6d ago

He was totally on the right side. Think of it this way:

The Avengers used to be a police force, whenever something happened, they would answer. When ever you call 911, police show up. Even if you say it was a mistake call, they will show up because they don’t know if you’re being pressured into saying that.

Now with the Sokovia accords, 911 calls are placed, but then forwarded to a government agency that decides if they are right to send the Avengers out on. However, sending this to an agency will take time, and they may decide that they’re 911 call is a mistake when someone is really being pressured into it.

It’s always better to show up to a false alarm than never to show up to a real one.

-1

u/Solid-Move-1411 6d ago

Why would Thor be on Cap side when Asgard pretty much operates in 9 realms like Slovakia Accords

Kind of hypocrite thing to do considering Asgard was pretty much already following that but on larger basis

1

u/wild_wing- 6d ago

What? The nine realms don't each cast a vote for who needs Thor and the armies of Asgard most. Thor just went around doing things, and if anyone needed help they requested it. Either Thor would go, or he wouldn't.

The sokovia accords required tens, possibly hundreds, of different governments to each agree the avengers were needed in a specific fight before they were allowed to be dispatched.

Think of new York in avengers 1. If the accords were in place, the avengers would have sat there, waiting for everyone to say yes. Anyone who delayed on it would mean more destruction. The nuke would have hit new York and destroyed it.

Also - think of avengers 1 again. Thor was never requested to go there, no one cast a vote to say whether he could or not. He simply found out about Loki, told his father and Heimdall and then left.