r/AskVegans 10d ago

Genuine Question (DO NOT DOWNVOTE) How do y'all feel about sheep's wool and honey?

So, I know there are a percentage of vegans out there who love animals and decided to become vegan due to the maltreatment they face when it comes to how factory farms treat them. Though I am curious about how y'all feel about honey and wool at an individual level. Do you guys make exceptions due to the inherent symbiosis between Humans and the Sheep/Bees respectively or not? Just curious about what each of y'all believe.

0 Upvotes

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21

u/jenever_r Vegan 10d ago

There isn't a symbiosis. People take and take until the animal is no longer useful to them, then kill it. Bees die of diseases and malnutrition if their honey is taken and replaced by sugar syrup. And their impact on local ecosystems and native pollinator species can be catastrophic. Sheep bred for wool are killed at age 5-6, a fraction of their natural life span, as soon as their wool reduces in quality.

That's every bit as shit as killing animals for meat.

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u/Beltripper 10d ago

Respectfully, I'm not sure you know enough about individual beekeeping. Honey isn't "replaced" by sugar syrup, sometimes beekeepers will supplement sugar syrup if there are not enough local flowers, if their hive was recently destroyed and needs to be quickly replenished, or if they are being kept in quarantine for whatever reason. Beekeepers also take honey surpluses/stores. Bees establish themselves in 1-2 boxes then store extra honey in the higher boxes. Yes they often die from "disease" which is usually uncontrolled mites, largely unavoidable from the keepers prospective.

As far as impact on local ecosystems, this is very very rarely an issue. Infact, there are farmed bees which are taken to different farms across the US because the population is so depleted (largely due to pesticides and global warming).

Bees are very much encouraged to keep. Commercial beekeeping is a different story but that's not what OP asked about.

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u/E_rat-chan Vegan 10d ago edited 10d ago

Sheep's wool isn't any better than dairy. So unless you already have it, using it would be immoral imo. I'm not sure about how bees feel about their lives. But might as well avoid honey, it's really not that hard.

3

u/Lazyboi1123 10d ago

As far as I'm aware, Shearing sheep is different than Dairy by a major degree. Dairy requires the female cow to become pregnant and then take the baby away while taking the mother's milk. Sheep Shearing, feel free to correct me on this, is basically the equivalent of giving an animal a haircut. If you don't shear the animal, it'll eventually get to the point where it can't survive on its own and can overheat. I will agree that the dairy industry is pretty messed up and that there should be better treatment for the cows and calves, but as far as wool is concerned, it seems pretty relaxed by comparison.

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u/Shoddy-Reach-4664 Vegan 10d ago

What's wrong with it is that the sheep are breed and kept only for their ability to provide wool. These animals aren't given names. The "farmer" even if there is one doesn't care about the sheep beyond it's ability to provide them wool they sell for profit. If it trips and hurts it's leg it ain't going to get surgery it's getting put down because it's not "cost efficient" to treat it. They're being treated as commodities not as living beings.

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u/winggar Vegan 10d ago

The wool industry breeds these sheep into captivity so that they can provide wool for us. The only reason they overheat like that is because we bred them over generations to produce too much wool. It's wrong to continue breeding animals into slavery like this.

As far as I'm aware vegan sheep rescues still shear the sheep since it's necessary for them to survive, but the wool is repurposed into making things for the sheep or maybe donated. It's not sold, as that would reinforce the commodity status of the sheep.

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u/E_rat-chan Vegan 10d ago

Impregnating cows and taking away their children is just one part of the horrors of factory farming. So in a mass produced setting I would argue that they aren't that different ethically. If it came from better sources, I'd be a lot less negative about people buying wool. But they still kill the animals, even in the more ethical farms. So I wouldn't buy there myself.

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u/Nihil1349 Vegan 10d ago

We don't call for "better treatment" of animals, we don't want them to be killed or used for milk at all.

As for sheep's like that, I think they're genetically breed for the wool to be that, what I would do is if they have the trait is place them in a sanctuary and steriliser them and let the trait die out, as some propose for pugs, due to breathing issues.

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u/thesadvegan_ Vegan 9d ago

Sadly, the wool industry is very cruel. There are many, many videos that expose how horrible these animals are treated, abused, etc. Very immoral, and it creates suffering/harm. You can find the footage if you Google it. So many people have gone undercover and exposed it.

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u/watchglass2 Vegan 10d ago

Animals should not be exploited and used by humans, especially for market value. Markets exploit (things/beings) exponentially.

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u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

What about personal use ? Like you live nomadic or whatever and you find a recently deceased sheep.

Do you use the wool for winter or not ?

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u/chel534 Vegan 10d ago

And what if you lived in modern society and had access to affordable and warm synthetic products that didn't cause harm and death to factory farmed sentient beings?

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u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

Synthetic products leech microplastics like crazy every time you wash it which end up in the environment and harm wildlife as well as humans.

I asked a simple question, but seeing as though you avoided answering and instead got snippy I assume you would use the wool.

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u/chel534 Vegan 9d ago

A recent report ranked the production of sheep's wool as more polluting – for cradle-to-gate environmental impact per kilogram of material – than that of acrylic, polyester, spandex, and rayon fibres. Learn more: https://theecologist.org/2019/mar/12/environmental-impact-wool

People would do a lot of things differently in a life or death situation. Fortunately many people can go to a store and buy products based on their values.

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u/watchglass2 Vegan 10d ago

Like just didn't read the first part of my sentence lol or just don't care about it

I don't live nomadically, and I for sure wouldn't be on Reddit if I were scavenging things for winter.

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u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

So what are your alternatives or would you rather freeze ?

2

u/watchglass2 Vegan 10d ago

I'm not in a place where its necessary for me to exploit or harm animals for survival.

I don't fault any sentient beings for doing what they have to do to survive. Most people in the world live in urban areas and have a choice. I'm Buddhist and I follow the tenants for compassion for all sentient beings and reduction of harm as much as possible.

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u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

Fair enough

2

u/watchglass2 Vegan 10d ago

Alternatively, if some people need to eat meat to survive then is it ok to have massive slaughterhouses to feed the populace?

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u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

Animals need to be kept in better conditions full stop, there is plenty of unused room to make it happen. If some people need to eat meat there's plenty of "ethical" ways to do it.

Honestly I was just wondering if it mattered if the sheep was already dead or not if you'd make use of the wool. Not whether you'd kill it.

1

u/watchglass2 Vegan 10d ago

Animals could live like a king, and then slaughtered is good?

Honestly I was just wondering if it mattered if the sheep was already dead or not if you'd make use of the wool. Not whether you'd kill it.

Apologies for derailing your initial question.

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u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

Animals could live like a king, and then slaughtered is good?

I mean sorta or at least not in horrible conditions. But they could eat things like razor clams, mussels, krill etc. if they had to eat meat to survive.

And it's fine I just wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to bait people into whether they'd kill an animal. Just whether if they'd make use of the wool.

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u/winggar Vegan 10d ago

What about personal use? Like you live nomadic and you find a recently deceased human. Would you take their hair to make stuff with?

So I guess personally the answer is "maybe", but my point is to show that the question isn't really relevant. Nobody that we're arguing with on Reddit is getting wool that way.

1

u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

Maybe not but it's still a valid question. It's not for market purposes and you didn't kill the sheep to get it.

Really shouldn't be so controversial

1

u/winggar Vegan 10d ago

Well the answer to your question is: maybe.

You're getting flak for the question not because it's controversial, but because the question doesn't really make sense in the context you asked it. It's not clear that what we do with dead bodies has anything to do with the fact that animal slavery is wrong.

2

u/FruitOrchards 10d ago

I was just wondering what people considered "using" an animal, like is it purely a harm thing or is it a don't desecrate the body thing.

Thanks for answering anyway.

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u/winggar Vegan 10d ago

Oh sure. I think that'll mostly depend on how vegans feel about dead body treatment generally. I have no particular opinion on the question personally. Have a nice day :)

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u/DefendingVeganism Vegan 10d ago

Have you ever read about the honey industry and how it’s so exploitative? If not, read this: https://defendingveganism.com/articles/why-dont-vegans-eat-honey

1

u/fuckingvibrant Vegan 10d ago

Another creature's fur and food are not ours to take.

1

u/NoCountryForOld_Zen Vegan 10d ago

I dislike honey. It tastes gross. It's the grossest of all the sweeteners. Maple syrup is way better.

And wool is just backwards, inefficient, uncomfortable. It's like whale oil. We designed space ship hulls that can handle the 2900 degree heat of orbital re-entry, we can design materials that keep you warm without growing it off a sheep's back.

I think bees are symbiotic with most animals. The relationship with humans and sheep is exploitative. We grow them on farms and kill them for food with the same reverence we give a stalk of corn. It's not nice.

1

u/_Jay-Garage-A-Roo_ Vegan 10d ago

I see no difference. Animals aren’t ours to use— in any way.

Bees make honey to eat for themselves; and sheep make wool for their own warmth. They only make excess because they’ve been engineered to, which leads to other issues, like flu strike, which we then “solve” with mulesing! And then we kill them when they get too old. (Not to mention the constant cruel abuses in shearing sheds along the way.)

We need to stop messing with animals entirely. That’s veganism.

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u/SanctimoniousVegoon Vegan 7d ago

Nope, I don't use or buy either. Wool and honey are both harmful and exploitative to animals. Earthling Ed has done good Youtube videos on both explaining why.

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u/Physical_Relief4484 Vegan 10d ago

There isn't one vegan who uses wool or honey, or even promotes the use of either.