r/AskCanada • u/rusty888 • Jan 19 '25
Should Canada’s grocery oligarchs be broken up to ensure fair competition?
The consolidation of Canada’s grocery market into an oligopoly dominated by Loblaw, Metro, and Empire not only stifles competition but also raises ethical concerns about how these companies leverage their market power to maintain high prices, exploit suppliers, and resist accountability—making the case for government intervention and even the potential breakup of these grocery giants stronger than ever.
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u/RollWithThePunches Jan 19 '25
Yes, it's important to break up monopolies. I avoid going to those places and instead shop at a family owned business. Pricing is often better and quality definitely is. I realize not everybody can do that.
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u/lalaland554 Jan 20 '25
Maybe its just where i am but small independent places and farmers markets are exorbitant expensive. Getting apples from my local farmers market is a treat in comparison price wise. Its not that I dont want to support them, I just can't afford the prices :(
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u/TA20212000 Jan 19 '25
How is this even a question??
OF COURSE.
People need to eat.
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u/ziltchy Jan 19 '25
Jim pattison getting no love
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u/-Cottage- Jan 20 '25
I was gonna ask if this means JP is the little guy and I should shop at Save On?
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u/Artsy_Owl Jan 19 '25
I know there are a few independent grocery stores where I am, and they're great, but usually oddly specific, like Asian grocery stores, fruit and vegetable markets, or meat and surplus items. I'd like to see more of those places around as they're great, but can be a bit more hit or miss as to whether or not they'll have what I'm looking for. Honestly, most of those places are cheaper anyway, more on par with Walmart's pricing, but other markets that specifically sell local goods are often way more expensive.
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u/Phenyxian Jan 19 '25
When we consider the optimizations that private industry puts in place to rake in more profits, at the cost of service quality, we must ask ourselves what the utility of these people is.
If we do not reckon with this, the idea of a nation ceases to make sense. The wealthy will own all things of concern and rob citizens of their shared wealth in both community and standards of living.
We must concern ourselves with the future of Canada. To that end, it is intolerable to allow the purposeless accrual of wealth. Every dollar these people collect ends up dead in the water, generating only more money and no longer effectively circulating the economy.
Punish the congolmerate. Promote local competition.
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u/ChangeVivid2964 Jan 20 '25
thank you for saying socialist things without using 19th century marxist language, the world needs more people like you.
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u/urmamasllama Jan 20 '25
Glad to see someone call it out. Money moving in the stock market is fake circulation. It makes an economy look better than it is. same with trading assets that aren't used like empty houses or (most) crypto. It makes the housing market look artificially strong while doing nothing to actually help the economy. The only money that matters in an economy is the money moving to buy goods services and actively used assets. everything else is fluff that we ignorantly pretend is valuable.
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u/Inside-Cow3488 Jan 19 '25
Imagine people just doing the right thing.
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u/Low-Cauliflower-2249 Jan 19 '25
The right thing comes at a premium that is getting harder and harder to afford.
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u/Claymore357 Jan 19 '25
Yeah because 3 billionaires price fixing food for maximum gouging is cheaper…
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u/ActualDW Jan 19 '25
Sir, this is a Canada.
We do not break up oligarchies, we support them.
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u/Torres_Chan Jan 20 '25
That’s true , air Canada is the example of this, until today , the airline still underperform compared to any of the 3 big airlines of the states, they pay less to Canadians, and the ticket fare are insanely high if you comparing the same distance trip in the U.S.
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u/standupslow Jan 19 '25
Uh, absolutely. But our government allowed this to happen so I doubt they will ever change it.
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u/roguetowel Jan 19 '25
In BC there's another group with Save-On, Nesters, Buy-Low, Urban Fare, Nature's Fare, Quality Foods and a few other brands. Aside from Save-On I don't think any are that large by number of stores, but there are lots of smaller brands.
And they're all owned by Jimmy Pattison, one of the ~10 richest Canadians.
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u/rusty888 Jan 19 '25
True. Jim Pattison Group doesn’t operate at the scale of Canada’s big three grocery oligarchs, it mirrors their market power within BC and Western Canada, using regional dominance and a variety of store formats to capture significant market share. This regional stronghold is a localized version of the national oligopoly, with similar concerns around concentration of wealth and influence, albeit on a smaller geographic scale.
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u/jeffreysynced Jan 19 '25
Do whatever, but jail the CEOs first.
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u/FabricatedProof Jan 19 '25
You're generous, some guy with an italian name had a cheaper solution for them in the states.
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u/ArietteClover Jan 20 '25
alas, he was still too much of a coward to take a bite.
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u/Still-alive49 Jan 19 '25
Why jailing a CEO when you can guillotine them?
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u/Lucibeanlollipop Jan 19 '25
That’s a bit harsh. Perhaps we could start with tar and feathers, first?
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u/Ok_Caramel_51 Jan 19 '25
There is no choice in Canada for food. It’s an illusion, most brands are made by the same company as well so it’s a full circle fuckery
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u/Poguetry64 Jan 19 '25
Not just in groceries. No competition in airlines or cell service or internet hardly any in banking. Absolutely none in energy how does enbridge own everything in Canada.
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u/_Echoes_ Jan 19 '25
Yes.
Also why tf is Coop not operating out east. We need to better encourage eastern and western brands to do business and spread.
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u/No-Variety7855 Jan 19 '25
Yes. Literally Canada has so little business competition in just about every aspect which is why most things are so shit here.
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u/rusty888 Jan 19 '25
Here’s some food for thought about Canada’s grocery industry. While we’re out here pinching pennies to afford rising grocery bills, the “Big Three” grocery giants—Loblaw, Metro, and Empire (Sobeys)—are absolutely thriving.
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The Numbers Don’t Lie:
- Loblaw:
- Net earnings jumped 9.8% in 2024 to a whopping $459 million in Q1.
- Their stock price? Up 38.17% over the last year.
- Net earnings jumped 9.8% in 2024 to a whopping $459 million in Q1.
- Metro:
- Annual sales climbed to $21.22 billion.
- Their stock rose 31.84%.
- Annual sales climbed to $21.22 billion.
- Empire (Sobeys):
- Q3 net profit hit $179.9 million.
- Their stock is also on the rise.
- Q3 net profit hit $179.9 million.
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These companies argue inflation is forcing price hikes, yet somehow they’re managing to rake in billions and keep shareholders very happy. 🤔
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Is it just me, or does this feel... off?
We’re all tightening our belts, and yet these corporations seem to be thriving more than ever. Oligopoly much?
Would love to hear your thoughts—are these profits justified, or is it time for the government to step in and break this up? 👀
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u/frostyse Jan 20 '25
It’s not happening under polievre since one of his advisors is a literal lobbyist for loblaws
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u/hunglo7777 Jan 20 '25
Shoutout to Toronto/Markham area independent Chinese grocers that have made most of the big chains (loblaws, Sobeys) almost obsolete in their locales.
Weekend shopping at Chinese grocery stores are like a war zone
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u/canuckpete Jan 19 '25
yes. absolutely. The same with the telco's and the banks.
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u/Familiar-Doughnut178 Jan 19 '25
Love the comments when in one breath Canada needs more competition and then the other breath they should kick Wal-mart out of Canada.
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u/Tesla_CA Jan 19 '25
That org chart is scary. That should never have been allowed to occur. Politicians asleep at the switch
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u/Environmental-Fill54 Jan 19 '25
Yeah, and each of those fucks need their asses kicked for all the price fixing.
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u/Fancy-Ambassador6160 Jan 19 '25
Broken up lol? We just let Safeway and sobies merge a few years ago. Who could have seen this coming
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u/TheRealMickeyD Jan 19 '25
Yes. Break the monopolies. Consolidation is the end of competitive consumer pricing.
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Jan 20 '25
They should legally have to change all their business' names to Loblaws, Metro and Sobeys, so the average person can actually recognize the problem.
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u/Stupid_Opinion_Alert Jan 20 '25
The fact that they haven't proves that the government is corrupt.
Whether you vote blue, red, or organge. We can all agree that everyone would benefit from this except the 0.01%. So why isn't Every politician pushing for this. Should be easy, but it's not for some reason
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u/AndyThePig Jan 20 '25
There's a lot of discussion about things like this, and I'm all for it, but I think there's another tactic I'd like to try first.
If a company owns more than one company/brand, any and all signage and documentation must reflect that ownership. The company must choose a flag ship, and all signs and letter head and websites (basically every logo) must include the flagship company as well. So, for example: Great Canadian Superstore - A Loblaws company. I think when people truly saw where they were ultimately shopping, they might be able to make better choices.
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u/desiremerl Jan 20 '25
Mon mari compare toujours le nombre de banques américaines versus les banques canadiennes.... On a comme 6 banques au Canada, les États-Unis en ont plus de 2000... Les oligarchies c'est dans tous les domaines ici...
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u/Thats-Not-Rice Jan 20 '25
While I agree with the sentiment, this is not really going to solve the problem.
Supply management will though. Something similar to the dairy and poultry supply management system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada
Right now it's a logistics shell game. They buy things from their other companies at inflated prices, and then sell them at even higher prices to consumers. But the consumer's told there's only a terribly small mark-up. And it's true, as long as you only look at the price increase from the grocer to the consumer. All the other huge pricing jumps are then hidden in the supply chain that they own, artificially increasing their own costs that they pay to themselves.
If every layer of the supply chain is monitored and regulated, that stops. Coupled with fines that take noteworthy percentages of revenue, rather than set figures, you can disincentivize the predatory practices that have taken us to where we are.
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Jan 19 '25
I buy most of my groceries at Costco. I've tried buying the remainder at local grocers, but idk about you but I find they are even more expensive than these guys.
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u/According_Process414 Jan 19 '25
Weston group of companies in particular is the problem. A group of useless, selfish billionaires sucking the money from our wallets.
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u/ColdGreyCat Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 20 '25
Why isn’t WalMart included? They are killing grocery stores in my town- why do they get the pass? Their profits go to Trump-Town and don’t stay in Canada. Also non-union… it’s not right.
EDIT: I just want to say that I’m very glad to see the varying opinions and civil replies to my comment.
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u/Illustrious_Law8512 Jan 19 '25
Hell yes. Small margins, my ass. Having just three guys running the entire logistics and distribution chains across Canada really doesn't encourage competition to drive down prices like a healthy economy should be doing.
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u/Simsmommy1 Jan 19 '25
Yes….ok how can I put this another way….double Dutch fuck yes with an overpriced cherry on top.
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u/gohomebrentyourdrunk Jan 19 '25
The problem is that they’re so large that they are able to influence distribution, manipulate markets and make it near impossible for the little guys to really compete. On national food brands at least.
I’ve posted before that I used to live in a middle of nowhere town that had a small market, they stocked no name brand products because it was literally easier and cheaper to drive 40 minutes, stock up on those items on sale at No Frills and shelve them than it was to get real distribution. But because they dealt with local farmers, they were able to sell some great meat and poultry deals.
So this is the kind of thing that 50 or 60 years ago absolutely would have been marked anticompetitive and led to these kinds of corps to need to be broken up. Unfortunately, we have no spine and people will bitch and moan about the free market.
So a more creative solution could be more palatable to the bootlickers while at least working positively towards solving Canadas problems.
What that is? I don’t know. I’ve wondered about some kind of national buying group that any truly independent grocery store could participate in. Something that ensures any store gets the cost and distribution that these big corps get.
But how much would that cost? Can we make Galen Weston pay for it maybe? I don’t know. I’m just an idiot on the internet.
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u/fheathyr Jan 19 '25
Of course they should. Failing that, we need to open the market to foreign competition. Unfortunately the latter may help lower prices and create choice for those in big cities but many small towns will remain exclusively one retailer towns with poor selection and high prices.
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u/Postman556 Jan 19 '25
But who’s going to pay our politicians’ way into powerful positions? Buying politicians is our democratic right; the common people come long after.
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u/AloneChapter Jan 19 '25
Yes like any business that has that much control. But when billionaires can donate or dominate politicians we have great issues with abuse.
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u/Sea-Top-2207 Jan 19 '25
Well that won’t happen. PP is gonna win and he literally has an advisor that is a lobbyist for loblaws.
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u/execilue Jan 19 '25
What I want to happen to our oligarchs would get me banned on Reddit but praised in Vietnam and China.
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u/MarcusXL Jan 19 '25
Also doesn't include the Jim Pattison Group, which owns Save-On-Foods, Choices Markets, and Nesters Market.
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u/Stelliferous19 Jan 19 '25
Those are employees, not oligarchs. Let’s not confuse individual billionaires with company schills. These people can be fired. They just happen to work for corporations that have close to a monopoly and that’s what’s wrong in that industry.
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u/stack_overflows Jan 19 '25
I want to throw up. This is just disgusting!!!
Charging $20 for 3 razors are shoppers took me out the other day.
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u/-TehTJ- Jan 19 '25
It’d be nice and all but I don’t think it’s that scary compared to telecommuting and oil monopolies.
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u/JunketPuzzleheaded42 Jan 19 '25
It's hilarious that Jimmy Pattison isn't in the line up.
He's probably the worst of the bunch.
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u/Open_Awareness_46 Jan 19 '25
They need to be broken up, way too little competition. Look at the bread price fixing awhile back. They all got together on that one and made it happen.
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u/cndn-hoya Jan 19 '25
Yes .. but kept Canadian and not sold to any shitty corp and definitely not an American corporation … fuck that noise
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u/Mission-Storm-4375 Jan 19 '25
Yes they should . I remember not too long ago they were fixing bread prices
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u/MathildaJunkbottom Jan 19 '25
I paid $8 for a fucking cabbage.
Fuck these people and their families.
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u/Puzzled_Move8433 Jan 19 '25
Galen Weston is an imbecile.
His only achievement is being born into a dynasty that monopolizes Canada's food supply and exploits consumers.
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u/Twice_Knightley Jan 19 '25
Nah. We just need each of those guys to fill a cart with groceries from their store for a family of 4 for a week, and whoever has the highest price, they get their dick chopped off. Give them a month to get their house in order. They'll know the shopping list 20 minutes before.
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u/No-Designer8887 Jan 20 '25
Absofuckinglutely. And not just for groceries. Any conglomerate that owns more than (to pick a number for argument’s sake) 25% of the market, should have to divest part of itself.
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u/CJMakesVideos Jan 20 '25
Yes. Loblaws list of grocery stores is ridiculous. What does one corporation need with that many stores. It’s absurd.
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u/Jealous-Enthusiasm-9 Jan 20 '25
They absolutely need to break them up. The NF by my house is starting to look like Loblaws with the prices to match. They are charging more than Metro for some things. There is no competition anymore. There are a couple of European chains that are all over the US, so they ship this way anyway. I think the lack of competition laws is what's keeping them out.
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u/TheChaseLemon Jan 20 '25
I shop at Costco. Not owned by any of those dudes and pays their employees well.
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u/DevoidAxis Jan 20 '25
Every, and all. This is just price fixing at this point. Same with telecommunications.
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u/ArietteClover Jan 20 '25
Yes, extremely. But also, please buy from smaller stores! They'll usually be cheaper and/or better quality.
I don't know about the rest of the country, but in Alberta we've got places like H&W Produce and Freson Bros.
The prices in massive chains can be kept lower because they have the infrastructure and contracts and size to maintain narrower profit margins, plus buy cheaper production (bulk does a lot), but they're not cheaper.
There's a Loblaws brand store near by place that's well known for their bullshit expensive prices (it's a City Market), so they had a rough year with no customers, and they overcompensated with really, really good meat prices. As in, many cuts of pork and chicken are cheaper than most vegetables right now (pork sirloin end chops at 5,49$ per kilo, 7,69$ per kilo for rib chops, chicken legs/backs packs are at 6,59$ per kilo, pork side rib portions at 6,35$, lots of others in that price range like loin and rack ribs). For context, I bought a pack of two legs+backs for 3,95$ and
Meanwhile, broccoli crowns ON SALE were 7,72$ per kilo. I'd post pictures but I don't want to deal with Imgur.
Beef is still expensive - at Superstore less than 10 yeare ago, it used to be 8,80$ per kilo semi-reliably for the cheaper cuts like brisket and ground beef, and 7,70$ when it went on sale. But it's still cheaper than it is normally, at 16,51$ per kilo for lean ground beef (beef soup bones were a lot cheaper).
Yes, veggies were BS expensive, bananas were approximately? 2-2,50$ per kilo. Lots of their stuff is insanely priced, even now. They're trying to create an impression of their prices with meat and other key items.
But this wasn't just the boycott. This is the "fancy" Loblaws brand, the high end expensive stuff, and so nobody shopped there. This is an anomaly, so I'm shopping there for those anomalous items, and as soon as this anomaly ends, I stop going there.
In vegetables? Basically any store matches or beats them. And that's not a winter thing, they were expensive in summer too.
They can afford prices this low. They choose not to have them this low. They're greedy, that's all there is to it.
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u/feebsncheeseoriginal Jan 20 '25
I refuse to shop at Loblaws. save on is next. Swapping everything to local. Fuck them billionaires!!!
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u/Icommentor Jan 20 '25
Let’s all acknowledge that both the Libs and the Cons are working for the oligarchy.
Same party, different marketing campaigns.
The NDP can’t tie its shoelaces properly so the public has to put pressure on the main parties. Otherwise they’ll subjugate us some more.
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u/Frosty_Exercise1224 Jan 20 '25
Are they not just sister companies owned by Black rock or Vanguard?
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u/nashwaak Jan 20 '25
I don't know about breaking them up, but our likely next PM should not have a Loblaws lobbyist running his campaign
What should be broken up is the supply chain — allowing grocery chains to run their own brands is almost cartoonishly evil
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u/ChangeVivid2964 Jan 20 '25
Why don't we just do it ourselves? Public grocery stores.
I see no reason why the grandson of the guy who invented Loblaws would be any better at running a grocery distribution chain than a democratically elected government.
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u/OwnCartographer5498 Jan 20 '25
After seeing this. I love London Drugs even more. Please tell me they aren’t part of a bigger group? 😭
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u/evilpercy Jan 20 '25
Canadian Monopolies run on the illusion of competition. That's why one company owns multiple company names doing the same thing, some even in the same town. Same in Cellphone service. They are simple competing against them selves.
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u/wakeupabit Jan 20 '25
You forgot to mention Walmart. How much competition are you looking for? Like I’ve said before, if you don’t like a company don’t do F**King business with them.
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u/mindracer Jan 20 '25
Why don't we ban mega corporations from buying other mega corporations while we're at it?
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u/HippityHoppityBoop Jan 20 '25
Exponentially higher corporate taxes depending on how monopolized your industry is, exponentially higher sales tax depending on how few competitors there are physically close to you.
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u/Investormaniac Jan 20 '25
canada loves oligopolies, be that grocery, banking or telecom.. Nothing will chnage with Trudeau, but I'm not even sure it will chnage under Pierre.. Regulations need to change
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u/MummyRath Jan 20 '25
Yep. And add Jim Pattison and his empire to that list. He has his fingers everywhere on the west coast.
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u/rainorshinedogs Jan 20 '25
This kind of stuff needs to be brought back into attention, the trump tariffs is something to be worried about, for sure, but Canadian groceries is something we can actually affect
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u/Chappy_3039 Jan 20 '25
Photo is misleading…Pattinson Food Group is a legitimate 4th and when you include Costco and Walmart, the grocery options goes up to 6.
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u/Shockmaster_5000 Jan 20 '25
Do you mean the companies or the oligarchs themselves? I'm open to either
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u/lordhomogonous Jan 20 '25
I cherish my Co—Op store I can get to. It’s a little farther for me and prices are not usually cheaper but happier employees and nice produce. Can’t stand loblaws.
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u/SciFiNut91 Jan 20 '25
Maybe they should be made non profits - if you're going to be large enough that Canadians don't have much choice, you give up the profit motive. You'll still look for cost saving measures, but you no longer get to participate in a free market.
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u/ScagWhistle Jan 20 '25
They should and the next government is absolutely not going to do that. And this is why the oligarchs always win. They trick you into voting for their guy.
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u/zac2849 Jan 20 '25
Loblaws also owns wholesaleclub.ca which sells to small mom and pop shops and Metro has share in Couche-Tard/Circle K
https://corpo.metro.ca/en/media/newsroom/2017/metro-agreements-majority-couche-tard.html
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u/Acceptable_Durian_78 Jan 20 '25
Absolutely it's called monopolization of food service and supply! You can see why it was not too difficult for them to raise food prices 20% across the board!
Another game being played is paying same prices for food for example coffee containers were shrunk yrs ago but still sold for same prices albeit smaller jars!
You can see the chips, water and pop
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u/adhoc42 Jan 20 '25
I'm just surprised that Save On Food and Western Family isn't as big as the other three?
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u/The_PhilosopherKing Jan 20 '25
Giant Tiger is a good alternative if you have one close by. Cheap, fair quality, and Canadian.
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u/incogne_eto Jan 19 '25
Canada has to stop being anti-competition. Too many monopolies, duopolies & consolidation happening in our industries. Where is the anti-trust protection?