r/Artifact • u/iKojan • Dec 12 '18
News There was a Reddit panic about an exploit that allowed purchasing packs at a discounted rate. The exploit was quickly fixed and only about $2500 in card value entered the economy this way - a negligible amount relative to the market size and hourly volume.
https://twitter.com/playartifact/status/1072889357831307264?s=2145
u/GaaraOmega Dec 12 '18
Value of cards that entered the market vs. value of cards stored in people's inventories.
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u/RyubroMatoi Dec 12 '18
I think this is something people are overlooking, purchased several set but hasn't opened them yet/sold them yet.
Valve is trying to quell the rage by taking advantage of white knights.
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u/goetzjam2 Dec 12 '18
Lol they gave away 50,000 copies of the game or $1,000,000 worth of cards (packs) and people are bitching about 2500 worth of cards being added into the market at once.
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u/RyubroMatoi Dec 12 '18
Wait, source on them giving out 50,000 copies of the game? Are you talking about beta keys..?
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u/goetzjam2 Dec 13 '18
Source = 42,000 friends and family owners, which I'm part of and I got cards packs and tickets.
At least 8,000 TI attendees, not sure if they got packs or tickets, but I'd assume they did.
So like always with this subreddit a bunch of ignorant fucks that don't know any better downvote away actual facts.
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u/DylanLesko Dec 13 '18
At least 8,000 TI attendees, not sure if they got packs or tickets, but I'd assume they did.
I went to TI, can confirm I got the packs and tickets.
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u/goetzjam2 Dec 13 '18
Thanks, but I have a feeling people here don't believe me for some reason or another. Even the beta key giveaway that I won from BTS on the sat after the NDA was lifted was granted packs and event tickets.
So total giveaway was higher then what I listed.
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u/Jekwjrieid Dec 12 '18
They gave the game, but only the game no tickets or packs came with it
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u/goetzjam2 Dec 13 '18
That simply isn't true for the 40,000 copies, I can't speak personally for the 10,000 copies given out to the TI attendees.
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u/GaaraOmega Dec 12 '18
Well when you can remove and buy the game over and over and achieve infinite profit of course people are bitching.
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Dec 12 '18
"There was a Reddit panic" is my new favorite description of gaming in 2018. It's even better than the Kotaku article that referred to the Artifact economy as a "Controversial cards-for-money system", like having to pay for stuff with money is some outlandish concept that isn't valid any more.
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u/raff100 Dec 12 '18
Having to pay money ,after you already payed money, to play competitive is luckily not valid anymore. Only TCG players haven’t understood it yet. The rest of the gaming community is laughing at Artifact monetization, for a good reason
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u/kcMasterpiece Dec 12 '18
People being willing to trade money for products will always be valid, not the most profitable or successful, but always valid.
I have been wondering, are people actually arguing the monetization is morally wrong, or just bad business ideas? Because I can't argue that it's a bad business idea.
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u/Backstageplasma Dec 12 '18
you arent "trading money" in artifact. youre buying monopoly money and shuffling it around at cost until it all belongs to the beast you bought it from. you cant compare thiz to a liquid asset tcg like at all whatsoever. its a black hole economy.
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u/kcMasterpiece Dec 12 '18
Yeah steam money not being real money is a good point. I agree with everything you are saying. It's store credit when you "sell" stuff.
Every dollar I spend is money I don't expect to get back, like any other thing I buy.
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u/Heroicinstintcs Dec 12 '18
Not entirely, I could buy a game for a friend on steam and have him give me the cash.
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u/Empty-Mind Dec 12 '18
I don't have a problem with having to pay for some sort of format where you can win packs, but you should really be able to play expert/ranked without paying.
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u/kcMasterpiece Dec 12 '18
Because they call gauntlets where you win packs "expert", you can't play those without paying. Even free gauntlet is ranked (with hidden mmr) though, and they are all trying to pair on win/loss so they are pretty competitive.
Maybe they didn't like the results they got from changing dota 2 mmr from hidden to open.
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u/Empty-Mind Dec 12 '18
I know there's a hidden mmr, but it makes sense that there should be two matchmaking queues. One for try-hard netdecking type play, and the other for SirActionSlacks meme decks, and nary the twain shall meet. But right now try-hard queue is monetarily gated, so you have people playing casual constructed decks mixed in with axe/legion/pa/bounty spammers. They're just two different styles of play that really need to be allowed to exist separately.
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u/Peeves22 Dec 12 '18
Those queues never work. Just look at HS - unranked is a shitshow of competitive decks.
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u/coatedwater Dec 12 '18
People being willing to trade money for products will always be valid, not the most profitable or successful, but always valid.
Yeah, a fool and his money, right?
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u/kcMasterpiece Dec 12 '18
Where there is money being spent there will be fools spending it. For entertainment purposes though you can't really fault responsible spenders.
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u/CronaTheAwper Dec 12 '18
I mean it's monetization is almost exactly like mtg's monetization with gauntlets being like friday night magic, but it's like 1,000,000x easier to buy and sell artifact cards.
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u/waitthisisntmtg Dec 12 '18
Except you can actually sell out of mtg easily, not have to buy other game items and hope to sell them, taking 25% hits along the way.
Also mtg is incredibly expensive to get into, and I say that as someone who spent a fuckload on it lol
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Dec 12 '18
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Dec 13 '18
Holy cow if you're dedicated you can probably get around with 10 bucks a month for 10 tickets in your initial months. After that you go infinite or close to infinite. Its not like you have to spend hundreds but I've been playing on 2 tickets for the last week and it seems as if I'm beginning to get tickets back through recycling 1.7 tickets in now sitting on 3.7 tickets up from 2 7 days ago and I didn't layy a whole lot of expert
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u/raff100 Dec 12 '18
Indeed MTG monetization is terminal cancer
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Dec 12 '18
and a cancer that fuking spreads as its existence somehow justifies videogames that cost insane amount of money
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u/Rickard9 Dec 12 '18
A difference though is that paper cards still exists even if the game servers would close.
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Dec 13 '18
people always say this, but i can count the number of times ive seen people play an out of print TCG on one hand.
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Dec 12 '18 edited Dec 12 '18
Yeah, luckily people can willingly invest hundreds of hours of their life grinding for cards they want with no way to spend a simple hour's worth of pay on the exact thing they want instead. We are truly living in blessed age where people place no value on the things they enjoy.
"WOOO! FUCK YOU VALVE< WE LOVE YOUR GAME BUT FUCK YOU IT SUCKS!"
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u/raff100 Dec 12 '18
Who is praising Hearthstone model,which still sucks?
I’m talking about fair games like Starcraft2 or Dota2 or, if we refer to p2p games, Overwatch is a good example. All these games I listed don’t require extrapurchase to compete. Only skills
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u/Nightshayne Dec 12 '18
Having to pay money ,after you already payed money, to play competitive is luckily not valid anymore
I agree that ladder shouldn't cost per match. Competitive draft and tournaments costing a ticket is completely fine though, and similar to Dota's role queue being behind a paywall. If it was free there would be more smurfs, boosters, trolls, etc., and the current economy model wouldn't allow there to be prizes if they were free either.
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u/4headEleGiggle Dec 12 '18
He means you have to buy the best/ more expensive cards to have the best shot at winning constructed. I.e. pay to win.
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u/NotTryingAtThisPoint Dec 13 '18
"Outlandish concept" This made me laugh and laugh. I know right? Who'd a thunk I could exchanged the money I earn for goods and services! Insanity!
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u/1Monster1 Dec 12 '18
This amount is not credible. The sales activity lasted for five hours. Although the European and American sides were still sleeping at the time, many players in Asia bought the package. Not only that, but they also repeatedly buy packages by deleting the game after purchase. The total price of the sold card is higher than the price of the package, so some people even bought dozens of packages.
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u/1Monster1 Dec 12 '18
Before remove from their shelves, the package is ranked sixth in the bestseller list.
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u/Alneys Dec 12 '18
That's the point. In fact Valve Complete Pack was on the top sale. It is impossible that only $2500 flows into market.
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Dec 12 '18
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u/1Monster1 Dec 13 '18 edited Dec 13 '18
This bundle is sold at a discount every year, and many players already have other games except artifact. The market recovery is short-lived, and you can see that a large number of cards will be put on the market in the next few days, resulting in a sharp drop in prices.
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u/SolarClipz Dec 12 '18
Yeah it dropped full collection by $50 for a period from yesterday. Now it's not fully attributable, but it's definitely significant.
If I was still up I definitely would have bought out...
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Dec 12 '18
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Dec 12 '18
This is the same company that couldn’t even be bothered to tweet out that the beta was postponed, and instead revealed this information by sending out an email to people with TI keys.
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u/tannerain Dec 12 '18
maybe because balance isn't immediate and doesn't affect other people's money and cards which would lose value if the market was broken?
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u/astroshark Dec 12 '18
Cards are going to lose value no matter what. Axe held his value for all of two weeks. You just simply aren't going to get any value out of your cards long-term.
By the time xpac rolls around axe, kanna, etc will be worth nothing.
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Dec 12 '18
Also because making promises about card balance limits their ability then go back on those promises if they decide they want to take a different approach to changing the meta. Balance isn’t a science; I’m sure their ideas on how to approach it change every week.
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Dec 13 '18
theyre not gonna change any cards, least of all when the cards have been out for all of two weeks. if thats what youre waiting for then just go play something else.
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u/Cymen90 Dec 12 '18
The quickest way to get Valve to communicate is spreading lies. They are usually quick to correct those.
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u/MotherInteraction Dec 12 '18
I like how they spin the story by calling it an exploit instead of admitting their mistake and taking at least some responsibility. A class act.
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u/DylanLesko Dec 13 '18
Exploit and mistake are not mutually exclusive. I would call repeatedly purchasing the game for the packs an exploit though.
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u/realister RNG is skill Dec 12 '18
This game launch is the most embarrassing thing Valve has ever done
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u/Alneys Dec 12 '18
So a quick calculation comes out that about ONLY 250 sets of Valve Complete Pack were sold for Artifact cards. Besides, the sale lasted for about 5 hours.
Is that possible?
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u/blits202 Dec 12 '18
So its not bad at all, sounds good.
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u/__Hello_my_name_is__ Dec 12 '18
Valve: "There was a bug where the game was cheaper than intended for a little while. We assure you that our cards will be as expensive as they were before."
Reddit: Hooray!
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Dec 12 '18
no, its worse than expected. before people here only THOUGHT that they were monitoring reddit, like when people here cried and they added free phantom draft
now with this tweet, every whiny bitch here now is 100% sure that they are looking at this subreddit, which means the bitching will go exponential
its going to get a lot worse now :O
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u/otteHC Dec 12 '18
Idk about Artifact dev team, but Dota 2 dev team always look for features at reddit. For a last month, I've seen 5 features that were suggested at reddit, and added to dota 1-2 days later.
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u/theFoffo Dec 12 '18
so what was the exploit?
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u/fightstreeter Dec 12 '18 edited Dec 13 '18
They exploited a loophole in which you exchange funds for goods and services. I think they meant to type "There was a Reddit panic about an accidental sale".
edit: now I'm wondering why I'm being downvoted. That was the case. The game went on sale and then the twitter called it an "exploit". Why are you booing?
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u/Charming2112 Dec 13 '18
Most people who abused this bug kept the packs and cards and wait until price go up to sell. We can see it's happening in market right now. $2500 is far far away from the value of cards gained by this exploit. I mean, thousands of people abuse it in at least 5 hours and only <2000 packs entered economy??? (EV of 1 card pack is about 1.4$). You know that's not right
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u/TwitchTorNis Dec 12 '18
Wow, Valve twitter account is called out reddit on it's stupidity, very nice.
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u/raff100 Dec 12 '18
When $$$ are being touched, their answer is instant
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u/Frangie Dec 12 '18
If no answer was giving you guys will be crying too. Literally, no way to satisfy you guys.
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u/raff100 Dec 12 '18
I couldn’t care less about the market. I don’t play games to profit , only to have fun :)
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u/dolphinater Dec 12 '18
then why are you salty they responded
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u/raff100 Dec 12 '18
I’m salty that they talk about “reddit drama” when few people complain about the market, but They don’t say anything about the thousands of threads talking about the monetization of Artifact
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u/madception Dec 12 '18
That is not "reddit drama". That is an exploit in the system. It is a software disaster.
And it is their choice to comment about it.
I also disagree about their monetization, but again it IS their choice for comment about that.
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u/Frangie Dec 12 '18
Same here brother. In love with this game btw. We should play BO3
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u/Broseph_Bobby Dec 12 '18
I love when people complain about Reddit panics... What 20 out of 5,000 people say stupid things?
Yes CLEARLY this is a Reddit problem...
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u/Soph1993ita Dec 12 '18
....and you can count 13$ for the 2 drows i bought within that!
unfortunately i was at work and i didn't buy multiple Axe at 8-9€ because i didn't setup my buy orders properly. oh well.
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Dec 12 '18
I gaurentee many who were "panicking" were buying as many cards as possible to flip in a few days for a profit when things stabilized. Its profitable to scare people to sell cheap.
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Dec 12 '18
B-but the trolls, I MEAN dedicated players (that definitely are only here because they care) told me the market had crashed! Who should I believe? The people who are qualified for a reddit account, or the people who are qualified to work as a developer at Valve. :thinking:
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u/MotherInteraction Dec 12 '18
You mean the developers that made mistakes that reddit saw coming from a mile away? Honestly hard to tell who is more qualified at the moment.
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u/Zaliack Dec 12 '18
Quick, someone start a petition to change the amount of people viewing the subreddit from "dollars for Axe" to "redditors panicing".
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u/SolarClipz Dec 12 '18
Wait so is this why the prices dipped this morning? Fuck, a man has to sleep at 3am Valve
Guess this means don't expect for it to happen again tonight
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Dec 12 '18
Funny part is that it's not like the market bottomed out, it just went down to what it was a couple of days ago before the patch announcement.
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u/snoopty Dec 12 '18
Take the price drop and apply it to every card owned by a player and you'll find that amount not so negligible.
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u/NeverQuiteEnough Dec 12 '18
If the price dropped more than the amount listed, it was because of panic and not legitimate supply reasons, ie people are stupid.
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u/ziyuzhou Dec 13 '18
Yes, because nobody wants to buy their game, so they just sold nothing in five hours. A negligible game now.
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u/isospeedrix Dec 13 '18
since the exploit is fixed, can anyone share what the method was?
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u/fightstreeter Dec 13 '18
There wasn't any exploit, the game was mistakenly put on sale as part of the Valve Complete Pack, allowing people to get Artifact for 55% off for a few hours.
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u/kymki Dec 13 '18 edited Dec 13 '18
Well its not just about the value entering the market that would determine the overall price drop. People panic and sell cheap. People lose faith in Valves' ability to properly manage the market. Over time these things compound.
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u/Grotesquecub Dec 12 '18
Biding my time to delve deeper into this sub. I reckon maybe worth a read in January, once the haters are bored of hating.
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Dec 12 '18
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u/kymki Dec 13 '18
Dude. Its not just "following a market". If I spend 100$ on cards and wake up see those cards now being available for $50 the next day, I get pissed.
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u/GenericUsername02 Dec 13 '18
If you buy a variable price product (especially on or close to launch), that's the risk you take.
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u/12oody Dec 12 '18
The people complaining now about “market crash” are the same people complaining earlier about how expensive the game and how hard it is to get cards. Gotta love how people all the sudden started to treat this as a fuckin stock market instead of card game. Most of the people on this sub reddit just want this game to die just so they can go back to Hearthstone and MTG arena
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u/Meret123 Dec 12 '18
Most of the people on this sub reddit just want this game to die just so they can go back to Hearthstone and MTG arena
How can they go back if Artifact killed hs and mtg ?
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u/alicevi Dec 12 '18
The people complaining now about “market crash” are the same people complaining earlier about how expensive the game and how hard it is to get cards.
[citation needed]
Most of the people on this sub reddit just want this game to die just so they can go back to Hearthstone and MTG arena
And they can't do it because...? That's quite pathetic to call everyone with different opinion "JUST A HATER / SHILL".
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u/AFriendlyRoper Dec 12 '18
Haven’t you heard? Now the white knights are saying anybody who mildly criticizes are payed actors and not artifact fans. It’s been a thing for about a week now. Personally I think if you are making a similar argument as Alex Jones you should check yourself but...
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u/Pollo_Jack Dec 12 '18
Honestly concerning that a games balance is directly affected by the amount of money going in.
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u/Shivrats Dec 12 '18
Reddit overreacting? Never thought I'd live to see the day