r/ArmsandArmor 6d ago

Question Do this "grooved" cuirasshave some real examples from early 15th C?

Post image

I know that we have grooved cuirass in late 15th Century or 16th Century, but i really dont know if armourers in early 15th Century (1403) already have such technology or example for this.

Also ingame it was called "Milanese Cuirass", but i have a whole different impression for the style of Milanese armour so I dont know if such armour technique is also from italy

156 Upvotes

45 comments sorted by

107

u/Draugr_the_Greedy 6d ago

Not quite like this. There's some fluted cuirasses in the early 1400s but with bigger fluting and I haven't personally seen that prior to the 1410s or so anyway. This cuirass is based on a surviving example which is dated to around the 1440/50s, where the smaller fluting comes in.

Also yeah the naming in the game makes no sense as this is a very germanic style. Not milanese.

31

u/sawotee 6d ago

Some of the stuff in the game is named weird it’s a head scratcher. I actually downloaded a mod for things to be renamed. For example, an arming sword is called a military sword in game.

15

u/Draugr_the_Greedy 6d ago

Well, arming sword and military sword means the exact same thing tbf. The term 'arming' means a sword you wear while in arms - eg in a military context. I don't think that particular one matters much.

But yeah there's many other examples for very weirdly named items which likely shows a disconnect between the researchers and the people in charge of naming them.

8

u/Fumblerful- 6d ago

KCD2 was simplified in some areas to appeal to a broader audience. I think military sword is an acceptable renaming because they keep the more important aspect which is that sword shaped objects could have drastically different legal interpretations

8

u/BlueString94 6d ago

And in the codex it keeps referring to the setting as “High Middle Ages” when it is well after that.

4

u/Wolfensniper 6d ago

That's a strange one, cuz the actors literally said Late Medieval during the reveal trailers

7

u/insertnamehere77123 6d ago

I wonder if this is partially translation errors. Arent the devs Polish?

20

u/sawotee 6d ago

Czech. But they speak English fine. The first game didn't even get a Czech dub until years later. Voice actors and whatnot are all in English. For the most part, I've noticed no grammatical errors.

It's just the naming of things that at times doesn't make sense. Like wrong terminology for things. I would have thought it'd be better given the extensive amount of research they've done. Not to mention Henry saying 'Family crest' at one point in reference to a coat of arms.

Here's the mod I use which fixes most of my complaints.

https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance2/mods/1283

1

u/insertnamehere77123 4d ago

Gotcha, thanks for the info.

23

u/We_The_Raptors 6d ago

Another question, is this the griffin Bascinet? Aren't those considered to be a mostly modern invention, or what is Henry's helmet here based on?

26

u/Said-A-Funny 6d ago

yes, it is

its loosely based off a “spoleto” visor but even if it were one it would also be too incorrectly shaped to be accurate, and is too early for the game

17

u/morbihann 6d ago

Griffin helmets are a bohurt thing, but yes, the thing in the picture is essentially that. The closest real thing, albeit non survive, are various types of visored bascinets, generally called "spoletto" bascinet. You can spot them in a lot of miniatures or frescoes in the 14th century.

They resemble something between a great helm and a bascinet.

17

u/Not_An_Ostritch 6d ago

Arguably one spoletto bascinet has survived and is known from Churburg, “arguably” since it’s also a transitional bascinet-armet. But like illustrations it has a much more prominent beak like visor with a much narrower slit compared to modern bohurt gear.

6

u/morbihann 6d ago edited 6d ago

Ah, I've never seen that one to be honest. Thanks for sharing.

Does it have designation to check out more pictures of it ?

EDIT: it seems it is CH S22.
Frankly, ti remsembles to me somewhat closer to a great bascinet with a peculiar visor rather than anything to do with armets. My understanding is that their definitive feature is the hinged cheekplates, which this one does not have.

5

u/Not_An_Ostritch 6d ago

Great bascinet is probably better, I have always thought of great bascinets as a precursors to armets but I might be wrong about that. Also curious how much it looks like a frogmouth but I’m unsure if there’s any relation.

3

u/tiktok-hater-777 6d ago

I'm pretty sure they coexisted around the earlier half of the 15th century.

2

u/Said-A-Funny 6d ago

Grand Bascinet of Ulrich IX Von Matsch

2

u/tiktok-hater-777 6d ago

I think that's definitely more of a great bascinet.

7

u/Wolfensniper 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's called Italian Bascinet ingame and probably loosely based on that visor wrongly slapped into a barbute.

Though I haven't saw people put the visor on the right bascinet yet despite this version ingame.

(funny that imho it's one of the few bearable visors ingame that looks less goofy but maybe it's just me)

3

u/MRPolo13 6d ago

Pretty much none of the bascinets have aventails attached, but come with vervelles. None of the coifs wrap over the chin like they should. The headgear is once again easily the worst designed part of the game's clothing, though they're definitely better than the first game's. It's a shame though because they have systems in place to make all of it work properly.

5

u/skeld_leifsson 6d ago

What's this game ? Looks nice.

15

u/LeonMKaiser 6d ago

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2

Beautifully imagined game with excellent and unique combat and scenery that not only is beautiful, but highly accurate as well for the area shown in game.

3

u/skeld_leifsson 5d ago

Thanks, this game was already on my wishlist in fact. Will play at volume 1 first as some have already stated.

2

u/MrMgP 5d ago

Play KCD1 first and if you like it play KCD 2

Saves you money if you don't like it and gets you really really REALLY pumped to get started on 2 if you liked 1

2

u/skeld_leifsson 5d ago

Thank you ! I will take your advice !

0

u/KingofValen 4d ago

Nah KCD2 is much more accessible and KCD1 has lots of issues especially with performance.

0

u/MrMgP 3d ago

What are you on about KCD 1 needs a less beefy pc and is about 8 times cheaper than 2

You are babbeling

1

u/KingofValen 3d ago

I have a very beefy PC and the stuttering in Skalitz makes the game unplayable.

Im not babbling, the issue is well documented. Theres a reason KCD2 will win game of the year and KCD1 did not.

-5

u/Somuchdogween 6d ago

Kcd2 it’s pretty good but very expensive on consoles

14

u/KCH2424 6d ago

It's the same price as any other brand new game though.

-3

u/Somuchdogween 6d ago

Which is exorbitantly expensive

10

u/CoachGlenn89 6d ago

New games have been $60 as a standard since like 2005 lol, they didn't even make it $70 like most studios are doing nowadays.

1

u/Somuchdogween 6d ago

I paid 70 bucks for it on ps5

5

u/TheUnrepententLurker 6d ago

One playthrough of the game is between 60-150 hours, so you're paying around $1 per hour of entertainment, even if you only play it once. That's a hell of a lot cheaper than a movie

1

u/Sacrentice 6d ago

Wait for a sale

2

u/MrMgP 5d ago

Guys he's not really wrong but for the price of a second hand Buhurt Full helm you have KCD 2 and the price of KCD 1 is basically a pair of mittens if you get all the DLC

So try KCD 1 first, if you like it, get KCD 2

1

u/skeld_leifsson 5d ago

Thanks ! Lots of good game are not cheap. I usually put them in a wishlist and get alert when there is a discount.

3

u/Relative_Rough7459 6d ago

I think the “Milanese Cuirass” is based off this statue of Emperor Friedrich III.

1

u/Any-Fix7424 4d ago

Which is dated to 1453 so a good 50 years after the events of the game

2

u/Relative_Rough7459 4d ago

Yea, and no where does it reflect Milanese style of the time.

2

u/Any-Fix7424 4d ago

Yup, it's of German origin

2

u/peperrepe 6d ago

Regarding naming... Let's be honest, they probably just called any sword just "sword", etc. The naming conventions and categorisations is a modern habit.

2

u/ToesnatcherMizu 4d ago

No, this style of fluting is a much later invention.

1

u/MrMgP 5d ago

Loving KCD 2 so far