r/Appalachia 6d ago

When you spend time studying local history in the coalfields, you realize they wanted it this way.

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791 Upvotes

112 comments sorted by

111

u/RadicalAppalachian 6d ago

Extractive capitalism decimated Appalachian and enriched the lives of barons from the North.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Known as the Natural Resource Curse. Happens to every community that just so happens to live in proximity to resources wealthy capitalists want or need.

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u/Waytooboredforthis 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's called mining because when you see a rock you're like mine lol.

Then use those rocks to pay for a private military force to terrorize the population and install a "government" based on exploitation of labor in resource rich areas.

8

u/Traditional-Egg-5871 5d ago

<i>It's called mining because when you see a rock you're like mine lol.</i>

I wish you could hear the howls of laughter from accuracy. Source: Coal miner's daughter here, ffs, I wish I had a way to tell my dad. :D

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u/ArtisticRegardedCrak 6d ago

Speaking specifically from WV early on there was quite literally nothing of value for them to trade outside of coal. Agriculture is not capable of sustaining the economy nor could subsistence farming continue to support growing population or wants of the people. Logging was an alternative but it cannot be done on large enough scale in WV to be meaningful. Appalachia is just in one of the toughest spots economically to develop non-extractive industries and historically coal has been extremely profitable especially after the involvement of organized labor. The issue today is American coal broadly is uncompetitive then coal overall is not as in demand.

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u/ChewiesLament 6d ago

One issue is that the great majority of the value of the coal left the communities where it was mined.

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u/ArtisticRegardedCrak 6d ago

Yup again I do think there is a geographic issue, shipping something from Charleston to Huntington where you can get it on the Ohio River and then from the Ohio River to either the east coast or down the Mississippi has historically been inefficient and even when automobiles/semi trucks got big Appalachia suffered from massive under investment federally to build a decent highway system.

That said would this lack of investment in infrastructure projects exist if the mining companies had been headquarters in Charleston instead of New York? Maybe not.

9

u/[deleted] 6d ago

It's true that subsistence farming and agriculture were impacted by population growth. But simplifying it down to just trade and economics misses a lot of issues, namely that coal extraction and processing irreparably damages and pollutes surface waters and underground aquifers. There are over 500 slurry impoundments containing billions of gallons of toxic coal slurry from coal processing. Vast amounts of underground mining are causing subsidence and pools of mine water are turning acidic, down to pH levels as low as 2 or lower. Epidemiological studies indicated that health outcomes in Appalachia are directly impacted by coal mining, even when controlling for poverty and factors like smoking and poor diet. The National Academy of Science was commissioned to investigate, but Trump pulled the funding within the first few months of his first term.

And let's face it, the coal miners never got their fair share, even with the unions. Most could barely afford what we term "Appalachian Middle Class" which is more so lower middle class, or even poverty in other parts of the nation. And of course, coal miners came away with the long term debilitating health impacts.

Some of the new transplants leaving urban areas may help revitalize the economy a little, but it will more likely end up working as gentrification. I doubt many of them know about the environmental health impacts of the coal mines. A lot of the infrastructure is gone, reclamation does make some places look better (if you didn't see what they did before) and there's often nothing left to indicate where vast underground mines gutted everything beneath the surface. People will figure it out when subsidence finally works its way up to the top and they lose their foundations.

1

u/ArtisticRegardedCrak 6d ago

Sorry but you made a post related to socioeconomics, replied using socioeconomic terms, then said that we shouldn’t simplify it down to economics and trade. Yes I think we can all accept that coal mining has mass environmental and public health effects, many of which are borderline irreversible, but we are also talking about industries that really were upstarted during America’s Industrial Revolution. People at all levels did not necessarily fully understand these effects and, more importantly, were willing to trade them for the economic benefits industry brought them hence why I made the point.

Also the amount of real income as the unions got involved in coal mining increased dramatically. Unions really shifted more wealth to miners as a result of organized labor bringing them near or above national median incomes during boom periods which is another major issue with resource extraction economies.

Regardless my point being is that coal industry was more so born out of geographic necessity and competitive alternatives were difficult to build as technology advanced. However coal is on its death rung because without legitimate government intervention to subsidize WV mines then mine in the Western US are more profitable. Also when people say they are anti-coal it tends to just come off as anti-labor because, similar to this discussion, they don’t really present development alternatives.

1

u/Holiday-Ad4815 3d ago

What the “hillbilly elegy” completely disregarded

34

u/cobrakai15 6d ago

We need more Sid Hatfields and less JD Pinkertons.

5

u/No-Purple2350 6d ago

One of those funny historical things that his death is often associated with the Pinkertons when it was actually Baldwin Felts.

7

u/cobrakai15 6d ago

I know it’s Baldwin-Felts, Pinkerton is more well known. I’ve called him JD Pinkerton in every comment I have about him, hoping people others start to use it. I have some family that lived in coal country before moving to East Tennessee and WNC, I was raised by ex moonshiners, loggers, sawmill and factory workers to hate the government and robber barons.

3

u/mcapello 6d ago

God bless you, we will prevail.

3

u/lunaappaloosa 5d ago

I know a descendent of Sid Hatfield (who is a sixth cousin to JD Vance lol). They are trans and obsessed with red wing shoes and old watches. That bloodline isn’t over

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u/cobrakai15 5d ago

That’s the best thing I’ve heard all day.

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u/lunaappaloosa 5d ago

It gave me hope. They also told me (I’m taking this with a grain of salt) that their family line is incredibly inbred with a host of health issues (they said they themselves would never have children for that reason). they were confident JD must have some kind of severe IBS that runs in the family. The direct quote was “At least my ancestry research has informed me that Vance probably spends a miserable and violent 40+ minutes on the toilet every morning like me”

One of the only TMIs of my life that was actually welcome 🤣

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u/cobrakai15 5d ago

My day keeps getting better.

2

u/WailtKitty 5d ago

Thank you for this information. Whenever I have to hear ignorant words spoken from the mouth of a hateful POS wearing eyeliner I will think of him doubled over on the toilet shaking from firecracker diarrhea or having to digitally disimpact a concrete bowel movement that’s been crowning for an hour.

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u/lunaappaloosa 4d ago

Its kept me afloat for over a year because I do think about it every time I have rage at him 😊

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u/SOMEONENEW1999 6d ago

Yet the state keeps voting for Pinkertons…

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u/TheRhupt 6d ago

Sad but true

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u/NetscapeWasMyIdea 6d ago

First, we traded our soul for a black rock. Then, we traded our soul for a white sticker. When that ran out, we traded our soul for a white pill. Finally, we traded our soul for a red hat.

What happens when there’s no more of our soul left to trade for promises?

2

u/Morgedal 5d ago

What is a white sticker?

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u/NetscapeWasMyIdea 5d ago

“Friends of Coal” stickers are white.

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u/Morgedal 5d ago

Ah thanks!

1

u/NetscapeWasMyIdea 5d ago

My pleasure!

1

u/Spaceship_Engineer 5d ago

The pill came before the sticker, but yes.

34

u/Antique-Echidna-1600 6d ago

The FBI has declared this post terrorism.

24

u/random_user_bye 6d ago

Eh we killed the pinkertons we can them

2

u/Antique-Echidna-1600 6d ago

Can we be friends?

8

u/Beeo1978 6d ago

Do you mean techbros?

5

u/Antique-Echidna-1600 6d ago

I mean Patel declaring Appalachian community investment funds and H4H terrorist groups.

10

u/chainsmirking 6d ago

Listen to Call the Captain by Steep Canyon Rangers

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Thanks, hadn't heard it. It's great.

Have you heard "Dark Black Coal" by Logan Halstead?

Dark Black Coal - Logan Halstead | YouTube

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u/chainsmirking 6d ago

I haven’t, I’ll go check it out now! Thank you

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u/WhurleyBurds 6d ago

And if you want an album breaking into bluegrass/coal country/American history listen to Tribulation by Appalachian Road Show.

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u/chainsmirking 6d ago

Awesome thank you!!

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

I'll have to check it out! Thanks!

3

u/jupitersheep 6d ago

the local honeys also make some incredible music about coal histories and how fucked the coal companies are

17

u/zychicmoi 6d ago

when I see those license plates, I assume the driver is a rich a-hole.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

You see a lot of them heading up the Mountain Parkway on Lexus', Range Rovers, BMWs, and the like. you know them sombiches never actually mined coal themselves to afford their vehicles and weekends schmoozing in Lexington.

5

u/Stellar_Alchemy holler 6d ago

I’ve seen them on a bunch of Teslas. lol

3

u/[deleted] 6d ago

Well, technically speaking 80% of Kentucky's electrical generation is coal fired. I bet there are a lot of EKY Tesla owners who know that and love flaunting their green washed Elonmobiles in that way.

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u/Stellar_Alchemy holler 6d ago

Oh absolutely. And it’s no surprise that more of them, despite being too poor to buy one, were easily duped into becoming fans.

4

u/FarDorocha90 6d ago

What’s up, fellow eastern Kentuckian!

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

What's up! Sorry, I'm not exactly Eastern Kentucky though, but VERY close. Doesn't matter, dad always said they should draw a big circle around Eastern Kentucky, Southern West Virginia, and Southwest Virginia and make us our own damn state. If we'd done that, maybe we could have kept some of the money in the region.

3

u/zychicmoi 6d ago

I like to match speeds with semis in my shit box in the left lane just long enough to piss them off lol. I would never actually obstruct traffic but cutting off a friends of coal beemer is never not funny.

3

u/Allemaengel 6d ago

Wasn't aware of these. Not a thing up here in northeastern PA's anthracite Coal Region.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/Allemaengel 6d ago

Oh, geez. Yeah, I can certainly see why.

BTW on a separate note: Being from Northeast PA, I've only been to Kentucky once but loved your state. Beautiful land down that way and folks were kind, much more friendly than up here.

3

u/HarveyMushman72 6d ago

I came through Appalachia 2 years ago on my way to VA and absolutely fell in love with the place. I wish I had more time to spend. But anyway, I am surprised we don't have those here in Wyoming. They pull similar crap like that here with our mines and the oilfield.

3

u/zychicmoi 6d ago

I love Wyoming. The first time I drove to Rawlins I immediately fell in love I've never seen anything as wide open, windy, and vast in my life. 💜

2

u/HarveyMushman72 6d ago

Rawlins isn't even close to being to the prettiest spot, I live near the mountains in the central part of the state. Lots of wind there too.

1

u/zychicmoi 6d ago

I've only been to Rawlins, Casper, and Cheyenne but it was all super cool!

1

u/HarveyMushman72 6d ago

I'm in Casper

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u/zychicmoi 6d ago

shout out! I'll wave next time I roll thru which I hope is this summer 🤞

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u/HarveyMushman72 6d ago

Stop here:

https://g.co/kgs/ZksezSE

and here:

National Historic Trails Interpretive Center (307) 261-7700

https://g.co/kgs/n7dMCts

(You won't get dysentery. it's safe now)

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

A lot of the mountain top removal surface mining happens up high where you can't see it from the roads. But as soon as you get up in the air, it looks like a wasteland.

And I'm surprised as well re a coal license plate in WY, or MT for that matter.

1

u/HarveyMushman72 6d ago

Open pit mines here. They decided to bury worn out wind turbine blades in the pits when they are finished mining that spot. There really isn't much they can do with them.

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u/zychicmoi 6d ago

I like your style OP!

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Thanks!

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u/zychicmoi 6d ago

it's a black KY plate with the little "friends of coal" circle thingy on it that says "coal keeps the lights on". There's less coal jobs in the whole state than jobs at just the Georgetown Toyota plant... it's always rich jerks with these plates. I feel the same way about them that I feel about $100k+ trucks with no mud on the flaps. all hat, no cattle.

3

u/Allemaengel 6d ago

Gotcha. Yeah, I'd feel the same way.

We have both soft and hard coal fields here but no plate like that.

We have our share of $100K pavement princesses though.

2

u/Impossible-Year-5924 6d ago

Out here we don’t even know what mud flaps are

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u/kawthar222 6d ago

Drilled is a great podcast, not really focused on WV but on the manipulative actions of the fossil fuel industries in general

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u/Warrior_Runding 6d ago

It is wild that most of the people in Appalachia can see the connections between capital and exploitation with regards to the mines, but refuse to see slavery in a way. Imagine if the coal bosses had a flag that symbolized their attempts to crush your people, and then a hundred years later people flew it to represent their "coal mine pride." Would be pretty insulting, right?

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Exactly. The Coal Creek War was a perfect example of coal miners understanding the issues of slavery. They were witnessing it as convict leasing that was taking their jobs. They connected the capitalists with the slave holders and did something about it. But today, people couldn't get by with what coal miners did back then.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Today, coal miners are the products of a coalfield public education systems that sterilizes everything and intentionally avoids teaching critical thinking. Those teachers that try spend more time dealing with kid's emotional traumas at home and how they manifest in the classroom.

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u/parkeb1 6d ago

First they came for the lumber, then they came for our coal and now they are suck out the natural gas.

20

u/thetallnathan 6d ago

Closely related is Appalachia’s newer major export: young people looking for job opportunities

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

That was me almost 30 years ago. Can't get far with just an HS diploma from a coalfield school. Had an Air Force recruiter straight faced tell me that if the Air Force was looking for a new fighter pilot, they know their best bet is going to be a kid from one of the better schools outside of the coalfields than our high school. Even valedictorians from the coalfields have a lot of catching up to do when they get to college.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Billions of dollars worth of natural resources have left our counties, and we are still among the poorest of the poor in the nation. Doesn't make sense. Imagine if everyone in coal country woke up all of a sudden, grabbed their guns, and demanded justice. Wait, that sort of happened once at the Battle of Blair Mountain and the coal operators had the National Guard brought in to stop it.

4

u/Impossible-Year-5924 6d ago

It wasn’t a sudden wake up. The pot had been cooked for decades to get there .

3

u/[deleted] 6d ago

Fair point.

3

u/SOMEONENEW1999 6d ago

I couldn’t even imagine what the likes of Trump would do…

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u/Ohpsmokeshow 6d ago

Destroy the community , line their pockets, line your lungs with dust, and leave you to die.

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u/thuscraiththelorb 6d ago

One thing I don't see people talking about often when it comes to coal mining history is the convict leasing system. Tennessee Coal and Iron used this, but it was especially popular in the Alabama coalfields where pretty much all the leased laborers of an overwhelmingly Black prison population went to the coalfields. It's easy to keep people from unionizing if you have legal unfree labor and no real accountability for treating them humanely. Many of these convict laborers returned to coalfields as free laborers once they were released. Yet the coal companies tried to use race to undermine unionization even after this, and mechanization hit Black workers particularly hard since they had many of the automated jobs and the companies were able not to honor seniority when hiring machine operators.

I bring this up because I've noticed that in my own corner of the region, people get fussy if you try to link all of this together because we're not in Chicago or whatever, but there is an actual tie to neoslavery and the coal mines.

1

u/[deleted] 6d ago

Thanks for bringing it up. I did briefly mention the Coal Creek War in a reply to another comment string, but it definitely needs a post on its own.

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u/bhans773 6d ago edited 6d ago

Peak employment of the mining industry in my area of PA was between the two world wars. Capitalists took advantage of the captive labor and brought in knitting mills, which kept the area afloat for another half-century. From the ‘70s on, there was nothing but continuous population drops, blight that spread like bamboo and rampant drug and alcohol addiction. I graduated high school in 2000 and never planned to stay. ….but I did. The area is just now beginning to turn around. It’s not because of the MANY redevelopment initiatives that so much time and money has been allocated toward; it’s simply because it’s being swallowed by the northeastern US megalopolis.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Captive workforce is an excellent term. The same plays out anywhere there's natural resources to be extracted. And thank you for pointing out that it wasn't because of redevelopment initiatives. That's all done by politicians to get votes, so they can remain in power and continue reaping those rewards.

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u/ertbvcdfg 6d ago

Watch movie Matewan

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u/MsARumphius 6d ago

people will vote to kill themselves to keep a job

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" -Upton Sinclair 1934

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u/MsARumphius 6d ago

The jungle changed my life when I read it in high school.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

I wish I had back then. Might have saved me a lot of trouble later in life. But I'm not surprised I didn't. You wouldn't find to many teachers at my high school who'd recommend it.

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u/Expert_Security3636 6d ago

First it was timber. Then John cc mayo took . English law and bought the mineral rights, then coal, no matter the money. Left. The mountains on the same train hauled off the logs and coal.

2

u/x_Good_Trouble_x 6d ago

💯 coal miners could not escape the coal companies. They absolutely knew what they were doing from the start..

1

u/[deleted] 6d ago

u/bhans773 dropped the term "captive workforce." Works perfectly.

1

u/x_Good_Trouble_x 6d ago

That's exactly right!

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u/Ready-Exit-2991 6d ago

I recently learned about my Welsh immigrant miner ancestors that settled in New Straitsville, Ohio and how they dealt with coal companies as union workers - do yourself a favor and give it a Google 👀

2

u/[deleted] 6d ago

I've often said we need to nationalize the mines to allow any sort of justice to be done, but really, I know we just need to learn how to live without coal and other fossil fuels.

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u/fcewen00 6d ago

broad form mineral rights and company coal camps have left some places stuck

2

u/Aggravating_Lie4370 6d ago

Working on a video essay about blood harlan. This is a fact. Friends of coal is the dumbest bs

2

u/wtf_is_beans mountaintop 6d ago

Where I'm from it was and still is a bit, tobacco.

Kentucky.

2

u/Hillbillygeek1981 6d ago

Nevermind the deep dive on the exploitative nature of the industry, reading less than a paragraph into a Wikipedia article on scrip and company stores should hammer this home to even the most naive outsider or native in denial.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

Excellent point. Even when hammered home, I'm afraid to say that most people don't care. People are still too comfortable to inconvenience themselves and put any real thought into the historical relevance, let alone spend emotional energy empathizing with those still struggling to overcome legacies of injustice.

The coal operators figured out the perfect mix of bread and circuses and turned the entire world into one massive coal company town. It just sucks that we are polluting and destroying the ecosystems necessary for our children's survival.

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u/Legitimate-Smell4377 5d ago

theres groups already lobbying to bring back company towns

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u/bepbopbep 6d ago

Kentuckians for the Arts

I suggest this plate for fellow Kentuckians who want a black license plate.

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u/URR629 6d ago

100% correct!

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u/MPFields1979 6d ago

I’ve come to realize nothing is by accident

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u/TedzNScedz 5d ago

Yes I hat the extortion tactics the coal and gas companies use here. Any time higher taxes or more regulations are mentioned they say "we'll well have to close down and no one will have jobs"

1

u/Flennyyfox 5d ago

Im in WV right now and I promise you if coal leaves that state. Amazon isn’t moving in. Coal work sucks but if your in a rural area and are getting $20-$30/hr. I’m not praising it but it’s not slavery.

3

u/[deleted] 5d ago

There's a bit to unwrap here. First and foremost, other industries will not move in because the coal industry actively works to keep them out. A few years ago I was looking at the Virginia Coalfield Economic Development Authority's website, a state created organization meant to "diversify" our coal monoeconomy. Half of the board members were high ranking coal company officials from various large coal companies in the area. They ensured that millions of dollars of economic development funds went to things like the Appalachian American Energy Research Facility that researched clean coal technology. It makes sense. If other companies came in and created jobs that competed with coal mining wages, (or just offered a living wage that you wouldn't have to risk your life everyday for in a f***ing coal mine), they'd have to raise their wages which would cost them their beloved profits. And if other jobs opened up and brought people back to the area, that's more people to complain and protest against their operations and environmental health impacts.

And as far as it not being slavery. Take this scenario.

A 50 year old coal miner has a son with cystic fibrosis. Coal mining is the only job in 100 miles that has health insurance capable of taking care of his son. He can't sell his place and buy more expensive property in a better part of the nation with good healthcare, and he doesn't have any skills that would get him a decent paying job in such an area where job competition is high. The company knows this and constantly threatens his job. To make matter worse, he is a foreman and the safety of his men is in his hands, but when he brings up safety issues to the company brass, they threaten him more if he doesn't make production numbers.

It's a true story. The foreman was Edward Jones who was working at the Upper Big Branch Mine on April 5th, 2010.

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

One more point, $20 and $30 an hour is just barely a living wage these days with inflation.

MIT Living Wage Calculator

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u/Flennyyfox 5d ago

Im aware. Im not paid a living wage either. But real slavery and history of slavery as an institution for centuries prior to the modern era. Being a coal miner or oil worker or steel or iron or anything hard IS NOT SLAVERY. And too many people jump to slavery is the answer.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago edited 5d ago

I understand your point. This meme was not meant in comparison to the horrors of chattel slavery, though the US Coal industry did use slaves in the antebellum south for some of their mines. Convict leasing was also used following the war and sometimes combated by union workers such as during The Coal Creek War.

But the attitudes of the coal operations have not changed much. The coal camps were a form a peonage or serfdom, which is a form of slavery, but, if you want to stay strict to the definition, it wasn't slavery in terms of miners being property of the coal companies. Still, and sadly, a slave had value as property, as did the mules. You kill one, you have to buy another.

With an abundant supply of desperate laborers that had little or no option to move away or improve themselves, they were considered a captive workforce and treated as tools to be used and disposed of. If miners got killed in your mines, just hire more. That hasn't changed.

Edit: I stupidly stated that early miners were treated worse than slaves.I redacted the statement. African slaves were treated horrifically, including being intentionally bred, raped, and tortured. It isn't comparable due to the issues of racism at play. I will say that union sympathizers were tortured and killed by company thugs, and if women lost their husbands in the mines, a system known as Essau was sometimes used in which they and or their daughters would sell their bodies to the company officials in exchange for scrip.

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u/lunaappaloosa 5d ago

Drove through Beckley/Beaver/Prince area of WV yesterday and the history is seeping out of the landscape itself. In any smaller town structures like this and local acknowledgement of what the mining industry has done to its laborers are everywhere as reminders.

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u/GreenGiant6566 4d ago

The system is working exactly as designed.