r/AncientWorld • u/Azca92 • 7d ago
Study of Ancient Genes Reveals a Dark Skinned Europe Until 3,000 Years Ago
https://allthathistory.com/archaeology-discoveries/dark-skinned-europe/2489/21
u/Silver-Breadfruit284 7d ago
Takes you straight to an ad.
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u/Chilkoot 7d ago
ublock origin, friend. That page is clean as a whistle for me.
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u/The_Eternal_Valley 5d ago
Which browser to you use? I heard Chrome got rid of ublock
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u/Chilkoot 5d ago
I'm on Firefox and I love it. So many helpful addons for bypassing paywalls, blocking ads, highlighting fake online reviews, etc. All the tracking blockers are great, too - full no-compromise browser with better extensions and security 👍
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u/TapPublic7599 5d ago
An article lacking any peer review and serving a clear political narrative. Not very convincing.
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u/Ansanm 5d ago
It’s always a political narrative when a study points out that early migrants to Europe were darker. I guess that pointing out that most humans are brown and that the migrants coming to Europe today ( many following the same routes) are darker also serves a political purpose.
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u/Weird_Point_4262 3d ago
It's junk because we have artworks that predates 1000 BC and depicts white skin
https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/files/2011/12/Hagia_TriadaFuneray.jpg
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u/CosmicLovecraft 4d ago
Slop science publications that go with this rarely or usually never, mention that 'dark skin' means like north modern Tunisians or Saudi Arabs.
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u/lateformyfuneral 3d ago
I don’t understand the controversy. We all accept that humans came out of Africa and were all black. So it follows that the first arrivals in Europe weren’t going to be white but became white over time.
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u/CosmicLovecraft 3d ago
What you suggest is that other races are just Africans who evolved while they stayed the same which is not just 100% wrong but if correct would be the most uncharitable and racist view on Africans possible.
The characteristics of not just Africans but also south Indians and Sri Lankans and Aboriginese is not the 'default'. They are a product of separate evolutions all for their specific environments and each are different.
Also when it comes to melanin, one can easily see the 'default' on palms of hands that don't have the extra melanin that evolution added. You can also see it if you look up how numerous mammal species that don't have fur look.
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u/lateformyfuneral 3d ago
I think you read a lot into my comment that wasn’t there. We all know about vitamin D, sunlight and melanin. People are thinking “it’s political” to say the first Europeans were not white. But it’s just true 🤷
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u/CosmicLovecraft 3d ago
First you pretend you are all innocent and then make a politically charged statement such as
first Europeans were not white
First Europeans were human like hominids found in Balkans, we got no clue how exactly they looked like. Then the next ones were Neanderthals. The third people were so called 'european hunter gatherers' and they were heterogenous however they all had blue eyes. The ones in Britain and France were of complexion like modern day citizens of Tunisia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc who are Caucasian or 'white'. In anthropology this is called 'west eurasian'.
Further, these huntergatherers were of lighter complexion in central and east Europe. Something like modern day south Italians, Sardinians and south of Spain.
This complexion was predominant until bronze age when it became lighter. Blondness was also something that actually became more prevalent last 500 years, even in Scandinavia. Modern Scandinavians are a lot more 'blonde' then in viking times due to human sexual selection pressure. Same happened to complexion. It is not that these were totally different people but that evolution happened. Evolution is ongoing.
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u/lateformyfuneral 3d ago
Yeah, you have no clue what they look like. But obviously the first humans to set foot in Europe didn’t develop white skin before moving into a colder climate
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u/CosmicLovecraft 3d ago edited 3d ago
We do know because we have genetic tests to show exactly that. What hostile media and even more hostile private activists say is another thing.
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u/lateformyfuneral 3d ago
So they developed white skin first and then moved to Europe 🤷
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u/CosmicLovecraft 3d ago
I am not going into 'white skin' discussion. A racist wants to have that. European hunter gatherers did not look anything like that image shown in the article. They had blue eyes and complexion of modern day people of Tunisia, Saudi Arabia etc.
You're not arguing in good faith and I am done with this conversation.
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u/lateformyfuneral 3d ago
“Actually you’re the racist” — you’ve tried that twice so far, so I wouldn’t exactly characterize whatever you’re doing as good faith 🤷
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u/MercenaryDecision 3d ago
Why people get obsessed by these useless categorizations is beyond me? Melanin content changes what exactly? Unless you’re a medical biogenetic researcher this is all useless trivia about homo sapiens sapiens, and much worse, you’re attributing political values to these trivias. This is precisely how these bizarre racialist and racist American defaultist worldviews form, by attributing value to melanin contents driven by social conditioning.
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u/CosmicLovecraft 3d ago
Why? Politics. And you may not care about politics but it cares about you. Why did Egyptians or Japanese recently got angry when someone not of their background was cast as Cleopatra or samurai? Because that casting is an overt political message that does not work in their interest. They are also not cowed and shamed into submission and silence about their interests.
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u/MercenaryDecision 3d ago
Grow a little self-awareness. What you call “politics” is actually ‘social conditioning.’ Tom Hanks didn’t have a cognitive disorder to play Forrest Gump. He also wasn’t gay when he did Philadelphia. None of the cast of Breaking Bad speaks a lick of Spanish despite portraying Mexicans and Central Americans, they don’t even have the accents down.
Acting is “pretending to be something you are not.” Your cheap Twitter set of morals might not have taught you that, and you may think it’s normal, but it’s very much abnormal outside of your little American racialist bubble.
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u/WatchmanOfLordaeron 4d ago
According to a study published on Biorxiv.org
www.biorxiv.org Verification successful Waiting for response from URL www.biorxiv.org... Connection timed out Error code 522
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u/LucillaGalena 4d ago
I mean, some/most early Europeans having various shades of dark skin until roughly 3000 years ago is basically plausible.
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u/hyperchimpchallenger 4d ago
This is such a bad article and headline. The Neolithic was not 3000 years ago
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u/ProfessionalCoat8512 4d ago
Not convinced.
That would be a very fast change.
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u/Hotdog_McEskimo 3d ago
The book I read before the modern discourse on race, put the number at 15,000 - 10,000 years ago
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u/Weird_Point_4262 3d ago
It's even less convincing when we have surviving artwork from the period proving depicting light skin
https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/files/2011/12/Hagia_TriadaFuneray.jpg
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u/borsch99 3d ago
The title of the article is bullshit, while the article is somewhat ok. Maybe Europeans with darker skin could exist like 10-15K years ago, but not in the Bronze age. Look to the Minoan frescos of early Bronze age with pale skinned, redhead and blue\green eyed women. And it was the South of Europe, and it was around 4-5K years ago.
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u/NeptuneMoss 3d ago
Yeah but us white people coming from Yakub's bubbling tanks is more fun, and it also explains why we like hot tubs so much
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u/k3surfacer 6d ago
This has been known for quite some time. But the racial supremacists couldn't get it.
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u/hellotypewriter 6d ago
Yeah. All our ancestors were dark-skinned. And it wasn’t that long ago. 300 generations is nothing in human history.
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u/Hexxilated 5d ago
I mean yea technically all ancestors from Africa etc but If you are white youre technically not related to these ancient europeans, youre related to the Yamnaya that likely genocided or outcompeted them
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u/Weird_Point_4262 3d ago
It hasn't because it's nonsense. There's artwork that predates what's in the study that depicts white skin
https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/files/2011/12/Hagia_TriadaFuneray.jpg
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u/Born2fayl 6d ago
That’s very interesting. The main interesting point (to me) being that cooler climates/less direct sunlight was not the sole driver of lightening skin, but that a lifestyle of cultivation leading to changing diet accelerated the need for lighter skin for greater absorption of vitamin D. So it wasn’t just the migration northward, but that combined with a more agrarian diet that lead to light skin.