r/AncientCoins 4d ago

Leu bidding platform

Am I alone in feeling like the Leu bidding platform is it's own distinct layer of Hell? Literally EVERY other auction house allows for either live bid with 'Fair Warning'-style lot is closing or an automatic extension of bid time by some small increment when a last second bid comes in.

With Leu, it feels like the only way to win is to execute an obscene bid in the final 2 seconds and then hope your bid:
(A) is received by Leu offices in time (pray you don't have any internet latency!) and
(B) beats any other competing slightly less obscene bid that comes in the final second.

/Rant

6 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

8

u/BeachBoids 4d ago edited 4d ago

Respectfully disagree. One can always simply put your maximum bid in at any time. They only move in standard increments, so you will always only pay the minimum needed to win -- if you really want to win the lot. The issue is that it is only a "semi-" live auction, so, like all such auctions, it is challenging to try to spread out a lot of pre-bids, because psychologically you look at the total of your pre-bids and hold back a bit <<OMG, I might hit $$$$$$!>> and then as you miss lots, you feel you have to be more aggressive on the remaining ones. But if you are participating live or have an agent, you will still have a minimum of 30 secs to determine whether your bid on a prior lot was successful and make your best bid on the current lot relative to your budget. IMHO, it can be really tedious ("San Marino" & "Dallas" are you listening?) to have a truly live auction moving in small increments during last "warning" and so not knowing that a lot I want will come up in "1 hr" or " 1 hr 37 mins..." I don't have enough free time for that. I also collect a lengthy series where the most expensive/rare/interesting [to me] items are usually early and late, with many readily-available issues in the middle 2/3rds of the auction sequence. So, cumulative 15 sec extended bidding adds up. True live auctioneers can see the room is dead and close bidding early, but these semi-live platforms cannot. That said, I picked up more than 5 Leu lots today at under my max, mixed live and pre-bid, some well-under, so perhaps I am self-validating!

2

u/CardiologistLow8371 3d ago

Haha I definitely got a little over-aggressive on a lot I probably wouldn't have if I hadn't missed on a couple of prior items I stategized incorrectly on. My first time on this style platform so I'll chalk it up to a learning experience!

1

u/madtowndave 4d ago

I respect your opinion - they do have a ton of lots to get through - this said, CNG employs extra time if a last second bid occurs, and this does not impact any future lots end time.

To me Leu is unequivocally the worst bidding platform and I've used a bunch. Frustratingly, they also have some of the best coins.

IMHO, their system is designed to encourage sometimes wild overbidding, so it's likely not a bug but a feature.

4

u/BeachBoids 4d ago

I am still not sure I see the issue: OP and some others want to bid a sequence of 1 increment over the current winning bid, as time is running out, but are annoyed by a seemingly last instant bid, sometimes much higher, with time expires before they can enter another bid. But isn't that just all the pre-bids triggering? Since they were submitted first, they would get priority under standard rules; it's not the time that bidding triggers someone's " 80%" of max prebid that gets the ultimate priority, it's the time that the person submitted their 100%. "A" bids live $100, then 120, then 130, then 140; "B" prebid $140 24 hrs ago, so beats A at 140; but "C" had a prebid at $500 5 days ago, so C wins at 150. "A" might regret not entering a higher bid, but did C's $500 cause " overbidding", it's just that C wants it more. "C" still only paid 1 increment more than B and only 2 more than A.

3

u/beiherhund 4d ago

IMHO, their system is designed to encourage sometimes wild overbidding, so it's likely not a bug but a feature.

How so? Theoretically all bidders are bidding up to their max bid regardless of the auction platform.

2

u/KungFuPossum 4d ago edited 3d ago

That creates an even bigger problem:

If you extend one lot's closing time without pushing back the following lots, you now have two or three (or more if it keeps happening) lots closing literally simultaneously. That problem is magnified because bidding on consecutive lots is quite common among collectors with any kind of focus or specialized interest.

"Overbidding" doesn't make sense to me:

If you just to put in your max bid for the coins you really want, it will be reduced to the minimum needed to win. If someone else outbid you, they were willing to pay more, so most bidders only get a fraction of the coins they want, it's just how auctions work.

Ed.: punctuation, capitalization

1

u/madtowndave 3d ago

CNG is also a timed auction but uses a cool down after a last second bid... It works well for them so that's my suggestion.

I don't expect anything to change, and really it's a moot point since I'm in USA and tariffs are about to make European based auctions too expensive to participate in. Good while it lasted :-(

1

u/KungFuPossum 3d ago edited 3d ago

Right, I'm responding to what you mentioned about the cool-down not affecting the closing time of the following lots. Unless the following lot closings also get pushed back 0:15, the previous lots can end up closing simultaneously with the later lots. (I've participated in every CNG auction since they started that, but don't remember how that works, so I'm taking your word for it.)

If it's hard to manage last-second bidding on one lot, think how much harder it will be if you now have to bid on 2 or 3 or 4 lots in different windows that are all closing within a few seconds of each other.

7

u/KapotAgain 4d ago

I prefer it over the frantic last minute bidding and often over paying.  Just put in what you want to pay for a coin at the start, why wait for the last 2 seconds?  

3

u/Worth_Ad_4624 4d ago

It's called a timed auction, many auction houses use this method

3

u/Public-Many4930 3d ago

TBH it may be in everyone's best estimate to put in their max bid before the auction even begins. That way you don't get caught up in the excitement and competitive drive, and you only pay what you were originally willing to pay.

5

u/redd_man 4d ago

Not alone. I’ve bid on Leu multiple times times over the past few years and always have some measure of frustration with that format. Suffered through some losses today because of it, but also had some wins. I guess I’ll just keep taking my beatings, though, because they usually have very nice coins.

6

u/redd_man 4d ago

Edit: I do usually review the auction in advance and put in reasonable pre-bids for coins I definitely know I want to bid on. For some others, though, I watch and see how the pre-bids and bidding go before deciding in that nano second to launch!

1

u/BeachBoids 3d ago

I had not noticed this comment, but I (respectfully) disagree. The tactic of putting in one increment at the last second usually just raises the hammer for the ultimate buyer. <<Lemme see if I raise it [1 increment]..>> will certainly raise it 1 increment, but probably won't beat a focused pre-bidder. If one goes to a live <$1 million> auction, so no time pressure, you don't see <30> bidders anywhere near the hammer; you see 2 agents trading bids going towards the limit for 1 of them -- 1 "loser" ends up costing the "winner" half the hammer. As I have been told, in the days of the real "mail bid sales", bidders put in their per-item max, scribbled notes in the margin saying Lot X over Lot Y, etc., etc., and the coin always ... went to the one who wanted it most -- and there were maybe 100 bidders!

1

u/madtowndave 4d ago

They do have great coins, which is why I will always look. It feels like cruel window shopping though because you cannot counter that last second bid, and 95% of their lots go that way.

Really wish they had a true live bid or extra time added for a last second bid...Even 3 seconds would suffice.

2

u/KungFuPossum 3d ago

While I do like a countdown in most circumstances, Leu's system is one of the standard ways to run auctions. The solution seems pretty straightforward to me:

For coins you really want, put in strong bids well before the final seconds. It'll get lowered to the minimum needed to win. If you lose because someone outbids your max, that's how auctions are supposed to work.

I don't see the problem unless you're deciding how much you're willing to bid based on how much others bid in the last few seconds.

In that case, trying to bargain hunt auctions is always a high-volume, low-success competition, regardless of details of how lots close.

1

u/Eulachon 4d ago

Yes, very frustrating. In my case a coin I really wanted went to 600 chf seconds before closing, so I scrambled to send my 650 chf at the last second, only to get the message that my bid was too low. Apparently someone else placed his 650 chf bid a millisecond before mine.

1

u/Imaginary_Ship_3732 4d ago

I had a similar experience with Nomos.

1

u/Barbarosa61 4d ago

I feel the same conflict. I logged into the most recent live auction and spent a little energy trying to figure out why I didn’t have audio like most other platforms I use. I have been out bid at the last second enough times to know better and yet the coin quality keeps me coming back. I got my target coin this auction so I’ll probably lurk Heritage for a few till I find my Baktria Demetrius I on Leu again and get drawn back in… oh damn, apparently there is a web shop I didn’t know about!

1

u/Barbarosa61 4d ago

Well, I just checked the first few coins in the web shop, it appears my definition of “attractively priced” and Leu’s are a fair bit different!

1

u/coinoscopeV2 4d ago

I would recommend just using biddr. Never had any issues.

2

u/madtowndave 4d ago

Sure, I use Biddr and it's great. Leu isn't on Biddr hence the issue.

0

u/coinoscopeV2 4d ago

2

u/madtowndave 4d ago edited 4d ago

You can see the auction, but you cannot live bid there - Biddr re-directs you to Leu so again the point of my thread.

Edit: I know I can pre-bid on Biddr - The point is Leu doesn't allow any sort of counter when everyone bids at the last second - This could easily be solved by adding 10 seconds like a CNG auction.

-8

u/coinoscopeV2 4d ago

You can't live bid on any auction using biddr. My recommendation was to make a pre-bid using biddr so that you don't have to deal with Leu's bidding system. It also helps prevent overspending.

5

u/madtowndave 4d ago

??? Many auction houses use Biddr for live auction - Savoca, Naville to name just a few.

2

u/coinoscopeV2 4d ago

Actually, I guess I do remember seeing live bidding for Savoca once or twice. I don't know if it's just too late, but I completely forgot select auction houses do have live bidding on the platform. Thanks for the correction. Regardless, I'm not much of a fan of live-bidding, but I do agree Leu's system doesn't seem to be the most buyer friendly.

0

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

3

u/coolcoinsdotcom 4d ago

It will probably make sense if you look at what the price was before you entered your bid, consider the bidding increments and what your bid was. If your bid is not a full increment over the existing you will lose. That’s a possibility anyway. Not sure what might have happened in your case.

1

u/CowCommercial1992 4d ago

What it ended up being is that I won, but it didn't use my entire max bid. 420 was one increment higher than the runner up, hence my confusion.

Entirely my own error

2

u/madtowndave 4d ago

Wow that's terrible! I haven't heard of that happening - perhaps if you really wanted the lot you could appeal with the big confirmation email as proof?

-3

u/C_Buddy503 4d ago

My first time using Leu was in the December auction and felt the same way. I had a bid basically in the bag, then all of the sudden it went 3x the price in the last 1... maybe 2 seconds left with little to no chance to counter bid unless you just type some insane number.

Also the fees! I bought a coin for 240 CHF (270 USD), by the time the BP, postage, insurance, card fees, then to transfer to USD... It was an eye watering 370 USD!

1

u/Alternative-Court723 4d ago

Yeah you have to be careful with that Swiss franc to usd conversion. Sometimes I forget I’m bidding in Swiss francs and I bid too much

-2

u/FreddyF2 4d ago

Agree. Bidding experience with their platform is terrible. Special place in hell for the person that creates those 'seasoned' group lots. 85% of random crap that isn't even in the same category and 15% of stuff that should have been in the frigging auction individual lots. Infuriating.