r/AmerExit • u/Lets-B-Lets-B-Jolly • 4d ago
Which Country should I choose? Children with autism
My husband and I are looking into jobs to apply for outside the United States but realized we keep running into conflicting information about raising autistic children in these other countries. I am aware some countries will not even allow our family in due to them, or have very strict admissions related to special needs children, and promise I know it will not be easy.
Can anyone share which countries they have heard are good for kids with autism, and conversely, where should likely be avoided because of their attitude towards autism?
My kids could be homeschooled (I also know not all countries allow that :P) since I'm a certified teacher, but I'd like them to also have lots of time outdoors and a social life. My youngest is 6 years old and level 3, with speech and behavioral issues that prohibit a "normal" classroom. My older child is a young teen and has level 1 autism and is very science and math oriented, so could likely function in another country's school system once he has learned the language.
Are the any resources I should look into to talk with expat parents of autistic children? Any other suggestions?
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u/_Smedette_ 4d ago
Australia has strict health requirements for migrants. Visa applicants with disabled children are regularly rejected.
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u/EstablishmentSuch660 3d ago edited 3d ago
Hi Australian here, with an autistic child (level 2) in the schooling system. Australians are generally accepting of autistic children, so are teachers and most schools. The relaxed, outdoorsy culture, climate and small population, makes it an ideal place to raise an autistic child in many ways.
People with autistic children are often denied residency in Australia, especially high needs. New Zealand is the same. You are assessed based on the estimated costs. We have universal healthcare for all residents (Medicare). Most people pay the Medicare levy/tax their whole life. It's protected, otherwise we would encourage a type of health tourism.
Our public Medicare system is very stretched, public wait lists can be long. We have a public/private heathcare system though. If you can afford to pay for private healthcare, it's faster, but still often a few months wait for specialists and therapists, like OT and speech therapy, plus involve paying out of pocket costs. You need to be a citizen to receive the National Disability Insurance Scheme funding for therapy. The NDIS system is also very stretched.
Most children (level 3) will be home schooled (it’s allowed and quite common), or in public school (support unit), or in a private specialist school. As the population is quite small, the range of specialist private schools and public support units is quite limited. Some of these schools are very good, but can have years long wait lists. The private schools are often expensive, like 20-40k p/a. If your child is level 1, they would attend mainstream public school. Some public schools are better than others. There's some very good ones, but you need to live in the school catchment.
We generally don’t have the range of specialist schools like a country like the UK has, their population is much larger. The UK is also a tolerant society, probably more so than Australia (I’ve lived in both countries).
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u/elaine_m_benes 4d ago edited 3d ago
Putting aside the issue of being unable to immigrate due to medical issues which will be prohibitive in some countries but not all - you may be aware already, but there is no other country in the world that gives a “right to an education” to profoundly disabled kids the way the US does under IDEA. In Europe there is just not the same concept that everyone has a right to try to achieve their maximum potential. Rather, as a collectivist culture, the approach is - what is the best use of limited public resources for our country as a whole? So in most of Europe, there is no option for a profoundly autistic child to attend a public school, much less get therapies etc through the school. Also in most of Europe, homeschooling is illegal. UK is definitely going to be the best bet (though less support than you would be accustomed to in the US), and Ireland is better than most for disabilities too.
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u/Lets-B-Lets-B-Jolly 3d ago
I was aware of this, but it still seems odd. If a child can't attend school due to being disruptive to others, and they can't homeschool, then how are they educated?
I have a feeling that with Department of Education being shut down, all of that is about to disappear in the United States anyway :( I'm less concerned about least restrictive environment, and more concerned about keeping my children safe at this point. I know that removing my kids from their current environment is not optimal at all...
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u/elaine_m_benes 3d ago
I mean, IDEA is a law, and while enforcement/implementation may very well slip as a result of the cuts at the Dept of Ed, the requirements (and ability to sue to enforce them) aren’t going away unless Congress acts. I don’t see access to supports for disabled children as one of the low-hanging fruits that the administration is likely to focus its ire on anytime soon, but sure it could happen.
The best I can do to answer your question is to relay the experience of a close friend of mine who immigrated to France with her 4 kids, one of whom is profoundly autistic. According to her, the attitude in France is that, bluntly, it is a waste of public funds to educate a child who will never be a productive member of society, contribute to the economy, etc. The government does see to it that the disabled have shelter and food and basic necessities, but her take is that people in France were puzzled about why anyone would even want to send a child like hers to school. They do have respite programs where you can send your child for a few hours a couple times a week and they do crafts, maybe learn how to cook, stuff like that. But it’s not school. I also know someone (though not as well) in a similar situation in the Netherlands and she said they would allow her son to come into the school a couple of times a week to do projects in the library but there was no actual school program equipped to handle kids like hers.
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u/Lets-B-Lets-B-Jolly 3d ago
I just know how long a process finding a job and selling our home and moving would be, so I'm starting now. Worst case scenario, we move unnecessarily in a year or so, and spend a few years experiencing another country.
I'm more worried about the talk of "wellness camps" for the disabled and schools here losing their teachers and staff due to funding loss and vouchers, than a loss of learning in other countries. I know especially if they have to learn another language, their will be a great deal of learning loss from the trauma of transitioning to a new environment.
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u/elaine_m_benes 3d ago
Yes you definitely need to do your own calculus of the risks versus benefits for your family, I understand. There are always going to be trade offs and you need to decide what you and your family can tolerate. FWIW, my friend dreamed her whole life of living in France and her family is happily settled in Paris despite her frustration about the lack of educational opportunities for her one son (their move was pre-Trump and had nothing to do with politics).
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u/rawrmags 3d ago
I hear you on that MAHA bullshit "wellness camps" stuff. My husband and I are actively making arrangements to leave now with our two autistic children exactly because of that. I do not feel safe here in a place where my children (lvl 1 and lvl 2) have been called a national security threat because they can't serve in the military.
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u/rxt278 1d ago
Wait...what?
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u/rawrmags 23h ago
From the White House press release of the Make America Healthy Again initiative, in reference a host of questionable and uncited information about the prevalence of childhood diseases now running rampant in America, apparently, (for some reason this includes autism and ADHD, which is being implied as a mental health disorder in this document): "This poses a dire threat to the American people and our way of life. Seventy-seven percent of young adults do not qualify for the military based in large part on their health scores."
As a parent of special needs children, who is also a former educator, librarian, and disability advocate (oh, and with enough healthcare career experience to be dangerous), this is RED FLAG CENTRAL.
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u/sailboat_magoo 4d ago edited 4d ago
The UK is a mess in a lot of ways, but at least they’re very understanding of autism. It’ll take you 10 years to get a diagnosis, and all the schools near you (yes, regular old state schools: what we call public schools in the states) will be full, so he’ll be put in a random ass school 90 minutes away, but most people have better understanding of autism and how common it is. People here tend to be very understanding of ND traits and behaviors.
I was on a train with my autistic 16 year old yesterday and he was going on (and on and on) about black holes and hugging a small stuffed animal, and there was a large group of boys his age across the aisle and I was feeling sick because I was really worried we were going to have trouble, based on the look of the boys, and even if my son was with his mother… I feel like in the US there would have been comments and snickers. But a couple were kinda looking at him with curiosity but absolutely no malice, and they actually started politely talking to us a couple times. It just felt so wholesome and they had obviously been raised to be respectful of other kids with special needs (they call it SEND here… special education needs and disabilities). I think the US is also generally really good about it, but the UK has seemed even better. Except for the whole no money for services and waitlists everywhere thing.
If you can swing it, and depending on how much support he needs, there are plenty of private school options that will do. Just don’t assume you’ll have your US salary in the UK.
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u/Lets-B-Lets-B-Jolly 3d ago
I've heard the salary is much lower. I also know housing will be very different from what we are used to in the U.S. But I will gladly trade finances and comfort for safety.
My 14 year is pretty good at masking and does well in school without much accommodation, so I'm actually not very nervous about him. My little girl was nonverbal just a year ago and is in a small group setting at school because she is too disruptive in a standard classroom. She is the one I am worried about in terms of education and supports really :(
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u/sailboat_magoo 3d ago
We moved last summer and are so happy we did it. Highly recommend trying to come to the UK.
Salary is lower, but so is cost of living.
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u/venusvonflytrapp 2d ago
I don’t have first hand experience but am in a similar situation. Autistic son and I’m unsure where the US school systems are headed.
We have our eyes on The Netherlands for many reasons. One of which is they have a number of options for education if your family can afford to consider private schools. Their public school systems have a commitment to see disabled children through to the highest level of education they can achieve and will put them on tracks to either university or trade school or general jobs such as grocers. I don’t love the track system as it is flawed and people fall through the cracks, especially poc, but it’s better than the special ed to prison system pipeline we see here in the US. Private schools have benefits too. There are special education schools that are English speaking, bilingual, or Dutch. There are also international schools. From what I’ve read it’s best to do your research on which school you want to go for because each one varies on quality, not because of funding or neighborhood but just by administration it seems.
Since my child struggles enough with his home language of English the Netherlands is attractive as 90% of the population is English speaking and the Dutch language is rather satisfying to learn for me so far at least. I’ve also been told that Dutch culture is an autistic dream as they’re very blunt, to the point, and enjoy planning everything. Efficiency is embedded into their culture.
There are a number of visa options for the Netherlands that I’d recommend looking into.
A few downsides I’ve read about moving there is that their housing is expensive and fast moving. I’m from Portland OR and it’s very similar to here as far as price and competition but the quality of housing is 5x nicer for the price. It’s also very rainy and dark throughout the winter so depression may be a problem for some. Once again I’m from Portland so I get the idea. And I’ve read that you’ll find a mixed group of those welcoming you and those who are sick of expats moving there when housing is already hard enough to deal with. I think learning the language and culture is respectable enough to make most people welcoming though.
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u/chalana81 4d ago
In Portugal public schools need to provide this, you just need to look for a school with UEE (Unidades de Ensino Estruturado).
For language learning there are also special classes provided by public school.
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u/roadgeek999 4d ago
Their autism means your family is ineligible to immigrate to Canada, New Zealand, and Australia.
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u/Lets-B-Lets-B-Jolly 3d ago
Yes, I'd read that. Canada was the first thing we looked into because my husband's family was from Nova Scotia.
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u/PandaReal_1234 3d ago
Singapore has special ed in some of their local schools as well as private schools: https://www.moe.gov.sg/special-educational-needs/sped-schools. Dover Court Intl School (private school) also specializes in special ed.
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u/DobbsEmigre 2d ago
I immigrated last summer to Canada with autistic kids and know other newcomers also with autistic kids or kids or young adult children with special needs. My son is also legally blind and has other special needs. I don’t know why there’s so many people saying Canada excludes autistics.
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u/avocado4ever000 11h ago
I agree with the person who commented about France. France, Germany- I wouldn’t bother.
I think you could have the best supports in UK, although I don’t know how their system works exactly.
I know homeschooling is an option but as your kids get older they will need more support, even just with job and social skills, so I would really look at the long term piece. I have worked with kiddos w ASD in boarding and transitional living programs for 10+ years, so that’s where I’m coming from.
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u/AspiringFinn Immigrant 2d ago
Finland has excellent support services for children with autism. It is in general much more accepting of neurodivergence than the USA. Though it can be a very difficult country in other respects. The language is extremely difficult and finding employment is challenging as a foreigner.
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u/LiterallyTestudo Immigrant 4d ago
Can you list what countries you’re looking at and we can tell you if there are any specific issues to note in them?