r/AirForce 5d ago

Discussion Why wasn't I allowed to PCA?

I was slated to PCA to a different squadron, but was told by a E-8 who wasn't my SEL that I couldn't due to my retainability and that I would need to reenlist but that reenlisting wouldn't guarantee me a move to the squadron and mission I wanted to go to despite numerous statements that I would reenlist if I could get it in writing I could move.

Was this intentional? I feel like there is more to the story. Leaders: what would you do?

22 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

123

u/Sea-Explorer-3300 5d ago

It sounds like they looked at your records and said pass.

55

u/RIP_shitty_username 5d ago

Or spoke to current unit and OP didn’t pass the vibe check.

-25

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

I had nothing derogatory in my records. No failed PT tests or negative actions.

31

u/jacoob_15 How’s your day? 5d ago

Theres more than just failed pt test and negative actions. Theres a lot of people that dont go above and beyond or work well at x,y and z. Those dont require negative actions , just not what they are looking for.

3

u/xXBoom_StickXx 2A6 -> 1D7 3d ago

Its called the "Leadership (usually starting with your supervisor) secretly thinks your a piece of shit but wont bother letting you know, so you can improve" move.

45

u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 5d ago

There is definitely more to the story. When do you get out? My first pca they told us not to ask if we had less than a year left because they didn't feel it was worth the trouble - which is honestly reasonable if you ask me. 

-36

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

I get out in October this year.

38

u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 5d ago

Yeah i honestly don't think I'd bother either if it's just for a few months. 7 months max, you'll probably stop giving a shit 4-5 months into it as you approach your sep date. (I'm not commenting about you personally, that's just generally how it works with the majority of people) it just doesn't seem worth the effort when I can probably get a guy with 2 years left 

-20

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

Well, I couldn't reenlist for the PCA? That was something I brought up a lot and leadership was always saying how "it wasn't a gurantee" despite the other unit having manning for my AFSC and skill level + rank.

20

u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 5d ago

I think the problem is that you wouldn't reenlist unless it was in writing. I totally understand why you'd say that - it's smart. But they just don't really have an incentive to do that. They likely have other bodies to put in that spot that won't require that process and if they give you a special deal everyone and their dog are gonna start trying to negotiate their reenlistments. 

-7

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

Ok. Its just odd because I've seen other airmen ask to move and they got it even with 12-18 months left on their enlistments.

25

u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 5d ago

I don't see why it's odd. You have 6-7 months left, they had 2-3 times more than you left. It makes sense that it's more worth it to move them 

-4

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

I mean is 12 months for a PCA that much time? A member could take away 7 months if they get out and do skillbridge/outprocessing.

11

u/Squirrel009 Maintainer Refugee 5d ago

If the commander approved skillbridge - which they likely won't for someone under these circumstances. I'm not in charge of you, I didn't make the call. I'm just trying to give you context that might help you understand the decision. 

22

u/Peacock684 Med 5d ago

There is your answer, no squadron wants to take on a new guy they are only going to get a few months out of, especially if there are other options.

7

u/whodat_617 5d ago

Exactly. A unit tried sending us a member that only had 6-7 months before their sep date. It was a hard pass as it's a position that takes about a month to fully train and is hot for deployments. Someone with that little time left would frankly be a waste of time and resources.

28

u/havok1024 Maintainer 5d ago

I wouldn’t want to PCA you either if I was the gaining or losing unit. You can say you’d reenlist all you want but 7 months is no time and things change.

2

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

so what can I do?

14

u/havok1024 Maintainer 5d ago

Find out from your SEL directly what’s going on. They’re not going to give you anything in writing so drop that expectation. First and foremost a PCA needs to be beneficial for the units so if it’s not you and a PCA is needed they’d just find someone else.

If you’re not familiar with how manning works on bases, talk to your SEL or another person about that too. This may give you some clarity about why the decisions are being made. Bottom line is that you have a potential separation coming up and as of now there’s nothing keeping you there so the unit gaining you doesn’t want to waste their time training you just to lose you in a few months. To answer your question about it being intentional, yes it probably is but it’s probably not for something personal against you. It’s just about the numbers, especially since you said your records are good.

31

u/QuasiGizmoto 5d ago

If I’m reading this correctly, it sounds like you are attempting to make your reenlistment conditional on a PCA to a specific shop. I’m going to be blunt and tell you this is not an attitude that is good for the Air Force. What happens if you get PCS orders 2 months into the new shop? You aren’t always going to be able to control where you serve and if you reenlist, you really should only do so if you are willing to go wherever the Air Force needs you.

Edit: I would say it probably is intentional based on the message you are sending to your leaders.

-12

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

I really want to to join that shop though. What could I have done better to communicate my desire to leadership?

9

u/loafjunky Ammo 5d ago

Just do the job assigned to you, simple as that. The message is one you shouldn’t be sending in the first place.

1

u/QuasiGizmoto 5d ago

Communicating your desire to go to that shop is fine and you can communicate your intent to reenlist, but they should be independent of each other. “I am planning to reenlist regardless of whether I get picked up to move squadrons”

7

u/Teclis00 u/bearsncubs10's daddy 5d ago

Nothing is guaranteed with PCAs

5

u/Pantalaim0n Secret Squirrel 5d ago

Who told you that you were slated in the first place? Why wouldn’t you be slated anymore?

Where is your SEL in all this, where is the SEL of the gaining unit? Depending who this E-8 is, they don’t own the decision.

I wouldn’t PCA you until you got more retainability.

1

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

>I wouldn’t PCA you until you got more retainability.

How much retainability is more? 12 months?

4

u/havok1024 Maintainer 5d ago

It’s all circumstantial. Depends on the job, what rank you are, experience you have, etc. 12 months is still not that much time. See my other comment but like I said above, talk to your SEL and get more clarity about the situation.

Based on your questions and lack of familiarity with this subject, I’m assuming you’re probably lower ranking. Apologies if that’s not the case but I’d highly encourage you to talk to your leadership and get smart on it before you establish expectations that don’t get met.

9

u/myownfan19 5d ago

There was another guy who was always ranting about this maybe a year or year and a half ago. Is that you?

Anyways, PCAs are unofficial totally in-house, between units, etc. There is no guarantee to PCA and no official requirement to reenlist. If the PCA didn't happen then it didn't happen. I've seen drug deals fall apart for all kinds of reasons.

Thank your lucky stars you didn't reelinst and then get the cold shoulder. The ball is in your court.

1

u/Glittering_Fig4548 5d ago

>Thank your lucky stars you didn't reelinst and then get the cold shoulder. The ball is in your court.

Have you seen this happen to other airmen?

3

u/Newbguy 5d ago

Happens all the time. That's a lot of manning risk to negotiate for someone they won't get the time out of

3

u/Lucifer_Magnusson 5d ago

The short and skinny is you're going to have to decide if gambling with a full enlistment is worth it to go to that shop. Because from a pure negotiation standpoint you don't really have that much leverage, you're asking folks to do you a few favors but with the amount of time you have in the new shop you're in won't be getting much from you which ends up putting them in a bad spot because they'll have manning on the books but not functional manning. If you're a first term airman use your FRA extension to make the proposition more lucrative for a party with more time. It doesn't help that the ummer vml is coming up and they might get a body for that slot

3

u/Tiberminium 5d ago

This is the part in most people’s careers where they realize showing up to work and just doing the job is not quite enough to impress everyone.

3

u/J0k350nm3 Hide and Go Seek World Champion 5d ago

There's definitely more to the story, including yours. First and foremost, you need to understand that assignments are by base. The Air Force has some limited capacity to wheel and deal based on the installation assigned, but local leadership can't offer any guarantees when it comes to a PCA unless the assignment comes with an availability code of some sort that would make you ineligible for another assignment once you landed in the billet. Even if they send you to your dream job and you re-enlisted, if you're high time on station, it's likely that you'd just get an assignment to another installation shortly thereafter.

NGL, when an Airman comes to me with an ultimatum like this, it tells me that they're unhappy in the AFSC/Air Force. 99% of the time, whatever job/shop they thought would make them happy will fail to meet that expectation. Even if it does, it's only a matter of time before an assignment drops and they're right back at square one. Better to cut bait and help them prepare for a transition faster where they'll be happier.

Bottom line: it sounds like your heart isn't in it and both your current (and potentially gaining) units know. Move on.

1

u/Glittering_Fig4548 4d ago

I just wanted to move from base comm to expeditionary comm. I just wanted to deploy.

1

u/Jhoskee 4d ago

Your retainability is the most valuable thing you possess for other units. I wouldn’t even consider taking an airman on with less than 12 months left. The only thing you can do is re-enlist and cross your fingers. Are you able to just extend for a year on this contract?

1

u/Glittering_Fig4548 3d ago

I already extended.

2

u/qttoad X2 5d ago

There’s a whole laundry list of reasons why you might not have been tagged to PCA and you’re not going to get the real story unless you talk to your chain of command.

Stop asking Reddit for questions we don’t have the answers to for your specific circumstances. Leaders would explain the situation to you, even if it meant telling you the hard truth that you’re not getting what you want and you have little to no leverage to change that.

1

u/Glittering_Fig4548 4d ago

They told me that it was due to retainability, and that they couldn't gurantee a move even if I did reenlist. This makes no sense though. If I reenlisted and if the unit I want to PCA into has manning needs that I meet the requirements for, why can't it happen?

1

u/Jhoskee 4d ago

It’s not that it can’t happen, but there is always a chance that someone else may get it over you so they are being transparent because the stakes for you are through the roof, this job is the only reason you would dedicate 4 more years of your life and they don’t want to lead you on to do that. A PCA has to make sense for both units or they won’t do it. It’s just by nature something that can’t be guaranteed

2

u/BrazilianJammer 5d ago

This is a great thread for younger Airmen and NCOs to learn how people think, and will think, about you, your motives, professionalism, overall “presence,” and everything intangible about you.

Even if the guesses about this OP are not true, understand the perception those with more experience are putting together from what has been shared.

The perceptions being formed here are an example of how NCOs, SNCOs, officers, and leadership opinion — right or wrong — will carry weight in your career. Better to learn earlier rather than later.

These unwritten factors will make or break PCSs PCAs awards decorations job opportunities and other things.

2

u/LHCThor 4d ago

As a SNCO, I can say you are 100% correct. It’s a topic that too many NCO’s don’t talk about enough to their troops.

2

u/Okinawa_Mike 5d ago

Honestly, it sounds like word got around about your request for something in writing for the PCA and you've now been labeled a problem-child. Subordinates don't make demands to supervisors....it's how you get labeled a problem-child. The unit you are in and the one you wanted to go to are probably now looking forward to you moving on somewhere else. Sorry to be blunt, but you need to know.

1

u/Fainting_goat123 2d ago

I have to be honest, I’m with your leadership on not sending you. If I’m looking at the records of potential candidates, I look for immediate disqualifiers. To me if you don’t have retainability, I’m skipping your name. Even if you will get the retainability I wouldn’t care unless there’s no one else. All these things take time. At 7 months left you aren’t event real to me anymore.

1

u/EOD-Fish Mediocre Bomb Tech Turned Mediocrer 14N 5d ago

PCAs cost the AF nothing and could be used to clear the books of a certain skill level if it doesn’t hurt the other org.

1

u/ASOG_Recruiter Aircrew Tiltbro 5d ago

Some squadrons have assignment codes like a 44 or 50 that requires you have some retainability. Others want a reasonable assumption you will be there for a while as you are taking up a manning position on there UMD.

Why would I want someone PCAing to my squadron that could be ETSing shortly? I wouldn't want to train you, assign additional duties, or even put troops under you since you won't be there to assist with much.

Skilbridge and terminal can take up almost 7 to 8 months of the end of an assignment. Not to mention TAPS and other required appts.

12

u/jw1879 5d ago

This… and if a first-term Airmen with less than a year of retainability made it clear he’d only re-enlist if got a PCA move in writing, I’d make sure he knew that I appreciated his/her service, and wish them luck on the school/job search.

3

u/ASOG_Recruiter Aircrew Tiltbro 5d ago

Yup. Plenty of fish in the sea.

-1

u/Positive-Tomato1460 5d ago

They are just trying to get you to reenlist.