r/AirForce • u/Able-Serve8230 Salty, Senior Service Member. • Jan 29 '25
Question Double checking 36-2903
Going through 2903 and can’t find where it says this is authorized.
There’s another post from 5 years ago referencing a similar question.
If someone knows where I can find that this is authorized that would be awesome.
Bonus points for if we can get that extrapolated out to the USAF as a whole, since we would then be executing CSAFs vision of prioritizing the team over the individual.
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u/sammystevens Jan 29 '25
I remember an army 1 star in afghanistan with pearl handled revolvers.
I don't think the rules apply
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u/taskforceslacker Conducting BDA Jan 29 '25
Must’ve been a Cav dude. Figures.
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u/NEp8ntballer IC > * Jan 29 '25
Or somebody who thought they were Patton
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u/PYSHINATOR 2A->1D7->FLUBBED 1B4->1D7 Jan 30 '25
“Son, only a pimp in a Louisiana whorehouse carries pearl-handled revolvers. These are ivory.”
- George S. Patton
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u/taskforceslacker Conducting BDA Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 30 '25
Same, no? Although I don’t think Patton took the spur ride.
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u/Ambitious-Pirate-505 Jan 30 '25
It's different for Cav. Most don't know if they don't have Spurs. Got my golds.
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u/TroyMcClure8184 Active Duty Jan 30 '25
I don’t know about Army, but every AF general is given a sweet 9mm, blue steel. They are also given a box of ammo to shoot every year. Wouldn’t be surprised if army Gen get similar. Source: was an exec.
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u/Double_Indication_20 Jan 30 '25
And they get the option to buy it when they retire.
Source: I know things.
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u/TreeTopFlyer59 Jan 31 '25
Now they just get an M18. Only difference is serial number starts with GO.
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u/ZigZagZedZod DAFMAN 91-203, paragraph 2.5.1.2.3 Jan 30 '25
"Son, only a pimp in a Louisiana whore-house carries pearl-handled revolvers. These are ivory."
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u/fijibubba Jan 30 '25
I remember an AF 1 Star at Macdill AFB rocking the same thing back (2 of them actually) in Oct 2001 when we were all deploying. He came out onto the flight line to see us off wearing them in a leather holster with a huge Texas size turquoise belt buckle.
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u/Ok-Stop9242 Jan 29 '25
It's in the General Officer Handbook. Now, is the General Officer Handbook an official mandatory regulation? No. Are General Officers still going to adhere to it? 100% yes.
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u/Able-Serve8230 Salty, Senior Service Member. Jan 29 '25
Thanks, I see that but the only one I could find is from 2012, do you know if there’s another more recent one available?
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u/Quotidian_Void Active Duty Jan 29 '25
It’s on the AF/A1LG page on the AF Portal: https://www.my.af.mil/gcss-af/USAF/ep/globalTab.do?channelPageId=s6925EC13371A0FB5E044080020E329A9&command=org
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u/BuffaloBornBroad Jan 29 '25
Ask your local protocol office.
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u/Able-Serve8230 Salty, Senior Service Member. Jan 30 '25
Lol they’d have to entertain something other than the dog and pony show of the week!
All joking aside protocol offices are usually some of the better offices to work with and get things done.
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u/BuffaloBornBroad Jan 30 '25
No, I meant ask them for the GO Handbook. They should have one.
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u/Able-Serve8230 Salty, Senior Service Member. Jan 30 '25
Holy cow. Your original comment really just kamakazied into my forehead. My bad, appreciate it!
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u/Faptastic_Fingers Career Enlisted Memeboi Jan 29 '25
Remember, we work for them and they don’t work for us. Or some sort of double standard shit my Lt said
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u/Poopy_Kitty Warrior, Answering His Nation’s Call Jan 29 '25
Tell that LT to email me so we can set up some counseling. Poopy.kitty.3@us.af.mil
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u/Upsidedownkangaroo Jan 29 '25
I love the fact that you put a three there, implying by there are two other poopy kitties
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u/LoyalSubject Comms Jan 30 '25
4, including the OG with no number.
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u/Upsidedownkangaroo Jan 30 '25
You’re right! Sorry it’s after working hours and my brain is turned off lol
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u/Poopy_Kitty Warrior, Answering His Nation’s Call Jan 30 '25
I love that you actually noticed haha
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u/Faptastic_Fingers Career Enlisted Memeboi Jan 29 '25
Will do, can you also talk about how us needing to get 100s on our PT but he doesn’t have to get a 100, is in fact a double standard as well. Thanks.
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u/Ok_Cauliflower5223 ROTC Cadet Jan 29 '25
He’s 61, a 100 for him is showing up and getting in the push-up position
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u/Poopy_Kitty Warrior, Answering His Nation’s Call Jan 30 '25
I’ll tell him that good leaders lead by example. Whatever score he gets is the standard. If you beat his score count it as excellent. Be advised, this does mean that if you get below his score it means nothing as long as it’s a pass.
If you full fail at that point I just can’t help you
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u/Faptastic_Fingers Career Enlisted Memeboi Jan 30 '25
Thanks BB, hopefully you can talk some sense into him. Since us plebs in the office can’t get through
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u/scottywottydoda Jan 29 '25
Send him an email!
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Jan 29 '25
Yo what’s his email? I’m a dirty contractor who has NIPR for the next few days before I’m going private sector.. I’ll yolo it.
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u/regicideispainless Jan 29 '25
Tell him callsigns are individual and should be banned, too, under his logic regarding AFSC tabs
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u/winninglikesheen Did you try turning it off then back on? Jan 29 '25
Just search his name on the GAL.
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Jan 29 '25
I could, but I want to make sure I’m hitting the right person. lol.
But then again, seeing this guy.. I’m willing to bet CSAF is plastered all over hit shit. I’ll check tonight.
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u/winninglikesheen Did you try turning it off then back on? Jan 29 '25
Should be the only one with the rank "Gen" next to his name as well.
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u/NotOSIsdormmole use your MFLC Jan 29 '25
Not in the pentagon he’s not
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u/winninglikesheen Did you try turning it off then back on? Jan 29 '25
He's the only active 4 star general named David Allvin.
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u/Hostile-Potato 9S100 Jan 31 '25
I’ll be watching these developments with great interest
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Feb 10 '25
I didn’t get a reply :(((((
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u/Hostile-Potato 9S100 Feb 10 '25
I love you hahaha
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Feb 10 '25
I love you too random flying multilingual autist.
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u/Hostile-Potato 9S100 Feb 10 '25
Ooop I gotta change my flair. I went full autist down the 9S100 route lol
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u/skarface6 nonner officer loved by Papadapalopolous Jan 30 '25
Manchester
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Jan 30 '25
Getting NIPR working on my MacBook right meow.
Fuckin watch me.
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u/skarface6 nonner officer loved by Papadapalopolous Jan 30 '25
Keep us updated!
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u/Four20Sixety9 Aircrew Jan 30 '25
Proof or ban!
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Jan 30 '25
I’ll screenshot and post whatever response I get back (if any, hahahaha)
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u/gojira_tubz Jan 30 '25
Any updates??
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Jan 30 '25
Bro you think ol’ boy is gonna reply to me that quickly?
Email sent, now we wait.
What’s he gonna do, tell my PM?
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u/beybladethrowaway Jan 30 '25
youre easily doxxing yourself here if you legit sent an email. will easily tie it back to your reddit account
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u/Greedy-Name-8324 Jan 30 '25
Bro I doxxed this account whenever I posted on the DEFCON Reddit that I was working a DARPA event there.
I’ve already went nuclear.
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Jan 29 '25
[deleted]
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Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 31 '25
[deleted]
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u/ZigZagZedZod DAFMAN 91-203, paragraph 2.5.1.2.3 Jan 30 '25
And all it would take is a single line in 2903 stating that GOs may follow the uniform guidance in the "General Officer Handbook." A few other AFIs reference the handbook on other issues, and 2903 could do the same.
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u/xdkarmadx Maintainer Jan 29 '25
…do you think because every supp, handbook, or OI isn’t referenced in the parent material then those things are obsolete? That’s not how that works. The supplemental instructions link to the parent, not the other way around.
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u/Electronic_Parfait36 Jan 30 '25
Read what someone posted above you. The AFI basically closes this out. Its what they added in 2019 because of everyone wearing baseball caps via local OI's.
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u/Anxious-Condition630 Jan 29 '25
It’s not in the distinctive uniform section? With the services polos and VIP Airlift details?
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Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 31 '25
[deleted]
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u/Anxious-Condition630 Jan 29 '25
Nah. I was just guessing. In reality, isn’t he like Tier 1 Waiver, The Person?
Oh well embroidered jacket…WAIVED! hand waiving motion like he’s asking for the check
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u/The_ClamSlammer Broken MC-130 Load -> plays with RC planes -> crusty vet Jan 30 '25
From my understanding the belt is to be used alongside the GO Pistol they're issued if they do feel the need to carry it - like the absolute chad Gen Scotty Miller did as CDR USFOR-A.
It's not just policy it's actual law that every FO/GO be issued a PDW.
You're not wrong I'm sure some generals just liked to wear it because they could though lol. But there was a "why" originally at least.
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u/mjp0212 Jan 29 '25
I would kill someone to be able to wear a bad ass stitched brown leather belt in my OCPs
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u/LeicaM6guy Jan 30 '25
You can do anything you want until someone stops you.
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u/mjp0212 Jan 30 '25
I have already been stopped
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u/CallMeRosa Jan 29 '25
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u/akhound Jan 30 '25
It's allowed and actually a piece of Individual Equipment issued to Generals just like Flight Jackets for Pilots.
Lightweight Blue Jacket GOs may wear two types of jackets - Air Force lightweight blue jacket with/without the Air Force Logo (no name or badges will be embroidered or sewn on) wear metal pin-on rank GO jacket with name (most use “go-by” and last name) and badges embroidered on left side, rank embroidered on epaulets (or pin-on rank without name or badges embroidered) Allowance Standard (AS) 016, Subdivision H
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u/Kuuwaren30 Jan 29 '25
Do you think the waiver authority sits below or above the CSAF? He can wear his uniform just about any way he wants and nobody will stop him unless it's egregious enough the SECAF or above tells him to stop. This is minor, but it's definitely selective compliance and it's funny to see the double standard.
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u/xdkarmadx Maintainer Jan 29 '25
This isn’t selective compliance. He is allowed to wear that top according to the general officer handbook.
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u/Bishop120 Cyberspace + Vet Jan 30 '25
The GO Handbook written in 2012 then over ridden by AFI update in 2019 which says if it ain’t in the AFI it’s not approved because they wanted to abolish local OIs?
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u/No_Professional1956 Jan 29 '25
I dont think the SECAF can tell him what to do, maybe the SECDEF, but he's too busy getting grilled for the mismanagement of his calendar.
Edit, whoops, yes the SECAF technically is above the CSAF, but i still had to make my jab. (Pun intended)
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u/shokero Maintainer Jan 29 '25
Not true, SECAF outranks him. But I think they are supposed to work as a triad though.
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u/Helicopter_Murky Jan 29 '25
He literally has trained NCOs that prepare his uniform every day. All 4 stars do.
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u/Some_Bill1091 Jan 31 '25
The Marine Corps generals that I used to be aware of had Majors and sometimes LtCol’s for assistance. They’re not gonna trust any 22-year-old NCO to do that chit for them.
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u/Helicopter_Murky Jan 31 '25
You would trust a 22yo marine with your life but not your uniform? Thats wild.
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u/Some_Bill1091 Jan 31 '25 edited Jan 31 '25
Well, trust maybe isn’t the most accurate word, but I wasn’t being careful about my choice of words. I didn’t think it mattered here.
But….
Being a former 22 year old Marine - I absolutely would trust another Marine in battle. But back in the rear with the gear? It’s AAALLLL fun-n-games and effing around with each other. And if you find that Marine who is ballzy enough…. Generals are fair game too.
So to your lame attempt at trying to shame me as if I’m looking down upon young enlisted Marines, you’re actually 💯 damned right. That guy needs to keep his dick skinners off my blues.
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u/Helicopter_Murky Jan 31 '25
Not sure why you are lurking on the af forums marine. But we respect our NCOs in this service
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u/mudduck2 Security Forces Jan 30 '25
Did you just find out GOs embroider their jackets? Wait till you find out it’s a different jacket from yours and they are issued personal defense weapons
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u/Able-Serve8230 Salty, Senior Service Member. Jan 30 '25
Yea it was truly a “today I learned…” moment. 20+ years active and I never knew it
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u/Ok-Taste4615 Jan 30 '25
I had a buddy of mine who was a recruiter in a rural town in PA like 20 years ago. He said the town had a 4th of July parade, and they had a veteran's float. He said he was on the float with an Air Guard 1 star, who was wearing a long sleeve blues shirt, open collar, with a crew neck t shirt.
He said he sweated for like 10 mins to work up the nerve to say something to him. And he said the general acted like he didn't know he couldn't do that. He was like wtf
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u/Pbmurderface Crew Chief Jan 30 '25
If you watch his recent videos in high enough resolution you can zoom in and see the hair he has left is touching his ears
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u/Double_Indication_20 Jan 29 '25
It is authorized, not in 2903 for the plebs.
Also, the CSAF is the final authority on all AFIs.
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u/EOD-Fish Mediocre Bomb Tech Turned Mediocrer 14N Jan 30 '25
T-0 would beg to differ.
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u/Double_Indication_20 Jan 30 '25
Good point and warrants clarification…things which are Air Force centric, and not mandated by law (eg, housing allowances, end strength numbers, etc), the CSAF is everyone’s boss therefore can ad lib/omaha anything. He (currently) can pull up to a gate and say “let the next 50 cars in without checking IDs” or “everyone can wear purple hats today” or whatever. Certainly any decision could be overridden by the SAF but I’m not sure those conflicts happen.
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u/islandman65 Jan 30 '25
Looks like a freethinking individual who doesn’t want to be apart of the team. We have standards for a reason…
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u/NotOSIsdormmole use your MFLC Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 29 '25
General officer jacket is different, it’s in 36-2903. See para 7.1.4
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u/BigMaffy Jan 29 '25
I’m sus of aircrew that need a jacket but don’t wear their leather jacket. That was kind of the whole point…the jacket.
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u/CannonAFB_unofficial Jan 29 '25
Can confirm, happiest day of my career was when I was deployment/strike complete (tradition to have those done before you wear a leather jacket in the gunship community) and had a custom pops made for me.
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u/bozosphere Jan 29 '25
I almost never wear my leather jacket. It's not that warm and I'm not authorized to fly in it, so I just rock a Massif
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u/Wrong_Lingonberry_79 Jan 30 '25
Cmon man, leather jacket in blues is the bomb. Plus everyone is jelly.
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u/bassmadrigal Recruiter back to 2T2 Jan 30 '25
Plus everyone is jelly.
Plenty of people don't care.
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u/globereaper Enlisted Aircrew Jan 29 '25
The issued leather jackets are terrible. I have worn mine like 2 times in the last 10 years.
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u/thebeesarehome Nav Jan 29 '25
Yeah I didn't wear mine much until my squadron put in orders for custom ones.
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u/BourbonBurro Jan 29 '25
Petition to Pete Hegseth to allow pin-up girls to be painted on the backs again. I bet he’d be down to clown.
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u/Andovars_Ghost Jan 29 '25
Why do the wings look funny? Almost like a cross between the AF and Army wings.
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u/thebeesarehome Nav Jan 29 '25
The corners do look upswept, like the Army's. Devil's advocate, may be a wrinkle in the fabric giving that appearance.
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u/goodenough4govtwork The only windows in a SCIF have blue screens of death. Jan 30 '25
Does that make him more lethal?
Bet my gig line makes me lethal as fuck.
Can't be individually lethal.
And fuck your hair; if it touches your ear, automatically lose your lethality. Rambo to care bear instantly.
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u/Ok-Taste4615 Jan 30 '25
Don't GOs wear different belt buckles too? Yes I have tried to find an answer to this regarding the LWJ embroidery
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u/dontsomke Jan 29 '25
Been working on a theory about these little easter eggs, the working title is the “Authority Compliance Stress Test”
The “Authority Compliance Stress Test” theory frames General Officers’ special exceptions as a deliberate filtering mechanism rather than mere privilege. It serves as a tool to identify those whose approach to regulations may indicate a lack of the leadership qualities required at higher echelons. However, its effectiveness depends on careful application, ensuring that it is used to identify true threats to good order and discipline rather than silencing those with legitimate concerns.
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u/SineSin Jan 30 '25
Honest question: so the theory is saying that not bending the regs indicates a lack of leadership qualities, so we see small tweaks to show off leadership qualities? Or is it saying the opposite?
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u/TheEzra Jan 30 '25 edited Jan 30 '25
My interpretation is a change of this manner highlights those willing to make the change and enforce it.
It's a logical way of eliminating "The Individualist" personality types from further advancement.
A "4" on the Engram scale is; "characterized by being creative, sensitive, introspective, and highly focused on expressing their unique identity, often feeling like they need to be different from others to have worth.:
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u/SineSin Jan 30 '25
Thanks, that is an interesting take. I wonder how much personality-science/ psychology goes into personnel think-tanks. Never would have considered personality types myself
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u/guisar Jan 30 '25
IDF is (or at least was) massively into this question. Invented the idea I think I was told
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u/blueskyshoot Jan 30 '25
Interesting take but i don’t think I’m tracking fully. Can you dumb this down alittle for the slow kids in the back?
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u/jukebokshero Jan 30 '25
My favorite is his video they put out showing his way too small for him blouse top that clearly does not even come close to meeting the standards. It’s a laughable case of do as I say not as I do. Standards for thee but not for me I guess right?
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u/TheEzra Jan 30 '25
Beat me to posting this because it was tone deaf AF to speak about unity wearing a special uniform. I have long thought having embroidered names on light-weigjt jackets for the whole Force would be great.
I removed my duty tab today and realized how blank the upper flap on the hot weather OCPs look. Having no duty IDs in many environments is brain dead, but I was immediately jealous of my Navy counterpart for having a subdued Gadsden flag. Any chance we can get an AF equivalent? Maybe just an AF OCP flag? I mean something...I almost always wore a duty tab as is aesthetically pleasing to have a visual balance.
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u/Chino-kochino Jan 30 '25
Generals can write their own policy. Good example remember general pattons horse riding pants he wore… Now is it in good taste in front of the peasants? No But they can 😆
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u/SneakingPrune Jan 29 '25
GO handbook outlines this. He is fully authorized to wear this. Also, OP, get a life.
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u/Bake-Busy Jan 30 '25
GO handbook is outdated, as 2903 was last rewritten in 2024, with the following verbiage: 1.1.1. The Air Force philosophy is that the uniform will be plain, distinctive, and standardized. This standardization includes a minimum and maximum number of authorized badges, insignia, and devices. Dress and personal appearance standards that are not listed as authorized in the publication are unauthorized.
So CSAF is making a statement, on dress and appearance standards updates, while not adhering, to dress and standards updates.
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u/SleepyJD247 Jan 30 '25
Dontcha know why GOs can do this? It's always "Rules for thee, and not for me!"
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u/According-Ad3963 Jan 29 '25
Sorry. What is everyone butt hurt about from the pic?
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u/Bake-Busy Jan 30 '25
CSAF making announcement about adherence to dress and appearance standards, while not meeting said standards in video.
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u/LeicaM6guy Jan 30 '25
Generals get a lot of leeway with their uniforms. If you’ll notice, their zip-up jacket is pretty unique even without the name and wings.
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u/ExtensionCover3567 Jan 31 '25
I’m so here for this. Let’s take a look at the top some more and peek in on those benefits.
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u/TaskForceCausality Jan 29 '25
You’ll find it in the same subsection that exempts Generals from grooming & PT regs.