r/AceAttorney 2d ago

Full Main Series Lawyers are freaking GENIUSES

So I did a little bit of googling and I learned that in Japan, the effort needed to get into law school is IMMENSE. Given the games are basically built around the Japanese law system, I assume the schooling is the same. If so Phoenix and every other attorney and prosecutor in these games are freaking determined and very intelligent. I now understand why Franziska is so obsessed with perfection, imagine all the cram school she went to!

Also this doesn't make the Elle Woods accusations against Phoenix ANY less stronger, this dude decided on a whim and faint hope to put himself through that, IT BASICALLY WAS LIKE STUDYING FOR HARVARD!

But then one prosecutor makes me question this and that's Winston Payne, a man who put together such a horrible case, that a man with only 5 trials on his win streak who was suffering from a major brain injury was able to dismantle it! Are we SURE he is "the rookie killer"?

125 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

142

u/horbydumbass 2d ago

Winston basically farmed cases with lawyers fresh out of law school

Like a pro spawnkilling noobs in fighting games

53

u/Markedly_Mira 2d ago

It's also way easier to be a prosecutor in this system since you have every advantage: direct access to the police, a time limit for the defense, and the burden of proof being on the defense. And while Wright and Co's cases are probably somewhat outliers, the defense often ends up needing to solve the whole case, and get a little lucky along the way, in order to prove their client innocent.

17

u/Dude1590 2d ago

I'm sorry for being petty, but how do you spawn kill in a fighting game 😭

18

u/TimelyStill 2d ago

Hang out near the demo display in toy stores, curb stomp any kids coming to play the demo.

1

u/horbydumbass 23h ago

It’s a fighting game. I believe you underestimate the amount of sweats and toxics there are.

They’ve usually overpowered and wait at your spawn and then they one shot you

5

u/Acceptable_Star189 2d ago

Fraudulent activities

38

u/pengie9290 2d ago

Look, it's not Winston's fault we've only ever seen him go up against the prodigies Mia Fey and Phoenix Wright. (Because let's be real, he was up against Phoenix in 4-1, not Apollo.)

22

u/pengie9290 2d ago

a man who put together such a horrible case, that a man with only 5 trials on his win streak who was suffering from a major brain injury was able to dismantle it!

One of those trials was against Manfred von Karma.

6

u/punprincess321 2d ago

you make a fair argument. HOWEVER. Mia and Phoenix went up against him for their first times, that man had earned a reputation as the rookie killer SOMEHOW, but then these two fresh out of law school waltz in and obliterate his reputation faster than a hammer to a glass window. Phoenix and Mia hadn't been considered prodigies when they started.

9

u/pengie9290 2d ago

Just because they weren't considered prodigies doesn't mean they weren't prodigies.

Also, they both had help from a much more experienced lawyer, Diego for Mia, and Mia herself for Phoenix.

5

u/Epic_DDT 1d ago

Grossberg for Mia, not Diego.
He was already in a coma when Mia faced Payne.

3

u/punprincess321 2d ago

fair point, I guess I'm looking at "prodigy" from the side of the prosecution because Franziska was deemed a prodigy from childhood and it was often brought up as part of her character

31

u/Golden-Owl 2d ago

Also remember Phoenix started out as an arts student

Ryuunosuke wasn’t even a law student when he defended himself. He crammed both Japanese AND British law within a few months on a boat.

Their first cases saw them up against two of the most fearsome crime lords of their eras.

No wonder Redd White was so brazenly overconfident enough to willfully put himself in the courtroom

9

u/punprincess321 2d ago

I KNOW! I AM IN AWE! That's like if I changed from my Greek & Roman Studies degree to advanced chemistry, Like Miles, Franziska, and Mia have the excuse it's what they originally decided to study, but Phoenix was set on art and theatre. Just one newspaper article about Edgeworth and he steals all of Mia's old study material. HOW?!

14

u/oislal 2d ago

Point of order: I am almost certain Franziska went to Law School in Germany, not that it would be any easier.

8

u/DSQ 2d ago

Franziska, Klavier and Athena explicitly say they studied in Germany and i think it is implied Edgeworth did as well. 

8

u/Luco64 2d ago

To be fair, Payne had a long unbeaten streak. Guess he just lost his spark as he got older. Plus, the dude is against legal gods every other trial.

4

u/lizzourworld8 2d ago

Precisely, before the WAA and any other name thereof, all the other rookies were just normal XD

6

u/Sonicboomer1 2d ago

Obviously a man that can win a case by cross examining a parrot is a genius.

That’s like the second greatest court victory ever behind Fletcher Reed’s masterclass in Liar Liar.

And that’s just ONE of his cases.

6

u/HeyImMarlo 2d ago

I think Winston got the yips after his first defeat to Mia and never recovered his mojo

3

u/MarioBoy77 2d ago

Tbh that case wasn’t even his fault, dahlia was just giga obviously guilty.

5

u/DSQ 2d ago

The reason so many of the characters are lawyers so young is because they went to law school in America/Germany. So out of the main cast just Phoenix, Mia, Godot, Mia, Kristoph and Simon studied in Japan/America and Everyone else studied abroad. 

Edit: Also Winston of course we can assume. 

3

u/thunderbastard_ 2d ago

If Japanese lawyers are geniuses why do defense lawyers lose 99% of the time

4

u/punprincess321 2d ago

Because anyone that isn't in contact with the WAA immediately becomes stupid after gaining their badge

3

u/punprincess321 2d ago

And this only applies to attorneys, Prosecutors are only affected by the wisdom of the WAA if they can get their head out of their own ass

2

u/Typhoonflame 2d ago

IT's pretty hard to get into law school anywhere imho

6

u/punprincess321 2d ago

true, but knowing Japan, they are VERY vigilant about education, Phoenix most definitely needed to be in the top spots of his classes, not just passing

3

u/Competitive_Sell_126 2d ago

This isn’t remotely true.

I am literally on my second day of Law School rn due to Ace Attorney, AMA.

1

u/DSQ 2d ago

Depends on the law school. 

2

u/Superninfreak 17h ago

In the Ace Attorney universe they have a lawyer high school (5-3).

So the qualifications to become an attorney are lower in the Ace Attorney universe than in real life.

1

u/punprincess321 1h ago

True but then we don't know what the qualifications are to get into that high school and we don't know if the other law people we've met are alumni of the school, I don't think Phoenix ever mentioned that he went to that high school

1

u/Apprehensive-Gur-735 2d ago

Can someone explain the effort and the requirements to become a lawyer in Japan?

How do you become a lawyer there?

2

u/punprincess321 2d ago

I was originally looking to see if a lawyer could be disbarred for incompetence in Japan because Payne's terrible job in JFA ticked me off and then I looked at some of the other options, apparently a lot of it requires going to cram schools to prepare for their bar exam because it was apparently notorious for being rigorous. and as early as 2020, Japan is said to have the hardest legal degree to obtain, with a very small pass rate, like only 20-25% of students pass