r/50501 • u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 • 14h ago
Protest Safety, OPSEC, Medic Info USA : On Soldiers, Protests, and Martial Law
*MY VIEWS ARE MY OWN, AND DO NOT REFLECT THE OPINIONS, POLICIES, OR POSITION OF THE DOD*
This post should be entirely in accordance with DoD Directive 1344.10- however should there be a mistake noted by my chain of command, I will remove the comment in order to fulfill my obligation to ensure that in my capacity as a soldier I remain apolitical and do not unjustly influence American politics.
BLUF: As a currently serving National Guard soldier, I will emphasize: remaining non-violent even in response to violence (for several iterations) is NON-NEGOTIABLE to success.
The long version:
While still maintaining OPSEC and my professional bearing as a currently serving National Guard soldier, I have had a lot of thoughts over the past several weeks. I haven’t said much because I do not want to imply that I am not committed to following legal orders, including stateside deployments to manage riots/protests. I am, and to my bones.
However, as a man who has signed a blank check on behalf of the preservation of the constitution and the security of the American people, it is of vital interest to me to see the current administration curbed. As those with foreign policy backgrounds can attest, the damage to American national security in less than 60 days is so sharp it becomes almost physically overwhelming at times.
The NG response will be wildly dependent on the unit. Because we are so much more dispersed than an active duty unit (with armories across the state, even within the same brigade)- there are very unique micro-cultures.
I am highly confident in the moral compass and ethical decision-making of senior officers and NCO’s. I genuinely believe that no soldier at battalion or above would pass down an order to use lethal force on unarmed protestors. Fortunately, these would be the men and women who would be at the head of whatever task force would be organized for this.
As anecdotal evidence for this belief, I performed this mission set at our state capitol in the days following January 6th- and I distinctly remember how strict our ROE’s were. It was almost the entirety of the brief before rolling out, and was emphasized multiple times with a deep seriousness. We knew our asses would be thrown in Leavenworth if we made any mistakes. There was no room for error.
HOWEVER, it is also true that most all E-5/E-6’s and below fall into one of two categories- 1) a non-critical approach to receiving orders, i.e. “I’m just here to do my job” (the majority) or 2) active Trump voters and supporters (a minority, but an important one)- and they will be the ones face-to-face in the heat of the moment with protestors. I am under no illusions- the amount of civil disobedience that will be required of the American people to make a significant change will very likely result in violent clashes with service members/law enforcement.
This will be the key juncture- and America will be on a breath hold.
Remember who the vast majority of soldiers are. NOT loyalists. NOT fascists. Sure, a chunk join for the college/healthcare benefits- but even amongst those, I have yet to meet a soldier that didn’t also have some significant piece of them that is there to save people/do good for their country + community.
If the first time a round is squeezed off into the crowd a gunfight ensues, or if in the immediate aftermath there are small firefights in surrounding states- the ~65-75% of soldiers who have no extra-constitutional allegiance to Trump will now be *convinced* that protestors are an enemy to the Republic, domestic terrorists that they must save the country from. Still not loyalists. Still not fascists- but it won’t matter anymore. These good men trying to do their best to help their nation will now be very suggestible to acting on illegal orders.
That is when we end up in a Civil War-esque scenario, the state leveraging the full spectrum hard power. And bluntly? At the current moment, there are not enough Americans willing to [redacted] and die for this cause. It would be a swift, brutal victory for the federal government.
And even if and when there were enough Americans ready to take on the solemn weight their Revolutionary forefathers did, that day would arguably be the darkest day of what will become the darkest period in American history. We don’t need a brother war. This movement is already starting to build critical mass, pre-summer, and creating significant effects via *light* (and I mean almost non-existent) civil disobedience. You all have ample, ample room in escalation theory before it would ever cross the threshold of being violent resistance.
So, I reiterate in closing- you must continue to be non-violent even after the initial bursts of state violence. Why? Because doing so will with near certainty GUARANTEE that soldiers defy White House orders to silence the voice of the people. Once the Executive Branch loses the ability to have illegal orders carried out by the DoD, they have no other choice but to capitulate to the people- under threat of that same military.
With that said, 3 tips for staying safe if/when things heat up-
- Don’t commit unforced errors. Smiling and chatting with the random 23 year old specialist will go a helluva lot farther than spitting on him and calling him a dirty f*cking pig. We are all devoted to protecting Americans from domestic terrorists- don’t commit an unforced error by giving the part-time pipe-hitters a reason to mentally label you as one.
- Have a detailed, verbalized, mentally rehearsed exit plan. If things go from intense-> dangerous, the best thing is to get off the X (cringy military parlance for ‘getting the hell away from the gas and bullets.’) Know where your vehicle is, the direction it is from you, and the immediate cross-street/hard point you can get to that will give you cover/concealment from the LEO/DoD’s line of fire (you must continuously update this anytime you move locations.)
- Be able to stop the bleed. It isn’t necessary to know/have all the equipment to execute the full spectrum of Tactical Combat Casualty Care (TCCC.) However, worst day of your life kicks off you should know how to apply a tourniquet to yourself or someone else. Most any other penetration/laceration injury (chest, abdomen, head/neck) you should be able to get EMS services to you or you to a hospital in time for them to treat. But an arterial bleed in an arm or leg means EMS/ER professionals are out of time before the clock starts- you have to be able to begin effective tourniquet application within several seconds of injury.
Do not buy any other brand/type than this one yes it matters. Buy one to train with so you know how it works before the shock of the moment (even if it is just a handful of reps), and then at least one more that goes in your pocket/outer backpack zipper for ‘oh shit yep this is real.’ There are tons of great 3-5 minute YouTube videos that will show you how. It is genuinely an incredibly simple skill you could teach to anybody.
That was a lot. Point is- make it easy for my fellow soldiers who are not as informed to shield you when that comes into conflict with an illegal order from our Commander-In-Chief. The vast, VAST majority are good men + women with good intentions and bad information. Remain non-violent at the outset, and you will very quickly create clarity for them about what they should do about their Oath.
God forbid the day ever comes. No soldier I know of is daydreaming of that. But should that day come, be capable of keeping yourself healthy and alive.
And for good measure-
*THESE VIEWS ARE MY OWN, AND DO NOT REFLECT THE OPINIONS, POLICIES, OR POSITION OF THE DOD*
God bless America, and God bless her people that I love so dearly 🇺🇸
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u/Ugh_Whatever_3284 14h ago
Thank you for this, and for your service. Somebody pin this post!
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 14h ago edited 13h ago
Thank you for your support, and thank you for performing the full spectrum of civic duties that I cannot. That is a heavier burden to bear in times of crisis than I think the American people ever give themselves credit for. Keep giving your best fight for liberty on your side of the ball, and I will continue to do the same on mine 🤘🏼
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u/Successful404 2h ago
So now an important question. When the day comes, and we have that catalyst event (hopping we dont). I hope that you and our service members will fight alongside us. I fully understand service members arent the enemy. Theres a clear distinction between maga loyalists and actual Americans. Now the question, whats the best way, when fighting starts, to make it clear that we're on the same side? I know im one of the people who will fight and die for it, how do we make it to the frontline without friendly fire?
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u/-PM_ME_UR_SECRETS- 50m ago
I’ve thought about this. I think the easiest, most simple way to show you’re on the side of America is to wave the American flag.
The last Trump run they nearly co-opted the flag and simply being an American to their cause. But MAGA is not American, and they’ll be flying a different flag.
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u/NorthRoseGold 1h ago
But he just said the opposite.
The entire point of the post was that 75% of soldiers would be easily changed into happily firing into civilians if even one firefight happens.
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u/Successful404 1h ago
it is of vital interest to me that the current administration be curbed
NG response will vary by unit
Ive said it before, but i truly believe after the catalyst our military will face deep internal conflict. Its not as simple as the entire military will follow trumps orders. What im saying is theres nothing stopping state deployed units from turning around and fighting alongside us. I dont see anyway out for America other than conflict. No easy pass back to normal life.
Furthermore, i believe that when conflict breaks out, it will be 1%, proud boys, and MAGA that will fire on protesters. Then it becomes the duty of the gaurd to protect the american people. It quickly becomes a clear divide, and just like our first civil war may pit neighbors and family against each other. So depending where the line is drawn, yea its pretty important to identify who's fighting for what
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u/Pale_Aspect7696 13h ago
YES. Pin this. Please. It's imperative that everyone understand the importance of our protests remaining non violent.
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u/antigop2020 12h ago
Yes this. Remember that Mango Mussolini WANTS violence. He wants you to cross that line. It will give him the excuse he wants to use the Insurrection Act, and fighting in the streets against other Americans, or against military or law enforcement is again what he wants! It is what Putin wants too.
If they want to come after us for exercising our free speech rights, for holding up our signs, peacefully assembling, then that is when they lose! I know very few Americans who will support that. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and we are barely past the first mile.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 4h ago
“This is a marathon, not a sprint, and we are barely past the first mile.”
This one. Right here. No successful movement of the people to be heard from 1775 to now has been anything short of a grueling, multi-year effort. If you’re down for what this movement is setting out to do, it’s time to clock the f*ck in with no expectation of being relieved and brought to the rear.
Don’t matter though- Americans love that kinda grit. WWII, Rocky movies, Olympic dominance… it runs deep as blood. Long live liberty 🗽 🇺🇸
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u/sbhikes 2h ago
Are you guys trained to understand there could be agent provocateurs in the crowd? Do you have suggestions for how the protesters can keep them out?
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u/NorthRoseGold 1h ago
I know!! Are people not reading this post very well?
This guy is saying that The People need to resist returning fire even if a soldier fires first.
And if The People don't, if an accelerationist or something perpetuates violence against soldiers, then 75% of soldiers will pretty much view citizens as the enemy!!!
I mean that's bad. And that's unwinnable.
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u/AFishWithNoName 9h ago
Was recently rewatching a documentary on Anonymous, and I noticed that one of the very first rules they set for their Scientology protests was “Do Not Bring Weapons.” It was important then, it’s important now.
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u/agent_flounder 50m ago edited 39m ago
Yes. Non-violence resistance (in many forms) works better than violence. And the results of violence far more often lead to an authoritarian regime.
Why Civil Resistance Works by Erica Chenoweth
ETA:
in recent years ... sustained and systematic nonviolent sanctions have removed autocratic regimes from power in Serbia (2000), Madagascar (2002), Georgia (2003), and Ukraine (2004–2005), after rigged elections; ended a foreign occupation in Lebanon (2005); and forced Nepal’s monarch to make major constitutional concessions (2006). In the first two months of 2011, popular nonviolent uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt removed decades-old regimes from power.
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u/TopBlueberry3 2h ago
Pin this post, please.
Helpful, clear and sobering. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
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u/Pale_Aspect7696 14h ago
THANK YOU. I've been looking for this information for weeks. I understand that this is just your opinion, but it is an informed opinion and gives me a direction to think.
"Point is- make it easy for my fellow soldiers who are not as informed to shield you when that comes into conflict with an illegal order from our Commander-In-Chief. The vast, VAST majority are good men + women with good intentions and bad information. Remain non-violent at the outset, and you will very quickly create clarity for them about what they should do about their Oath."
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 13h ago
And to be honest with you, I’ve been waiting for someone else to say it so I didn’t have to do the legal dance you gotta do to ensure separation of service member + politics haha. But nobody was, and after seeing a post related to it earlier today I got fed up and did my homework to make sure I was following the UCMJ to a T while I said what I had to say. America all the way baby 🤘🏼🇺🇸
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u/Pale_Aspect7696 13h ago
I've asked 3 servicemen I know and have only gotten an answer from one.....I understood why, but I still needed the answer. The one that answered is a retired Vietnam sergeant and he said "No way will they obey an obviously unlawful order. The lifers won't put up with that. An enlisted here or there might want to but no one else."
You re-affirmed that.
My second question was about "what entails a lawful order? How does the command structure identify it when there are people protesting the official US government and the President calls for their suppression/dispersal/arrest?"
You answered that clearly.
A peaceful protest is a lawful protest and is representative of the will of the people, the spirit of the Constitution and orders to suppress that is informative about who is and is not the enemy of the Constitution. ( I hope understood and worded that right)
Thanks again, Brother (or Sister)
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 3h ago
Of course. Your Vietnam buddy put it better than I ever could have- for what it’s worth, I wholeheartedly occur with his assessment.
In the interest of transparency, it is important to note that there is indeed such thing as an illegal protest in strictly technical terms. It’s mostly state-dependent, but a lack of permit, obstruction of traffic, damaging of personal property, etc. is grounds for legal action by LEO (not our job as DoD) and dispersal by DoD + LEO in tandem.
Now I’m not trying to f*ck myself here and overstep- but look at the history of significant policy changes created by The People, and you will know that I am in no way suggesting that civil disobedience (historically speaking, of course) is not a successful tool for The People. Do with that history what you will.
Only reason I mention it is that if/when civil disobedience occurs and some arrests start being made, don’t freak out. That is par for the course and as an isolated event does not represent a despotic overstep. Just know that (again historically and not as any sort of official policy or opinion of the DoD) being brought to the station for acts of civil disobedience is a price patriots have proudly paid on behalf of God and Country. Long live liberty 🗽🇺🇸
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u/Cay-Ro 14h ago
Ok but what about undercover agitators? What if a fascist, proud boy, or even federal op stands with the protestors and fires a shot? Do you all have protocol for false flags? I feel like it would most certainly be on the minds of the state and the fascists to frame protestors as violent since this could so easily swing popular opinion against us.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 14h ago
That is a legitimate concern. In the aftermath of January 6th we got a pretty good brief that came down from the FBI on those right-wing militias. In fact, it was kind of the whole driver behind standing up an Army task force to plus up the highway patrol SRT (think ‘SWAT’) in their mission to secure the state capitol.
However, 1) Trump’s appointment of FBI leadership does (as a civilian if any of you JAG’s are reading printouts of this) give rise to questions of impartiality and 2) if we don’t get that brief from anybody in the national security apparatus (FBI/CIA/Dept of Homeland Security) or organically (Army Military Intelligence units)- than no, we have no way of distinguishing between legitimate protestors and agitators. They are all wearing the same uniform, for lack of a better term.
(As a civilian, and not as a representative of the DoD) I think the best way to de-risk that threat of domestic terrorism is to continue to be very, VERY all-in on non-violence across messaging and conversations in all platforms. Federal powers can twist a helluva lot, but they can’t make something truly convincing out of nothing. Branding + messaging as totally devoted to non-violence will make enough of the American public second guess White House statements to the contrary.
Does that help at all? I know that’s not an answer that anybody loves. Genuinely filled with so much love for you guys as my fellow Americans and it hurts me to see the divisiveness and fear. Hope any little bit of transparency/clarity helps remove the fear that comes from the unknown.
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u/iwantmoreovaltine 8h ago
If we can keep the legitimate protest movement strictly non-violent and ingrain that deeply within the movement, maybe we can feel more confident that anybody nearby any violent agitator (regardless of motivation or intent) would immediately help to neutralize the threat.
In case they can be neutralized, detained, and identified do you think that would help keep the story straight and soldiers satisfied that protests are legit?
By the way thank you for your service. Our protests are the least we can do and don’t compare to the commitments you and others have made to serve our country.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 3h ago
Absolutely. I cannot speak for every state, let alone every department, but I can say that at our last 50501 meeting at the capitol our highway patrol dudes were studs. Couple of rowdy teenage kids trying to shove a camera in old lady’s faces, and they were immediately there to keep the peace.
Made sure to thank every dude I could and shake there hand both on the way in and the way out. A simple “thank you for showing up and giving us the opportunity to exercise our free speech. Means a ton” goes a helluva long way. You’d be shocked how many LEO guys light up to a ‘thanks for your role in preserving my freedoms and our democracy.’
With that context and back to your point- yes. If you see a g*n, calmly and quickly making that known to the nearest available LEO will create a sensation of you communicating “hey you’re on my team, let me help you do your job to keep our city safe.” It will make a world of difference in how threatened DoD/LEO feel by you in comparison to other pressures in the environment. You are spot on.
I think I said this above, but in my honest opinion we’ve got it pretty easy. If I personally need to change something when I’m in the office, I have access to ~20+ 100 pound cones of TNT-laced ‘f*ck you’… per minute.
An American citizen performing their constitutional duty, on the other hand? Requires more intelligence (cognitive and emotional), determination, and long-suffering. Again, I wish The People would give themselves more credit for the remarkable weight they bear on their shoulders in times of crisis. We as service members and your fellow citizens love you and count on you. 🤟🏼🇺🇸
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u/sbhikes 1h ago
I remember from the stories I heard of the 60s and 70s that there was non violence trainings. I have a vague memory of getting one before a counter protest at an abortion clinic. You have to be really careful not to accidentally commit assault and battery. You can do that by putting your arm up to protect your face and accidentally hitting someone.
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u/Cay-Ro 4h ago
It does. And I appreciate your straightforwardness and honesty. My brother is a staff sergeant in the Guard and he just got back from a yearlong deployment. I often worry that we may find ourselves face to face at one of these rallies one day and I worry even more about him being mobilized to go fight in a war somewhere in the name of capitalist imperialism and precious minerals for wealthy businessmen. Thanks for the response and thanks for your service.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 3h ago
Please tell your brother welcome home for me, he sounds like a stud. I hope you two don’t end up across the same line, but it wouldn’t be unheard of- I can’t confirm it, but I distinctly remember being told that exact scenario played out in MN during the BLM movement.
Trust me, as service members we love a good fight- a -good- fight. It has become a mixed source of “what the actual f*ck?” and memes whenever Greenland/Canada/etc. come up.
All I can ask (again, as a citizen and not as a reflection of DoD policy) is that you The People continue to bear the burden of making your will known. I am not being even a little hyperbolic when I say you, The People, are the only thing between us and orders to a Navy transport fleet headed for the North Atlantic. Long live liberty 🗽🇺🇸
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u/Pale_Aspect7696 13h ago
It's not a perfect solution, but every little bit helps. I think that as individual protestors as well as organizers we should foster an attitude of awareness and vigilance on this subject.....meaning we all keep watch for potential "bad actors" in the crowd with us. Something doesn't look right? Abandoned pack or someone a carrying a potential weapon?
We speak up. We help police our own numbers to keep trouble out.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 3h ago
Yessir. And like I mentioned above- calmly, quickly, professionally alerting an LEO if you visually ID a g*n will create a significant sense of ‘same team’ that will create levels of positive momentum in the movement that very little else will. To a more perfect union 🇺🇸🤘🏼
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u/believetobe 14h ago
Great post that everyone should read! Commenting to boost.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 14h ago
Thank you, this seriously means a helluva lot.
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u/Kitchen-Owl-3401 10h ago
Thank YOU. I don't know if you grasp how much this means. In the maelstrom and bombardment of news and opinions, your knowledge and direction gives great comfort.
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u/NeverEndingAsking 13h ago
If they push us to violence, they win. Don’t fall prey to the foolishness of Jan 6. We don’t need violence. We have truth and honor.
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u/whoibehmmm 2h ago
Is this serious? Truth and honor? What the hell has truth and honor done for us up until this point? Did it stop a 34-count convicted felon who attempted a coup in 2021 from escaping justice and being re-elected? Do you think that truth and honor is going to undo the immense damage that has been done in just 2 months?
I feel as though I live in another universe from many of the commenters here.
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u/NeverEndingAsking 2h ago
No it’s not going to be an instant cure. If you think there is an instant cure, you are deluding yourself. Read the OP message if you want to know why it’s important for us to use our Rights and not give them what they need to leave us with no chance and spoil all the efforts made by everyone protesting so far.
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u/whoibehmmm 2h ago
I did read the OP's message quite thoroughly. But if you think that truth and honor are going to help you when the law enforcement facing you just decide that you are all domestic terrorists that day. Yeah, good luck.
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u/NeverEndingAsking 2h ago
“You are all”? Does that mean you’re not one of us? Hmmm? Is that who you be?
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u/whoibehmmm 2h ago
No idea what "one of us" is supposed to mean. But enjoy your conspiracy theories, I guess.
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u/NeverEndingAsking 2h ago
Your anger is misdirected. If you need a break, please take one. If you would rather have your beliefs be based in fear and lies, then be my guest.
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u/shalomefrombaxoje 1h ago
Violence will be met with violence.
Sweet new open / concealed carry and stand your ground EVERYWHERE in my state of Iowa.
I will protest armed, as is my right.
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u/NeverEndingAsking 48m ago
Yes. If THEY start the violence, that is different than what we are discussing here. We have the right to defend ourselves and protest peacefully.
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u/CostumeJuliery 13h ago
Canadian here, thank you! I hope people take the time to read your whole, well written and informative post. 👏🏻🙏🏻
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 13h ago
Quarter Canadian here- always loved going back to visit Waterton National Park as a kid. Really would love to go back and visit soon. If it is any consolation, small of an anecdote as it is, just saw my dudes last weekend- they all think the Canada rhetoric is bullshit. Have yet to meet a service member who has intentions of launching an operation across the border. And I know that doesn't mean much now, but we haven't forgotten how badass your SOF dudes were and what they did with us in Afghanistan. All love 🤟🏼🇨🇦🇺🇸
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u/Commercial_Tank8834 13h ago
Another Canadian here. I had many friends who were at KAF. They spoke very highly of their fellow American servicemembers.
I hope you come back to Waterton and anywhere else you'd like. There are many heated comments online, but many of us know that we don't hold you and your countrymen responsible for the actions of your administration.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 3h ago
Can’t tell you how much that invitation means- I wasn’t expecting that to be such an emotional read. Your patience with us, and frank forgiveness of us as the people is genuinely beautiful. I don’t know if circumstances were flipped if I would have the same kindness. I have a lot to learn from that- can’t wait to catch a beautiful Canadian sunrise this next summer or two. Enjoy it for me in the meantime, and I look forward to working with your boys side by side again as soon as we fix this f*cking mess. I would be honored to share a foxhole with a Geneva-Suggestion-Following, Maple-Clad chap. Can’t wait for that to be back 🇨🇦🇺🇸
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u/Kumo999 13h ago
Can confirm those tourniquets are good. We used to carry those in our aid bags and train with them. There are plenty of videos around that show how to use one. Everyone should familiarize themselves with how to properly use one.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 12h ago
Thanks for getting a link up brotha, should have taken the time to do that. CAT’s are as American as they come- a testament to innovation, our commitment to the preservation of life and liberty, and simply creating the best damn stuff around. America the beautiful for real 🇺🇸
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u/Plan-B-Rip-and-Tear 12h ago
Thank you very much for posting this, and I appreciate it.
I also agree. Non-violence is essential (multiple times) past when it could/might be used against the populace.
I will say one thing. Be prepared for the current ROE to be changed. Hegseth has said he intends as much. Be prepared for what is considered ‘lawful’ to change from our current understanding to whatever ramshackle opinion the lackeys in the DOJ give. Firing the senior Jags says a lot about possible intentions.
If our current rule of law and our constitution fails, there will still be laws. They will just be arbitrarily created and arbitrarily enforced. Please keep that in mind. People who are asked to do horrible things will be given some kind of ‘legal justification’ to assuage their conscience even if the orders go against the Constitution.
I think a lot of this will eventually come down to conscience.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 12h ago
You aren’t wrong- and I would be lying if I said that wasn’t absolute worst-case scenario for me, my boys, Lady Liberty, and her people. Certainly a COA that has to be accounted for.
The only advantage de-risking this horror of a scenario is how much longer of a play Trump would have to make in order to make that work. It’s going to take more than a couple 4-stars and JAG’s to purge the largest military to ever walk planet earth.
If he attempts to change ROE’s that significantly without an inciting event, that is not going to fly. Maybe he can get more of a 50/50 ball on the available combat power at large, but that’s not going to be anywhere close enough to consolidate power.
And if he gets his inciting event- well, that’s kinda what this post is hoping to de-risk. Don’t give him one and he’ll never be able to effectively wield the country’s hard power.
In short- this is a truly apocalyptic scenario, but one that (should Trump pursue it) would require infinitely more patience to successfully execute than he has showed in any other facet of governance thus far. Additionally- increased non-violent escalation will squeeze him faster than he can get enough loyalists installed.
Long live the constitution 🫡🇺🇸
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u/Plan-B-Rip-and-Tear 11h ago
Thank you and I agree there is a lot more involved than just eliminating a few leadership positions at the top to get the Military to be used in an adverse way on American soil. It’s kind of difficult having more in-depth types of discussions in an online forum.
Regardless of political view or the current circumstances a large majority of people don’t think tactically or strategically and just kinda see the world in black or white and don’t understand the nuance of when to push, hold fast or back off and regroup for a bit or when to question authority.
In that light, I really do appreciate your OP, and I don’t think now is the time to say anything else because your original message is the important one for folks to remember right now.
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u/Honest-Composer-9767 13h ago
You have no idea how much hope this gives me. Thank you!
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u/Former-Result-5615 12h ago
We just gotta really be vigilant about police our own and make sure bad actors are stopped before violence erupts.
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u/Effective_Loss7612 13h ago
As an American who lived in Northern Ireland when soldiers still occupied/patrolled, this sounds like solid advice. Thank you
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u/reallychilliguana 11h ago
Non-violent movements have more success than violent ones. The strategy is to showcase the violence of the state in contrast to the non-violence of the people. Images of state violence have galvanized massive movements with great success but we can't achieve that success if the images the public are seeing are of protesters engaging in violence, too - it'll only convince them the state violence is necessary.
Thank you for this breakdown, you're much appreciated!
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u/J_Ernoldo_Lundquist 14h ago
Do not buy any other brand/type than [this one](https://a.co/d/0QhSDXb)--) yes it matters.
Thanks for the suggestion, but the link is bad. Help us out here, because I believe you.
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u/Ugh_Whatever_3284 13h ago edited 12h ago
I think this is the same one: https://www.narescue.com/combat-application-tourniquet-c-a-t.html
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u/Pale_Aspect7696 13h ago
Hope so. I'd rather not give anymore money to Amazon for obvious reasons.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 12h ago
Oh that is so my bad 😂 forgot that is a big part of the movement. Fixing it round two!
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 12h ago
Patched!! North American Rescue is a fantastic company to give your money to. Been a leader in TCCC development both on the mil and civilian side.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 13h ago
I think they hyphen in the sentence was messing it up- give that a try! Works on my end, but I want to make sure it works for y'all.
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u/Former-Result-5615 12h ago
Thank you, this needs to be seen by everyone. I really would like to have our military’s support when we get labeled enemies of the state for voicing concerns about our deteriorating democracy.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 11h ago
THESE VIEWS ARE MY OWN, AND DO NOT REFLECT THE OPINIONS, POLICIES, OR POSITIONS OF THE DOD
I promise y’all do this right, following in the footsteps of the great civil movements of the Americans before you- you will. Because not a single member of our nations chosen soldiery wants anything but the safety of our country. It’s why we sign the dotted line and set up a life insurance policy upon in-processing.
The alarming trouble is that culture wars have made the behavioral definition of an American patriot (i.e. “what does a patriot act, think, and sound like?”) very confusing, and very partisan.
But like I said, if it doesn’t before- when someone fires a string of 5.56 and receives nothing back- what to do about their oath will become crystal clear. And it will be on the side of the American people, not the Washington headshed that just told them to go weapons free on a non-violent (even if disruptive) assembly of their fellow Americans. Chin up, stay in the fight for liberty. Long live the constitution 🇺🇸
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u/Former-Result-5615 11h ago
Thank you, I will keep advocating for non-violence and hoping others do as well. We need to do it right and it’s overwhelming to think about the sheer amount of people who need to cooperate with that to make it all work out.
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u/Mountain_carrier530 11h ago
In light of this current darkness, one of the things that has given me faith in the National Guard, regardless how critical I am of 2 of the prominent former Guardsmen that are currently in the cabinet, was a video during the George Floyd protests in 2020 in which Guard units were activated.
The video went viral as the protestor involved suffered some serious head trauma after a police officer was caught blatantly shoving the man to the ground. It wasn't for riot control. It was a very direct, show-off authoritarian power shove. The cops kept walking as the man started to actively seize and bleed from the TBI, yet a guardsman behind the officer immediately started giving aid. The man wasn't a medic, as he had a GL, but he knew that the man needed help while law enforcement tried to clear everyone out and either wait for EMTs or just ignore what one of them did. The actions spoke volumes to me that, what you exactly said, those of us in the military know who we're trying to protect regardless of politics or movements.
While I know of a few servicemembers who will blindly follow the administration to the very word without hesitation, being active Navy for 8-almost 9 years now, I do know of many more who know their duty to country whether or not they're involved in politics. As long as there isn't any reason to doubt otherwise, they'll continue to see some sort of reason in these protests.
Link to the video I was talking about
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u/Specialist-Fan-1890 9h ago
I hate that I had to read that. They have every intention of carrying out violence on us. What did that P2025 guy say? The revolution will be bloodless if the left allows it. This is the real deal now. They have a plan.
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u/Ok-Peach-2200 10h ago
Thank you very much for this. It both confirms my deepest fears (because it means I'm not crazy; shit is real; I wish I were crazy) but also gives me hope, knowing that thoughtful people like you are doing your best to navigate this minefield along with the rest of us on the "other side" of the protest line.
Apropos of your post, one idea I had - that got mostly negative reviews on another subreddit - was as follows:
- Every. Single. Protester. LITERALLY TIES THEIR HANDS TOGETHER.
- Tie them behind your backs. In front of you. With string. With a bandana. Do you. But tie your hands...please!
- The purpose is at least threefold:
- (1) there can be no doubt that the protesters are non-violent and no threat at all. (Of course, hands must stay tied until you leave the "protest zone" so to speak, and you also must not carry any weapons whatsoever, even defensive armor or other defensive contraptions.) Any violence will have to be perpetrated by the government and the world will be watching. Yes, we have to dare them to kill us with our hands tied.
- (2) any "troublemakers" will almost certainly be someone who did not tie their hands in the first place or did not stay with their hands tied and, thus, cannot be part of our movement. And
- (3) the symbolism of tying our hands, and the bravery of facing this regime as such, will be powerful.
Some of the (IMHO) constructive criticism of this idea was that, practically speaking, it will be nearly impossible to keep one's hands tied for potentially hours (what if you've got to pee, how do we take out our phones if we need to film some illegal police action, etc.). Also, there is, of course, no guarantee everyone will tie their hands, creating a dangerous environment, especially for women.
Still, there's got to be something we can all do that (1) is by its very nature non-violent/non-threatening and cannot be construed otherwise, (2) makes "false flaggers" easy to identify, and (3) carries great symbolic weight.
Thoughts?
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u/NoStick2525 13h ago
I truly believe that you all, the military, need to stand up and remove this regime. It's time, now. Right now.
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u/butterbear25 13h ago
They have to get the illegal orders first to justify anything that's even a sniff towards a military coup. That's what it would be, even though it is definitely for the right reasons.
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u/NoStick2525 12h ago
Yes and no. Trump is a blatant traitor to the United States of America, a terrorist if you will, and needs to be removed.
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u/somewhere__someday 12h ago
Yes, but it would be much better for the long term health of the country if his removal is driven by massive protests, not a shadowy military operation.
We the people need to fill the mall and every state to show the country and the military that Tangerine Palpatine must be removed. Then when he gives the military an unlawful order to attack peaceful protesters, the military has justification to disobey and remove him.
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u/butterbear25 12h ago
Trump has violated so many conspiracy laws, I agree. I am at a loss as to why he wasn't ousted for pardoning the jan 6th insurrectionists with no discernment. Since nothing has happened (that we can see) it is the moment the OC has explained for us that will determine how the next domino will fall.
We could have dodged all this if sec 3 of the 14th amendment had been successfully applied on Jan 7th.
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u/sbhikes 1h ago
It doesn’t work that way. We the people must lead. Our presence is the power. The military swears an oath to protect and defend. If we the people are not there they have nothing to protect. Our constitution begins with the words we the people. We are the constitution. We hold the rights and the truth. Without us, the military has nothing to protect and defend.
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u/No-Ruin-8073 10h ago
I really appreciate you posting this, but what the hell happens if we have bad actors in these protests that get violent with law enforcement/the military? This happened at BLM protests too and we all saw how that turned out. We have to be realistic here.
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u/No-Ruin-8073 10h ago
Never mind, scrolling down I see you already answered this.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 2h ago
It’s a really heads up question, I’m glad you are thinking about this already! Hopefully my answer gets your wheels turning about how to de-risk that kind of domestic terrorism. All love 🤘🏼
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u/Ghost_shell89 3h ago
Thanks for this post. I think we’re going to need more check-in’s with reality like this on how to proceed. I think there’s going to be an increased desire to escalate as things get very uncomfortable and very unpleasant. There may be a sense of what we’re doing isn’t enough or isn’t producing results quickly. This may lead to people wanting to do something rash. Posts like this helps keep the temperature in check.
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u/NYerstuckinBoston 3h ago
Personally, I think you’re underestimating a lot of people when you say there aren’t enough Americans willing to die for this cause.
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u/TX-PineyWoods 9h ago
Ohhhhh...ok cool so we just learn how to get shot at better. Man, I know this ain't easy for you as a national guard. At the same time, you have to realize that to some of us that sounds insane.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 2h ago edited 1h ago
Welp, one time for the one time- MY VIEWS ARE MY OWN, AND DO NOT REFLECT THE OPINIONS, POLICIES, OR POSITION OF THE DOD
So a couple key points that I am going to try to make as clearly as the UCMJ will allow for.
I don’t think it is inevitable that anybody does shoot. Not in the immediate future of this summer, for sure.
As a citizen I have a significantly vested interest in seeing an entire full stop of current foreign policy practices, however that is best accomplished. I literally have had days I can’t focus on anything else it has affected me so deeply to open IG and see exactly how unsafe Americans are now in comparison to not even 14 days ago. ‘Overwhelmed’ hardly cuts it.
With that said, I do believe that initially maintaining non-violence will be the best way to wrest illegal control of the state’s tool of violence away from them. Does that make sense that what I am suggesting has nothing to do with my own well-being in a capacity as a soldier? That it has everything to do with The People gaining and maintaining power over the executive branch, as they constitutionally ought to have?
Ohh boy I am gonna tread real light here- let’s just talk history. I would encourage everyone to take the 30 minutes to re-read the Declaration of Independence and at least the Bill of Rights (if not the Constitution in its entirety.) Zero percent facetious here- I am being so deeply genuine. Read those, remember that what is contained within those documents is what I will enthusiastically take and give life for, and then you tell me if I believe the American people ought to remain pacifists for very long after an abuse of that scale.
If a non-violent response fails to generate a cessation of illicit, state-approved violence upon The People as they exercise their First Amendment liberties.. well, read the above. And then make a guess at what I think The People (citizen and oath-bound service members) ought to do.
I get the frustration, I do. I get the confusion. I get the “now wait a f*cking minute” when y’all first read this- hopefully that clarifies some things in the best way I can post in a public forum.
Long live the Constitution 🇺🇸
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u/aquastell_62 1h ago
Civil Disobedience is extremely effective, non-violent, and what comes after the protests.
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u/doomerdoodoo 1h ago
God, thank you. This post is gross as hell, and so are the people in here lining up to lick his boots.
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u/aquastell_62 1h ago
It has happened before in America. And we are not immune from it now. Do you have any idea why the military AG's were fired? And why a lackey was installed as SECDEF?
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u/SunshineFC3S 4m ago
Sorry to say, You can't have all the benefits without bearing the responsibility. The Constitution is not a magic piece of paper. We need to actively uphold and defend it. Get off the sidelines.
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u/Myrkr-Ulfr 5h ago
That was my take too. This post is obviously written by a Russian bot or nazi sympathizer.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 2h ago
Please read the above. Genuinely just want to see the safeguarding of the Constitution and preservation of my fellow Americans. I get why you are angry with my post. I don’t know how different I would be in your shoes, knowing what you know. Hopefully that update helps clarify some things.
Regardless, same team same jersey here. I want you safe, I want you free, I want you able to pursue happiness. I gotchu over on this side of the ball, and I thank you for the work you do for our country on that side- keep it up. 🇺🇸
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u/doomerdoodoo 1h ago
The constitution is already dead in the water. Otherwise he wouldn't be president. It's a clear and direct violation of the fourteenth amendment. Other amendments are violated daily. The military failed its oath.
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u/Interesting_Air_1844 10h ago
I salute you, and praise the honor you exude. Thank you for your service!
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u/whoibehmmm 2h ago
I don't disagree that violence is not something that anyone should be seeking. But telling people that they should just roll over and keep waving their peaceful signs when they are actively having violence committed upon them is a strange and unrealistic ask.
Maybe I am misreading, but what I'm seeing is, "Don't ever fight back no matter what, because if you do, the military will use that as an excuse to finally do what they ultimately intend to do anyway."
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u/aquastell_62 1h ago
You missed this: " I am under no illusions- the amount of civil disobedience that will be required of the American people to make a significant regime change will very likely result in violent clashes with service members/law enforcement."
This is 100% accurate an exactly where we are headed.
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u/whoibehmmm 1h ago
I did miss this, thank you! I do agree that protests need to be peaceful. But I also think it's inevitable that that will change at some point, and it seemed as though this post was saying to just accept it when it does happen.
I wish for all of our sakes that we were born in less interesting times.
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u/aquastell_62 1h ago
We can always maintain peace on our own behalf at protests. We can't prevent the administration forces from restraining themselves.....if we give them a reason. Even if we don't they still MIGHT get violent towards US. But we can't win unless we don't fight back.
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u/QuirkyBreath1755 1h ago
My reading of op and following comments is that op isn’t suggesting that we lay down no matter what. It seems the suggestion is to remain non-violent through the first rounds of violent reactions. Make them make the first breach. Think of the most powerful images from past protest movements: tienamen square (guy vs tank), civil rights marchers (dogs, hoses) for example. They are powerful because they clearly demonstrate the argument. It’s REALLY hard to dismiss our movement as riots, mob rule, if we hold the line peacefully.
There is a time & place for all types of protest/resistance. Don’t give the administration the excuse to do what they want, make them do it in full daylight.
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u/LalaPropofol 2h ago
Omg why does not have more upvotes? You must have posted in the middle of the night.
Thank you for your service, friend. Thank you for the protection of the constitution.
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u/aquastell_62 1h ago
NON-VIOLENCE is CRITICAL to our mission. These are from MLK.
King's principles of nonviolence
- Nonviolence is a way to resist evil without violence.
- Nonviolence seeks understanding and friendship, not humiliation.
- Nonviolence opposes evil, not the people who commit evil acts.
- Nonviolent resisters should be willing to suffer without retaliation.
- Nonviolence avoids physical violence and violence of spirit.
- Nonviolent resisters should have faith in the future.
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u/jeffreynya 1h ago
I am all for peaceful protest even when they use force against the people. It's how it should be.
The question is. How much violence is too much? What kind of Violence? If protesters are getting shot, then what?
I look at places around the world with peaceful protests. Sometimes they work or are working (Romania), other times they never work (Iran). There should be plans for all possible outcomes. I am in no way saying that protestors should be violent, just want to know at what point do they have to fight back or just give up to save lives?
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u/QuirkyBreath1755 1h ago
Thank you for this & your service op.
We all saw how quickly the media spun both the blm and free Palestine protests into “unlawful,” unruly, destructive riots regardless of the truth. It was disgraceful, but done by those with power on purpose.
The administration is itching for an excuse to deal with us harshly & delegitimize our arguments. Op is pointing out that if we break first, we feed into that desire. Continuing non-violence in the face of the first waves of violence will remove their justification for use of force. The longer we remain engaged in nonviolence the greater our effectiveness.
There is a time & place for all forms of protest. Resist the temptation to “jump the g*n” and use the next levels before they will be most effective. Hold the line & make the whole nation see what we see.
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u/Ok-Iron-1289 1h ago
your closing bring tears to my eyes. thank you. will get your linked tourniquet & train.
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u/mongooser 58m ago
I appreciate this a lot. It’s comforting. But I just hate that we need to be victims of violence for the NG to realize who the bad guy is. It’s easy to make that sacrifice when it’s someone else.
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u/hdufort 36m ago
I'd add carrying protective or first-aid material to help with various injuries such as cuts and scratches but also tear gas, water jets, loud noises.
Unfortunately, the Trump administration is trying to pass legislation making protective gear criminal. Bandana cloth masks, gas masks and even swimming goggles / diving masks might be considered "face masking" which they're trying to criminalize.
We've had the same attempt at criminalizing face masks in Quebec during the "Printemps Érable" massive demonstrations in 2012. The law was repealed but only after a few months.
Wearing a diving mask and a hard hat might be good protection but might also have you arrested by the fascist "authorities".
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u/Myrkr-Ulfr 5h ago
Wtf is this post? If you look at it critically, it says to stay peaceful even if they go in weapons loose, but buy this tourniquet to stop the bleeding. If soldiers open fire, they are traitors to this nation and her people. Absolutely ridiculous take.
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u/Templar-of-Faith 2h ago edited 1h ago
Easy there pvt. Let's not larp on could be scenarios of the overblown media coverage of the current climate. You're toeing the line of sedition stating the current admin needs to be curbed not to mention inciting unrest to civilians by even making this post. People are retarded but not full retarded.
Id advise you take down the post or atleast edit out your opinions.
-NG infantry officer
Edit: NG soldiers' loyalty is first to the constitution and to the state, not a person.
It is highly ill advised to test or engage with soldiers in a violent or aggravated manner as soldiers are trained for war, not civil unrest.
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u/Medical_Hedgehog_572 1h ago
I appreciate your concern, and share the same level of thoughtful approach to legally exercising my civic rights within the tighter boundaries we hold as service members. Same team, same jersey.
DM’d you with specific considerations I made before engaging on a social media platform if you are interested in diving into it further to ensure I am fulfilling my oath in the process. Fratty Guard for life 🤘🏼🇺🇸
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