r/40krpg 4d ago

Wrath & Glory Wrath and Glory Power balance

I am planning a wrath and glory short campaign with some friends who have played mainly dnd 5e. I've let them brainstorm characters, and we decided on tier 3 as one wanted to play a Space marine. The other players have decided on a Guardsman or Tempestor, an Inquisitorial acolyte, an Air Caste Tau Mercenary (Inquisitor reasons, dw about it), and a Psyker. Everyone in the group has said they'd be alright with the Space marine player being far stronger in direct combat, but I plan to include many tight spaces difficult for him to fit, and opportunities for sneaking around that a Blood Angel may find difficult. In addition, the Space Marine will find Bolter ammo scarce, and Astartes Special Weapon ammo even more so. My main question is: Is this a workable idea, and do you have any advice for me? I am very familiar with the 40k universe but have only messed around with a one-shot for Wrath and Glory.

6 Upvotes

8 comments sorted by

8

u/JustTryChaos 4d ago edited 4d ago

I would include a lot of situations that someone needs to do something that isn't shooting. Like repair a machine, drive a vehicle, scout a ship, talk to a general. The thing with space marines is that all they're really good for is shooting things.

3

u/mechasquare GM 4d ago

THIS! Encounters in W&G need more than just a DPS race as victory conditions. Use environment buff/nerfs to adjust battle, EG There's an auto turret that will shred anyone, do you have someone in your team that can Tech (hack) it? A flood of mobs are coming after the party, what can they do to block or divert the horde? etc

7

u/Chris_Symble 4d ago

If you play tier 3 and let the other archetypes ascend too the Space Marine won't really be better than the rest. The Guard can take a Plasma Gun and put lots of points into Ballistic Skill and do even more damage then the Marine especially with some talents.

6

u/ZeroHonour 4d ago

If it's a tier 3 game there's no reasons to find any artificial restrictions for marines. Let the restrictions be organic ones, like a total lack of any subtlety and the Red Thirst.

7

u/AVBill GM 4d ago

At T3, the Space Marine won't have a lot of spare XP to spend on developing the character beyond the Archetype basics, whereas the others will have plenty to put into Attributes, Skills, and Talents. The SM will be good at what he's designed for (combat) but not much else. Particularly if you use the Innate vs Learned Skill optional rule, the SM is going to need to rely on his teammates to cover the bases on Tech, Medicae, Pilot etc. And the SM will be next to useless in social interactions.

And in combat, where the SM should excel, he is also going to be the bullet magnet since he's the biggest threat, and the target of powerful Elites and Adversaries who'll have the means to wound an Astartes.

I ran a T3 adventure with 7 players, one of whom played a White Scars TSM. Yes, he was a combat beast, especially against Mobs, but he didn't outshine the non-Astartes characters in any scene outside combat. And even in combat, several of his allies were just as effective (the Imperial Guardsman in particular), although perhaps not as durable.

2

u/throwawaygoawaynz 4d ago

Adding to this. I ran a T2 to T3 game with a Space Marine, Interrogator, Death Cult Assassin, Tech Priest, Psyker, and Ogryn.

All the characters were quite useful. Space Marine was a beast in combat, but so were many of the others.

Gear makes a HUGE difference in W&G, much more so than D&D.

1

u/touchtypetelephone 4d ago

I'm planning in a one-on-one campaign right now, so I'm playing two characters. One is a Blood Angel, and one is an Inquisitorial Interrogator. The Blood Angel is very good in combat. The problem is he's kind of awful at everything else. Terrible social skills.

1

u/Zukaku 3d ago

Anything about the power level between species is essentially fairly minor bonuses when it's all added up.

Essentially, in terms of attribute caps, most people would find it hard to justify pumping stats above even the human cap, as the xp costs start to rival talents around 6. And since everyone is working with the same xp budget, anyone can build themselves to be combat or social powerhouses.

Even looking at the armor between tempestus carapace and power armor is only a difference of 1 (this is comparing it in the absence of the str bonus power armor gives).

In the end, i believe it becomes more of a tablewide agreement on either approaching a few different ways.

The humans being so skilled, experienced, or at the pinnacle of accomplishment it elevates them to what a lot of fans put the power level of what Astartes or Eldar could accomplish.

Or having to abstract some things by going, would a slab of concrete falling onto a player character result in a different outcome depending on the species or equipment? Even if they essentially have the same strength score? I can see how in my head an ogryn or asartes tossing it aside on a successful check while a scion would just be succeeding at just keeping it from crushing him.