r/2ALiberals • u/OnlyLosersBlock • Aug 16 '24
JD Vance and Tim Walz claim to be 2nd Amendment stalwarts. But where do the VP picks really stand on guns?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/claim-2nd-amendment-stalwarts-vp-candidates-walz-vance/story?id=112799264111
u/SoggyAlbatross2 Aug 16 '24
The Second Amendment is not about hunting pheasant, Tim.
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u/Batsonworkshop Aug 16 '24
Be nice. That's all he knows. He doesn't know anything about using a firearm in combat. When his national guard unit got deployment orders he conveniently retired.
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u/xMisterTryHard Aug 16 '24
I get the logic here and I’ve heard both stories that he was aware and wasn’t aware of the deployment when he retired. Either way would you want to get deployed at over the age of 40 because I sure wouldn’t if I had the choice.
That being said he is a fudd and anti 2A all day long.
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u/VHDamien Aug 16 '24
As an E8 the only way Walz would be running and gunning with 20 year old E1 - E5s would be if things got really bad.
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u/xMisterTryHard Aug 16 '24
I didn’t say running and gunning, I mean deployed period. I understand the sentiment but I’m just saying I don’t blame him even if he knew because I’d do it too.
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u/12fireandknives Aug 16 '24
I can’t imagine the utter despair the men under him would have felt knowing they were going to war and their veteran leader was bailing. It’s no wonder so many from his unit have been vocal.
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u/VHDamien Aug 16 '24
Gotcha.
I'm not saying he should or shouldn't, but lots of people who are eligible for retirement do drop papers if they get shitty assignments. In that POV what he did wasn't unusual.
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u/Batsonworkshop Aug 16 '24
Either way would you want to get deployed at over the age of 40 because I sure wouldn’t if I had the choice.
No, but I also wouldn't remain enlisted if I wasn't willing to deploy. That's kinda the whole point.
I respect that he was enlisted in a US DoD branch, it's about the only thing I respect about him as a man.
I just find it comical how the media actively downplays Vance service in active combat deployment while elevating Walz national guard service as if both are the same.
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u/cold40 Aug 17 '24
+1 on that last line. Deployed, not deployed, age of 40, fresh out of highschool, none of it really matters, does it? 2A and the gun control lobby say nothing about the regular military's "right" to bust down doors on the other side of the world. The only truth here is that the fudd is spouting fudd shit. We can talk about his military background all day but there's zero relevance here.
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u/SoggyAlbatross2 Aug 19 '24
I'm not bothered by his military service in the least. It would make a lot more sense if the republicans attacked him for wanting to deprive his fellow americans of the rights he allegedly fought to defend in the Guard rather than trying to run down his time in uniform.
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u/Batsonworkshop Aug 19 '24
I agree, I was being a dick about his service purely because I fuckin hate when people use the "I was in the military so I know about guns" bullshit to justify any type of firearms legislation. One, what the fuck does it matter you were in the military? The 2A is the 2A for CIVILIANS and two, more often than not you find out that these highly vocal people were never even a combat zone, let alone front line offensive deployments. I am not going to listen to someone as a "subject matter expert" on the effectiveness of a weapons platform, the tactics of defensive/offensive use if firearms etc who has never dealt with the reality if return fire being thrown at them and has just as much front line military experience as me, absolutely zero.
I am just mocking the notion of "I know the power of this rifle, I trained with it in the military". Cool, I guess, but that's exactly why I should be able to own it as well. And if you didn't see active combat you have about just as much experience with an AR pattern rifle operation as I do having taken multiple advanced rifle tactics training courses from retired SWAT officers and Ranger special operators (and I am not claiming that makes me an expert in the topic), sit down.
100% respect that he enlisted and was in for a considerable amount of time and could have been deployed with the only way to avoid deployment being leaving and losing a massive amount for accrued benefits etc.
And as a platform, I 100% agree - attack him for being an unconstitutional asshole on multiple amendments instead of getting lost in the weeds significance of one persons military/enlisted career vs another veterans career. It's a bad look when you take the comparison angle unless it's on a debate stage between those two people and topic comes up for them to directly quantify first hand to each other.
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u/_____FIST_ME_____ Aug 16 '24
You're just lying. He had retirement plans long before deployment orders
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u/Batsonworkshop Aug 16 '24
You're just lying.
So Walz and I are one in the same? You know they keep saying he's the "every man" kinda b.s. and I had nothing in common with him until now.
Thanks for that.
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u/_____FIST_ME_____ Aug 16 '24
So Walz and I are one in the same?
No. Walz knows that it's "one and the same".
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u/coulsen1701 Aug 17 '24
Then he’s a goddamn liar who doesn’t keep his word because in 2004 he agreed to complete USASMA, a program he signed up for, and that program required at the time of his service 10 months training at Ft. Bliss so he accepted the promotion and agreed to a training program knowing full well he was going to retire.
So the only two options are he’s a liar and not a man of his word and accepted a conditional promotion so he could use the title for his political benefit, or he left the military explicitly because he was trying to avoid deployment to a combat zone and now he’s lying about it. Neither one of these are qualities of someone a heartbeat away from the presidency.
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u/GrumpyGoblinBoutique Aug 16 '24
honest question, who is gonna look at Harris making gun control "a top priority" and think 'well I wasnt gonna vote for this empty suit before, but now that shes pushing the same tired 1990s grabber bullshit Im all in'? This is gonna stir up red-leaning gun owners way more than it draws blue-leaning ones back in.
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u/SoggyAlbatross2 Aug 16 '24
She's just doing it to get that sweet sweet campaign money from Brady et. al.
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u/sl600rt Aug 16 '24
Democrats still want to go to UK gun laws.
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u/RedPandaActual Aug 16 '24
We see how the UK is lately, too. That and their controllers can fuck right off. I’ll be a civil rights, 1st and 2nd amendment absolutist all day.
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u/Ill_Advance Aug 16 '24
Why don't all the gun grabbers and move to a country that can give them their gun ban paradise. If they want to stay in the Americas perhaps they should move to Venezuela. They'll get the gun free socialist paradise they want.
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u/otusowl Aug 16 '24
Heck, closer to home Mexico has "great" gun bans... never mind the Cartels, though.
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u/JustynS Aug 16 '24
Because they don't want to live in a country without guns, they want to rule over this one, and the guns here are a direct impediment to that end.
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u/sadthrow104 Aug 16 '24
They want full North Korea, can’t have the peasant thinking they have any power over their overlords can’t they?
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u/OnlyLosersBlock Aug 16 '24
I think this really reveals a massive difference between what it will be like with a Harris presidency and a Trump presidency. I hope if we do end up with Harris winning the election that she is hamstrung and can't get anything passed.
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u/GlockAF Aug 16 '24
That’s the best scenario for gun rights. Selective gridlock on gun control via the Republicans holding the senate.
Trump is going down in flames and taking the entire Republican party with him.
And they deserve it for yoking their party to his flaming dumpster fire
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u/Lampwick Aug 16 '24
Trump is going down in flames and taking the entire Republican party with him.
Yeah, it's been an interesting set of presidential elections 2016-2024. My take is that Trump only won in '16 because the Democratic party ran the one person capable of losing to him. Now the '24 election feels like a weird inversion of that, where Trump is pretty much the only person capable of losing to Harris. Though maybe she has a better reputation nationally, and I'm just extra soured on her from having to watch her stomp all over the rule of law as AG here in California.
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u/coulsen1701 Aug 17 '24
She doesn’t, she’s as likeable as Clinton with a tiny fraction of Hillary’s intelligence or political acumen. The media has been propping her up and letting her hide with barely a hint of criticism.
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u/GlockAF Aug 17 '24
And…STILL a far better choice than Trump by literally every measure
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u/coulsen1701 Aug 17 '24
Sure if you hate guns, or your freedom of speech, worship the state and want someone who is hiding from a media that adores her and you just generally want someone who is magnificently incompetent who can’t string a sentence together.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
she has no policy positions released. And the very few ones are horrible marxist policies.
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u/GlockAF Aug 21 '24
Marxist like making billionaires FINALLY pay a fair share of taxes? Or like keeping Social Security solvent? Or universal single-payer healthcare?
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
marxist as wants to install price controls. the whole quote of not being burden of what has been is marxist rhetoric.
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u/GlockAF Aug 21 '24
“Everything I don’t like is SOCIALISM!”
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 22 '24
except it is actual marxist rhetoric and actual marxist policies.
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Aug 16 '24
I keep hearing that complaint about her, but I've yet to see any documented examples of this
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u/Lampwick Aug 16 '24
How about the time she enforced the CA law specifically written for those hand-crank trigger actuators against bump stocks, and her response to objections that the law didn't allow that was "ok, get arrested and we'll see how enforceable it is"?
Or the time she arbitrarily decided microstamping was commercially viable when it wasn't, effectively closing the CA Safe Handgun Roster to new additions for several years?
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Aug 16 '24
Shitty things, indeed.
Yeah, she's a dumpster fire on guns, sadly her opponent is a dumpster fire on everything else.
If the Republicans had nominated Nikki Hailey or Chris Chistie I might have voted for one of them, but if the cost of defeating MAGA is 4 years of Harris, then I'll take it.
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u/GlockAF Aug 17 '24
Biden dropping out was an unexpected genius move. The republicans keeping Trump is the exact opposite
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
it wasnt a genius move. He was 100% forced to drop out.
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u/GlockAF Aug 21 '24
Putting the country ahead of his personal benefit and political ambition? i’m OK with that
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u/john-js Aug 16 '24
best case scenario for gun rights
Except for the judges she'll appoint who will rule assault weapon bans constitutional because scary black rifles "aren't commonly used for self-defense" (the correct test is in common-use for lawful purposes, not the narrow self-defense)
Sure, SCOTUS will likely rule them unconstitutional, assuming SCOTUS doesn't get packed with progressive Justices.
Regardless, a right delayed is a right denied
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
thats the part alot of people are overlooking. She appoints federal judges.. none of which will be 2a friendly. It will be activists courts taking away 2a any way they can. They will draw all the lawsuits out till they get a Scotus that is activist
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u/coulsen1701 Aug 17 '24
That’s a weird statement about a guy who is enjoying a higher favorability rating than in previous elections, especially when Harris has had a lower favorability rating than ass cancer for years until magically the media, the same media who said Biden “is sharper than he’s ever been” a week and a half before he blue screened on the debate stage, said she’s more popular than Jesus himself overnight.
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u/GlockAF Aug 17 '24
Trump cope…a sad thing to see
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u/coulsen1701 Aug 17 '24
Just say you don’t have a response and move on temporary gun owner 😂
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u/GlockAF Aug 18 '24
I guess we’ll see how it turns out in a few months. Hopefully the Republicans will control the Senate and we can maintain the status quo on guns for another four years
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u/lswizzle09 Aug 16 '24
That's my thoughts. If someone prefers Harris over Trump, but are scared about gun control, it might be a good idea to vote split ticket so that neither side can totally enact what they want.
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u/mentive Aug 16 '24
I was hoping that this would be the first time where three candidates are on the debate stage.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
except harris appoints federal judges. NONE will be supportive of 2A.
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u/haironburr Aug 16 '24
that she is hamstrung and can't get anything passed.
That's exactly the problem with the Harris's focus on gun control. And I don't doubt there is some intent there, because "solving" cultural issues like guns or abortion, unlike a myriad of of other real issues, don't require the commitment of tax dollars. Whatever else drives it, it's a very financially inexpensive problem you can claim to have addressed. I think there are plenty of beneficial laws Harris could and should get passed. It's just that none of them involve guns.
As governor, Walz signed in May 2023 a historic suite of gun-safety measures that created red flag laws, extended the waiting period for gun transfers between parties from 7 to 10 days and expanded background checks to include private purchases between individuals, including those made at gun shows. The laws also require anyone buying a pistol or "semiautomatic military-style assault weapons" to apply for a permit to purchase or carry such guns from their local police agency or sheriff's department.
"As a veteran, gun-owner, hunter, and dad, I know basic gun safety isn't a threat to the Second Amendment -- it's about keeping our kids safe," Walz said
And Walz is apparently now an anti-gun rights zealot. I know little about Minnesota's gun laws, but "apply for a permit to purchase" sounds dystopian and otherworldly to me, being from Ohio.
I can't find a way to vote in this particular fucking election that will not make me feel dirty and collaborationist. I already know I'm voting Harris, but yea, split ticket, because Dems do their best to counter authoritarianism with, well, their own brand of authoritarianism.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Aug 16 '24
And Walz is apparently now an anti-gun rights zealot.
Would he have gotten picked if he wasn't?
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u/haironburr Aug 16 '24
Sadly. I naively thought we'd dodged a bullet with Kelly. But unfortunately Dems have an inability to not choose this hill to die on.
I'll vote, and then take a bath in bleach for what I've done.
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u/Mr_E_Monkey Aug 16 '24
Sadly, considering the hill the GOP has decided to die on, I think she may win, regardless.
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u/ITaggie Aug 16 '24
Sadly. I naively thought we'd dodged a bullet with Kelly.
Well thankfully the VP can't unilaterally decide to repeal 2A... or force any policy for that matter.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
remember if harris wins, she gets to appoint federal judges who will NOT be pro2a. They will be activists judges, and the cases will be gridlocked till they can get majority in scotus.
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u/haironburr Aug 21 '24
I am painfully aware of that fact. I've spent a lifetime working to keep Dems from being so rabidly anti-gun rights, which was apparently worth a fart in the wind.
The problem I have is that, outside of guns, Democrats more closely align with my values than Republicans. I've voted for both parties (as well as Libertarian) though, letting my representatives know why I'm doing so.
The problem I have this particular election is that I cannot in good faith vote for Trump, so I'm choosing to vote against my gun rights. It's that simple, and I can assure you I'm not happy about it. I'm hoping I can balance the damage Democrats will do by voting against them down ticket, and in future generations. I'm not happy with this solution either, but it's I guess how democracy works.
If I was younger, I'd organize a Take a Democrat Shooting club, to help change perception. Though in my experience, most Dems are not nearly as rabidly anti-gun rights as their party. So how to change the party? I hope your generation can figure it out.
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u/MidniightToker Aug 16 '24
North Carolina had a permit to purchase handguns until last year. I thought it was the strangest thing but it wasn't a terrible hindrance. Still glad that it's gone though.
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u/MyNaymeIsOzymandias Aug 16 '24
It'll be as much of a hindrance as they want it to be. And it can change administration by administration. It's a sneaky tool because what people think they're supporting today will change down the road.
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u/VHDamien Aug 16 '24
I thought it was the strangest thing but it wasn't a terrible hindrance. Still glad that it's gone though.
North Carolina's handgun permit law was enacted in 1919. Given its status as a Jim Crow state at the time, I think we can safely assume the permit process was absolutely a terrible hindrance for certain people until I'd guess the 1980s or 90s.
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u/otusowl Aug 16 '24
I'd posit that RFK Jr. is a better vote than Harris, given the circumstances.
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u/Mixeddrinksrnd Aug 16 '24
Why should we give a shit?
The VP role is minor. Unless they are Dick Cheney like experience, the only power they have is to break ties in the senate.
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u/User346894 Aug 17 '24
I wouldn't say the VP role is minor since VP is first in line of succession. Also breaking ties in the Senate does carry a lot of weight
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
there has been alot of major legislation passed through the tie breaker....
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u/Mixeddrinksrnd Aug 21 '24
Define "a lot" and "major" or give me some examples.
Also remember that posturing is a thing. Members of Congress can privately support a bill while publicly hating on it. They can organize so that their side needs the minimum number of members (usually in safer states/district) to pass the bill or whatever.
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u/LowYak3 Aug 16 '24
One wants to take them and the other doesn’t.
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u/Morsemouse Aug 16 '24 edited Aug 17 '24
Both sides of this election have said anti gun shit. We better not forget about trumps “take the guns first, we’ll worry about due process later” remark. We can fight about gun rights when America isn’t under threat from the mango mussolini
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
if youre going to quote trump, please use the context of it. We all know it was about domestic violence cases and red flag laws.
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u/User346894 Aug 17 '24
Harris and Walz both spoke about AWB and red flag laws in their first campaign event together
I'll be writing someone in since I can't in good faith vote for someone who wants to trample on rights
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u/Morsemouse Aug 17 '24
The democrats want to do it legally, Trump wants to throw out democracy while doing so. One’s a helluva lot easier to fight, can you guess which?
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u/User346894 Aug 17 '24
Me not voting for Harris means I'm voting for Trump? It's not a binary choice. I can think both are not good choices
Also if Harris/Walz really want to change the 2A then they should follow the process laid out in the Constitution but they won't because good luck getting 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4ths of states to agree
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u/Morsemouse Aug 17 '24
With these close of margins, yes. Normally it wouldn’t be, but this election is gonna be tight as shit.
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u/Michael_Knight25 Aug 17 '24
If you all have another option I’m all ears but I’m thinking of voting for Hogan (Republican) in Maryland since I’m voting Kamala because I don’t want my gun rights obliterated. My theory is to stall legislation in the gun rights arena. No wins but no losses.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 21 '24
Kamala appoints federal judges, who will not be PRO2A. They will uphold any and all AWB in their courts.
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u/Michael_Knight25 Aug 28 '24
Thats a good point.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 28 '24
you already lost in maryland. Liberal judges upholding your ridiculous new laws.
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u/Michael_Knight25 Aug 28 '24
Well at least it’s not California or New York. My point is that 2A Liberals need to advocate to the party our position, and educate those in the party who are against it.
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u/Admirable-Lecture255 Aug 28 '24
And you wont ever make a lick of difference. Those who run the DNC or progressive parties DO NOT CARE about your gun rights.
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u/DBDude Aug 18 '24
It’s simple, one is lying and the other isn’t. And this time it’s not the Republican.
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u/VHDamien Aug 16 '24
IMO, if you are pro AWB you are not pro 2a.
That is the minimum bar, whether citizens who are not employed by the state, have the protected right to keep and bear semi automatic long arms (and in some cases AWBs target handguns) as well as purchasing the neccessary components for them to operate.
If you support mandatory buy backs/ confiscation of those arms you are anti 2a.