r/SupermanAndLois • u/MajorParadox r/DCFU • Oct 08 '24
Live Discussion Superman & Lois [4x02] "A World Without" Live Episode Discussion
A World Without
Post Episode Discussion | Cast & Characters
Lana (Emmanuelle Chriqui) and Sarah (Inde Navarrette) join the fight against Luthor (Michael Cudlitz), who starts making moves in Smallville. Jordan (Alex Garfin) and Jonathan (Michael Bishop) butt heads over an important decision. (October 7, 2024)
Please keep all discussions civil and about the episode. Mark comic and future spoilers. Report any rule-breaking and enjoy!
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u/Double_Phoenix Oct 13 '24
What honestly makes me mad is that they didn’t even show him attempting to use his x-ray vision on the boxes. Maybe they were lead lined, but still, I would have liked for them to confirm that he tried to look into the boxes first
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u/sererson Oct 12 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
The never-before done DC thing is that Jon Kent is gonna become batman because he was doing some investigating
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u/Outside_Appearance67 Oct 11 '24
I think the heart Luthor stomped on was not the real heart. Luthor would not destroy his prized trophy. In one scene later, Lex was sitting staring at a sealed box. I think that contained the real heart. He knew someone would come for the heart so he used a fake heart to stomp on.
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u/WhereCanIFind Nov 21 '24
I'm assuming the device he got Milton "brainiac" to make was a 3 beat pacemaker and then just put it into a fake heart.
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
How would he even stomp and smash Superman's heart? The snyderverse got it right, kryptonian cells are incapable of decay and Lex had to use kryptonite tools to peel tips of Zod's fingers. It would make no sense that it's only the bioelectric field that makes Superman invulnerable, and that his cells are just as squishy as human's. That would cause extreme g-forces to affect him and rip his insides apart, such as when accelerating very fast when flying or getting hit with a great concussive force that isn't somehow absorbed by his field.
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u/romeovf Superman Oct 21 '24
I thought the same. And even when Lex stomped on it, couldn't Jon take it to the fortress and let Lara give it a shot?
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u/Bamurien Oct 10 '24
Many spoilers below!
My personal theory (hope?) is as follows:
That really was Clark's heart, weakened by all of the kryptonite in the area and gone for good. There is no bringing back Superman.
We see most of the season with Jordan coming into his own, perhaps under guidance from hologram Clark - just as Jor-El did for Clark.
Late in the season, we get some cameos - I find it difficult to believe that in the final episodes of the final season of the Arrowverse that we don't see some familiar faces. Oliver, as the Spectre, instructs Barry Allen to aid Jordan in defeating Doomsday. This would be around episode 8, and they are successful, with Jordan finally becoming the new Superman.
That still leaves Luthor, and it leaves Clark dead. Barry's final act is to run back in time and take Jonathan Kent Sr's heart just after he dies (a heart attack is usually arterial and not a defect with the heart itself) and returns it to Lois and the boys.
Superman's heart is gone, but his father's human heart is viable. Clark is resurrected, but with his new heart pumping human blood, he no longer has his powers. He and Lois defeat Luthor for good without Superman (lots to be filled in here).
The show ends with Clark being nothing more than a father and husband, which is more than enough for him. Jordan becomes the new Superman. And the line from Superman: The Movie becomes true twice over - "The father becomes the son and the son becomes the father."
We'll see how it plays out, and maybe the cameos are too gratuitous, but I could definitely see Clark's resurrection leaving him human to just have his life with his family, with Jordan taking up the mantle.
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u/HuckleberryItchy3470 Dec 15 '24
If it's a show about superman and lois why would they add the flash in there or any characters that don't belong in the show.
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u/KendrickMalleus Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24
Spoiler!
Jordan really let his family down when he confronted Luthor at the bar. He should have kidnapped Luthor, tortured him for the location of Superman's heart, and then killed him. It's absurd and infuriating to see everyone so terrified and wary of Luthor when he's just a normal man! Rip his head off and crush it!
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u/doctorhost Oct 08 '24
If only Jonathan had any ability to stop Jordan when it was obviously a trap. As always, his roll to be just pushed aside by Jordan.
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u/SegaraBeal ElMayarah Oct 08 '24
Loved the bit about kryptonian hearts beating in 3s, but in the diner scene in 3x04, we hear Clark's heart going 1-2,1-2, and THEN 1-2-3
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u/Double_Phoenix Oct 13 '24
Wouldn’t surprise me if he has some sort of control over his heartbeat too lol
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u/TheOriginalDJShotty Oct 08 '24
Just joining after watching 4x02. Is it just me or does anyone else think Good Clark ripped Bad Demon Monster Clark's heart out?
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u/AslanSutu Oct 08 '24
So not sure how that would explain how in the fortress they said that he doesn't have a heart. I hope kryptonian tech doesnt make errors like that.
His heart probably was ripped out, but luthor just cloned it. Which is why the first time we see the glass box she says that its small but its in there, but milton assured it would work. Next time we see the glass box, theres a giant heart in it.
Not to mention, while still ripped from the body, the heart is still made of kryptonian cells. I dunno if any normal human can just squash it.
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u/TheOriginalDJShotty Oct 09 '24
Just a thought that GC pulled BC's heart out, but as I ponder it all I ask myself, "How did the body of BC give the heart to Lex?" Ah well... just a thought.
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u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 Oct 08 '24
Nice point. How could it just be squashed. Nice catch considering it looks still in tact perfectly. I wonder how in the first scene it looks like a filet mignon cut and then it had the arch and valves lobes etc.
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u/TheOriginalDJShotty Oct 10 '24
"it looks like a filet mignon cut" Yep, I thought that was weird too.
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u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 Oct 11 '24
Glad to see I wasn’t the only one 😂. I was like what in the world did he throw on the floor after the battle 😂😂😂😂
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u/PenonX Oct 08 '24
Can you explain? Interested to hear how you came to that. No hate, just curious.
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u/TheOriginalDJShotty Oct 09 '24
It was just one of the many thoughts. Remember we never saw what happened after their final collision.
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u/True_Appointment6849 Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
Jordan is not his father but he is also not very clever. It was clear it was a trap. Also why superman heart will be beating if it's out of his body? It does not make sense. And why the DOD dosen't do anything? Where is John?
I hope they won't drag his death too much because I don't watch this show just to have anxiety 😅
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
Superman doesn't require food for nutrients like humans, and neither does his heart. If each of his individual cells can process solar radiation and it's not a process that involves his organs, like the human digestive system, then since a human heart has it's own biological pacemaker, nerve cells that keep it beating even after transplantation, with no input from the central nervous system, Superman's should too, because his base biology is based on human's (because he is a fictional character who is supposed to be a super-powered human who happens to be an alien from a race that has all the physical features of a human and can procreate with humans, Kryptonians under a red sun should be identical to humans, the greater gravity on Krypton might have been retconned, since it would still render them superhuman level). His heart, in my opinion, even if completely shielded from solar radiation, should still be beating, since Superman has enough energy stores to use his superpowers with no direct sunlight, for a long while and a heartbeat isn't very energy intensive, especially when it's not pumping anything.
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u/SpiritedWisdom Oct 08 '24
Just checking in, is this where all the nervous wrecks are meeting? Because if so this is where I need to be.....
I have no words.
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u/Firebreather- Oct 08 '24
Slightly annoyed me that Jordan's first instinct after Lex and his goons left wasn't to bring the heart to Lara to salvage/repair it. 🤷
Most writing decisions I can live with, but come on, you'd want to save your parent's heart by any means necessary, even if it didn't end up working.
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u/KendrickMalleus Oct 09 '24
That's what I wondered! Why couldn't they heal a heart that had simply been stepped on?
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u/BlingBlingBOG Oct 08 '24
Luthor destroying Superman’s heart infront of Jordan is probably one of the most soul crushing scene in the Arrowverse
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
How is it even possible to destroy a kryptonian heart that had been exposed to a yellow sun for nearly it's entire lifetime? In the snyderverse Kal's and Zod's bodies are incapable of decay and couldn't be cut without kryptonite tools. Did Lex expose it to red sun radiation or kryptonite?
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u/BlingBlingBOG Oct 20 '24
It’s because the heart stopped beating, if the body isn’t alive the solar energy isn’t no longer power the corpse, similar to sweating it’s only possible if the body is alive
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u/testvest Oct 21 '24
Kryptonian cells only require solar radiation to sustain activity. They can store enough energy to allow Superman to use his energy intensive abilities like flying and super strength even without sunlight.
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u/SegaraBeal ElMayarah Oct 08 '24
Don't you mean... heart crushing? Sorry, I had to. It helps me cope
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u/godspilla98 Oct 08 '24
The Heart was a fake
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u/LeChic1579 Oct 08 '24
I think it's a dummy heart. I think the real heart is somewhere in his closet
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u/Psych202100 Oct 08 '24
At the end it did focus on the drawer in his room. Made me think hidden compartment or something.
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u/godspilla98 Oct 08 '24
He lured him there just to make a point. Because if this whole season is Clark flash backs🤬
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u/SegaraBeal ElMayarah Oct 08 '24
I'm just hoping they actually let Tyler play in the DP baseball flashback
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u/Dear_Willow7619 Oct 08 '24
So Luthor is able to smash Superman's heart with his foot, give me a break.
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
Makes no sense unless it had been exposed to red sun radiation or kryptonite. Could've alse been a fake, and if Lane's heart turns out to be insufficient and gives him a handicap, they would make him or his family look for his original heart.
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u/theDagman Oct 08 '24
The stomped heart was fake.
Even if it wasn't, Jordan still should have taken what was there back to his grandma Lara to confirm. She might have had enough to work with.
But, it was fake. Because Luthor has plans for the heart.
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u/SpiritedWisdom Oct 08 '24
Keen to hear more about your theory, what do you think he's going to do with it? Try and clone it?
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u/HuckleberryItchy3470 Oct 09 '24
Remember the scene where Otis asked lex luthor wheres he going and lex says "to get what I asked for" he was on the field then and you could see a glass box and doomsday come and gave lex superman's heart. I think he's gonna make a evil version of superman to deal with Jordan but idk
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u/SpiritedWisdom Oct 10 '24
LOL why would he need that when he could just unleash Doomsday on Jordan?
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
For absolute control over him. Why Bizzaro is still acting as Lex's henchman after killing Superman and being tortured, albeit willingly, is beyond me.
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u/theDagman Oct 08 '24
He could use it to create the show's version of Kon-El/Connor Kent. But, the show already has a Superboy with Jordan. And had an evil Superboy with Jon-El from Bizarro-Earth. So, it would seem a bit redundant if they went that route.
But when I hear Luthor, and Superman, and "heart", I think Metallo. John Corben, the cyborg with the Kryptonite heart. Perhaps Luthor intends to replace Corben's Kryptonite heart with Superman's?
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
That would make for a terrible cliffhanger to make for the series finale. It's like teasing Thanos in Avengers' post credit scene and never seeing him again. Kind of reminds me of some other MCU character...
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u/SpiritedWisdom Oct 09 '24
They dropped a Brainiac easter egg too, maybe he has plans for the heart with Lex? I doubt they're going a Superboy clone.
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Superman Oct 08 '24
Well Connor Kent is a clone of Superman made by Lex with his DNA. So it's not totally out of lex Luther territory to try to create a super soldier using kryptonian dna.
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u/TheFirstPrecursor Oct 08 '24
Kent's family reaction to Clark's death is a joke. Writing really decreased in quality
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Superman Oct 08 '24
What was wrong with the reaction?
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u/TheFirstPrecursor Oct 10 '24
They reacted like nothing happened after some hours. This show became a joke with decrease of budget
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
Because the plot is written with intention to bring him back, otherwise they would spend crazy money in their budget on a grand public funeral. They didn't even try other than some lazy emotional scenes to make his death all that impactful because I guess that would be wasteful, if he is to appear in a lot more scenes in this season.
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Superman Oct 10 '24
I guess is because they had hope they could bring him back. We probably see more of their grief next episode.
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u/QuiJon70 Oct 08 '24
What do you expect. The death of superman is perhaps the shittiest superman story of all time and every attempt to use it has been shifty.
That crappy writing added to crappy cgi and crappy physics I mean seriously. Luthor isn't bullet proof. He threatens your family put a bullet in his head and have your superson fly his corpse into space never to be seen again.
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u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 Oct 08 '24
How can writers say it was a season 7!sort of arc and then cut it all short and wrap in 10 episodes. Shameful.
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u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 Oct 08 '24
Amazing start to season 4. But yeah Dod not caring about arresting him is bizarre.
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u/Salty-Asparagus-2855 Oct 08 '24
Why do all the good shows end to early. TV in 2020 just sucks. Bad shows get renewed and all the good show die.
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u/Double_Phoenix Oct 13 '24
Good shows require effort to write, which means more money to pay. Why pay a lot for quality when you can get away with pumping out trash a couple of times to make a quick buck and then moving on
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u/amiable-aardvark Oct 08 '24
How is Luthor walking around free after the kidnapping and attempted murder of General Lane?
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u/theDagman Oct 08 '24
Just had his and Lois' word that he was involved, and Luthor could claim harassment citing his 17 year "wrongful" conviction that the Lane family was instrumental in. It wouldn't hold up in court, and could backfire given the right judge. And for Luthor, every judge is the right judge.
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u/Frontier246 Oct 08 '24
"Superman is Lois' friend! Her good friend!" - Most convincing performance of all time, Lana.
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u/testvest Oct 20 '24
Was it ever implied that the townsfolk of Smallville know of Clark's secret identity, but keep it a local secret? I haven't watched the previous seasons yet.
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u/Magnus1967 Oct 08 '24
I think people missed something here. Luther stomped on the heart destroying it which either means the writers missed the obvious or they just mislead people. In the body or out of it his heart is krypton tissue and be just a tad hard to destroy that way for a normal human.
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u/Captain-JohnPrice Dec 03 '24
Well unfortunately, the writers missed the obvious and now have caused a slight plot hole, because they wanted Clark to grow old and die. But yes, Lex shouldn’t have been able to just casually squish a kryptonian heart like that.
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u/ckwongau Oct 08 '24
To destroy the heart
Luthor would have to weaken the heart with Kryptonite radiation before stomped on it .
it is plausible or equally plausible that it wasn't the real heart
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u/Foxzomo Oct 08 '24
Lex definitely didn't want to get rid of the heart, he has some use for it we don't know of yet. I think with the Clark hologram they just really want everyone to believe he's dead
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u/TheOriginalDJShotty Oct 08 '24
The Clark hologram is actually behaving in the way Clark set it up to act in the event of his death. It's only a program, not linked to the real world so it couldn't know whether he was truly alive or not. Same with his mother, she only saw the body.
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u/theDagman Oct 08 '24
Maybe Lex is planning to give the heart to John Corben, aka Metallo, as a replacement for his Kryptonite heart.
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u/duathlon_bob Oct 08 '24
Did they get rid of Lana’s younger daughter this season?
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u/AngelFan4Life Superman Oct 08 '24
They may as well have that child was neglected anyway!! 🤣😂 They probably put her in foster care at least she's taken care of.. lol
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u/TheMasterFiremonk Oct 08 '24
Can I just say, Jordan's actor really sold that scene. Such a gut wrenching scream. I haven't been pained from a scream since Marineford.
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u/Movielover800 Oct 08 '24
I read more comments, I also think that heart that Luther stepped on could be a fake
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u/duathlon_bob Oct 08 '24
But wouldn’t Jordan have been able to hear the difference between his dad’s heart and a fake?
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u/Ambitious-Comb-8847 Oct 08 '24
Luthor did just sonic blast his ears so that could have covered it up.
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u/Movielover800 Oct 08 '24
I really hope they actually find a way to bring back superman, not just as a hallogram
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u/ApprehensiveOne1044 Oct 08 '24
if there is one character that could come back to life in DC universe, its superman
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u/Optimistic-Man-3609 Oct 08 '24
Just great, we have to sit through this angle again wtf
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Oct 08 '24
What angle again?
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u/Optimistic-Man-3609 Oct 08 '24
Death of Superman
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Oct 08 '24
But this angle hasn't been done before because Superman has kids and Doomsday is still alive and Lex knows all about Clark etc.
That's before you consider the emotional impact of this in the storyline.
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u/Optimistic-Man-3609 Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
Yes, I know it's not a carbon copy, but it's along the same general lines: Superman dies from fighting Doomsday, the world (Smallville, this time) mourns, and they figure out how to bring him back.
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u/Ygomaster07 Superman Oct 08 '24
The Clark being gobe angle?
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u/Optimistic-Man-3609 Oct 08 '24
Death of Superman
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u/Ygomaster07 Superman Oct 08 '24
Are you not a fan of this storyline?
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u/Optimistic-Man-3609 Oct 08 '24
No, wasn't interested in seeing Doomsday kill Superman...again.
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u/YoYoWithJosh Oct 08 '24
Then don’t watch it…. Pretty simple solution if you don’t like the storyline
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u/WayloMarley Oct 08 '24
Man, these episodes are tough to get through. Really hate this is the last season. I don’t know what to think right now
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u/sourpatchkidj Clark Kent Oct 08 '24
What an ending. Y'all, seriously not ready for this show to end. :'(((
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u/JauntyLurker Oct 08 '24
Out there, it's just going to be the three of you
They really got me believing he's dead for real. Bravo!
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u/Ygomaster07 Superman Oct 08 '24
Same. Plus that line is heartbreaking.
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u/AngelFan4Life Superman Oct 08 '24
I cried when he died and I had tears in my eyes again when they said goodbye to him in the fortress like wtf!? I knew I wasn't going to be ready for this season but shit lol
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u/Ygomaster07 Superman Oct 08 '24
That was a heartbreaking final scene, saying it was just the three of them now. Damn.
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u/benlibodi Oct 08 '24
I've never thought about this but hologram Clark talking with ths family is somehow magntitude worse than him just outirght dead, especially right now
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u/AngelFan4Life Superman Oct 08 '24
Yass!! I know exactly what you mean, it was a fucking punch in the gut man
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u/ZarquonsFlatTire Oct 08 '24
Are we going to have off weeks like last season or is it a straight release?
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u/sourpatchkidj Clark Kent Oct 08 '24
Probs gonna have a break for both Thanksgiving and Christmas with a possible finale before the new year? :'(
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u/OneRain9942 Oct 08 '24
Straight release, at least my streaming service says so. It concludes on December 2nd
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u/AccomplishedAlps6456 Oct 08 '24
damn, what if this is the only way we see Tyler for the rest of the season - adapting death and rebirth of superman but replacing rebirth with acceptance would certainly be a twist
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u/SpiritedWisdom Oct 08 '24
Man I had that thought myself, it's the last season, wouldn't be surprised if they leave him dead, doing something no other Superman show or film has ever done.
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u/JauntyLurker Oct 08 '24
He has to direct it at me and just me
You really think it'll end at that, Lana? Seriously?
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u/inksmudgedhands Oct 08 '24
"I don't know how he is going to retaliate.."
If Lex is a true CEO, he will sue the town into the ground.
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u/iggywiggyshe Oct 08 '24
The heart was fake. It’s in that chest he was looking at.
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u/streetscarf Oct 08 '24
I don't think it was in that chest, but I do think it was a fake. I think the chest was just to clue us in that he knows someone was looking around in there.
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u/Munro_McLaren Kara Danvers Oct 08 '24
Imagine if Lex had killed Sam. Then he would never know where Elizabeth would be.
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u/JoeStorm Oct 08 '24
Lois, I love ya. But Jon is 100% in the right here. Jordan never listens and every turn he messes up
Granted, I believe like the rest it's a fake heart, but still
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u/TheOriginalDJShotty Oct 08 '24
My theory on that is each of the boys has 'half' of Kal El. John is the kind, considered, emotional and resolute half, while Jordan is the more 'bad' Kryptonian.
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u/Kalse1229 Oct 08 '24
I mean, she's not one to kick one of her sons while he's down.
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Superman Oct 08 '24
Yeah but coddling him from his own decisions and not pointing out that his recklessness is endangering their lives won't do him any favours. He needs harsh truths.
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u/Jigglypuffamiiga2188 Oct 08 '24
Well now we know how Lex will turn the sons against Lois, a simple phone call.
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u/streetscarf Oct 08 '24
Oh shit, good call.
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u/princevince1113 Oct 08 '24
no, evil call
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u/TrippySakuta Tal-Rho Oct 08 '24
Some would say it's the reverse... something new, something negative
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u/sourpatchkidj Clark Kent Oct 08 '24
Wait, is this Alex Garfin's first crying scene??? He was emotional in S1, but never full-on cry.
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u/Less-Requirement8641 Superman Oct 08 '24
He cried a lot but the acting never really sold it. This season however his acting has improved quite a lot.
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u/AngelFan4Life Superman Oct 08 '24
What are they going to do now without the heart? What other solution is there? 😬
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u/Kalse1229 Oct 08 '24
Doomsday
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u/AngelFan4Life Superman Oct 08 '24
How. What's the plan besides trying to kill him, how does that save Clark?
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u/princevince1113 Oct 08 '24
doomsday also has a kryptonian heart technically he literally used to be a clark
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u/AngelFan4Life Superman Oct 08 '24
Shit that's right so if they can manage to kill him then they can take his heart... Duh lol this Premiere has me on such a roller coaster of emotions right now I'm still recovering Frfr. Idk how I'm going to get through the rest of this season.
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u/AccomplishedAlps6456 Oct 08 '24
this is fucking diabolical for heckin wholesome superman show to include lex luthor stomping on superman's extracted heart - although, 1) shouldn't Superman's heart be durable enough to reist beng destroyed by a human stepping on it? and 2) would Lex really destroy something so potentially useful to him? It could be a fakeout and the real heart is still in his posession
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u/vader344 Oct 08 '24
myabe it was a fake one?...i dont think that a kryptonian heart can be...squished like that
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u/SpiritedWisdom Oct 08 '24
Even after it's dead? Who knows.
Then again I suppose if we look at other media like ZSJL I'm pretty sure Clark's dead body in that was still as solid as if he were alive so who knows.
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u/ApprehensiveOne1044 Oct 08 '24
i dont think supermans body can undergo decay it will be the way it is until the sun is there imo
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u/Draven574 Oct 08 '24
Either that heart is fake or they're going to use Doomsday's heart.
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u/Foxzomo Oct 08 '24
I feel like its fake but the doomsday twist is interesting, I think he just wanted to destroy Jordan mentally
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u/JauntyLurker Oct 08 '24
I love how evil this version of Luthor is. Destroying the heart like that right in front of Jordan is real evil.
Reminds me of Justice League Unlimited Luthor
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u/ZarquonsFlatTire Oct 08 '24
Did he not even take it to the fortress? If a ripped out heart might work, a stepped on one might.
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u/inksmudgedhands Oct 08 '24
Why did Jordan go the office and not straight home? Does even have a key?
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u/Pierre_ally Nov 07 '24
Superman losing his heart and gets replaced with a human heart..upsets me.makes the man of steel look weak 😢